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Over the last few years I have read much on the issue of Blu-ray player profiles from various insiders and websites and based on what I have read have made this thread about them. There is one Blu-ray spec and in it there are four profiles including an audio only profile that does not require BD-J or video playback since it was made only for audio playback. Leaving out the audio only profile from this thread there were three player profiles made for video playback. After October 31st of 2007 all new Blu-ray players had to meet the requirements for at least Bonus View though older Blu-ray players could continue to be sold. Here are the requirements for the three Blu-ray player profiles:

Profile 1.0:


64 KB of built in persistent memory required

no additional persistent memory capability required

no Virtual Package support for persistent memory required

no outlining support for text based subtitles required

no PiP decoding required

no secondary audio decoding required

Bonus View:


64 KB of built in persistent memory required

256 MB of persistent memory capability required

Virtual Package support for persistent memory required

outlining support for text based subtitles required

PiP decoding required

secondary audio decoding required

BD-Live:


64 KB of built in persistent memory required

1 GB of persistent memory capability required

Virtual Package support for persistent memory required

outlining support for text based subtitles required

PiP decoding required

secondary audio decoding required

internet capability required


Frequently Asked Questions (last updated March 8, 2009)

1. What are the three Blu-ray player profiles called?

In the technical documents the profiles were called Profile 1.0, Profile 1.1, and Profile 2.0. Profile 1.0 was called Grace Period Profile and Initial Standard Profile by the BDA workgroups. Profile 1.1 was called Final Standard Profile by the BDA workgroups and will be marketed as Bonus View. Profile 2.0 was called BD-Live by the BDA workgroups and will be marketed as BD-Live.

2. Why are there three Blu-ray player profiles?

All three player profiles for Blu-ray were made back at the time the Blu-ray specs were originally made. At that time it was known that to cost effectively implement certain features such as PiP decoding would require the development of new decoding chips that would be capable of dual stream video decoding. The plan was to eventually replace the Profile 1.0 specs with the Bonus View specs by requiring all new players released after a certain date to meet the requirements for Bonus View. The BD-Live specs were to be optional for those consumers who wanted to connect their Blu-ray player to the internet.

3. Is BD-J a requirement for all Blu-ray players?

Yes, all three Blu-ray player profiles require BD-J support and will be capable of normal BD-J interactivity for menus and games. Note though that certain extras might require the player to be Bonus View or BD-Live compliant if they require a feature such as PiP decoding or internet capability.

4. Should I get a Bonus View or BD-Live player?

That depends. Though stand alone Profile 1.0 players will always be capable of playing the movie itself and normal BD-J interactivity they will not be capable of certain extras such as PiP decoding. If you are interested in those extras than it would be best to choose a stand alone Blu-ray player that supports them.

5. Could a Profile 1.0 player be updated to Bonus View or BD-Live?

None of the stand alone Blu-ray players that were released before October of 2007 have the necessary hardware for that. The PS3 which did have the necessary hardware was updated to BD-Live with Firmware 2.20 on March 24 of 2008.

6. What is BD-Live Ready?

A Blu-ray player that has all of the necessary hardware for BD-Live, will initially ship with Bonus View capability, and later on will receive a firmware update for BD-Live.

7. What is PiP decoding?

This allows for a PiP (secondary) video stream to be decoded. One of the applications of this is a cast and crew commentary of the movie.

8. What is secondary audio decoding?

This allows for the mixing of two different audio tracks. For instance this allows for the audio stream included with a PiP video stream to be mixed into the primary audio stream.

9. What is persistent memory?

Persistent memory allows for the long term storage of data on the player and depending on the capabilities of the specific player can be done using built in flash memory, a hard drive, network storage, and external flash memory. All Blu-ray players are required to have at least 64 KB of built in persistent memory. The Bonus View profile requires the player to be capable of supporting at least 256 MB of persistent memory. The BD-Live profile requires the player to be capable of supporting at least 1 GB of persistent memory. For both Bonus View and BD-Live this can be done with either built in memory or with user provided memory such as a memory card or a USB flash drive. Note that all of the Bonus View players released so far can support more than 1 GB of persistent memory so in practice the only difference between Bonus View and BD-Live players has been internet capability.

10. What is Virtual Package support?

The Virtual Package allows for new content (audio/video content, audio/subtitle tracks, BD-J games, etc...) to be added to those Blu-ray titles designed to check the persistent storage of a player to see if there is any content for that title. If there is it can be added to the title through the use of new menus allowing for the seamless addition of that content.

11. What is outlining support for text based subtitles?

In addition to graphic based subtitles Blu-ray also allows for the use of text based subtitles allowing for easier control of where they are placed on the screen. This can benefit 2.35 aspect ratio display setups. Text based subtitles though when directly displayed can be hard to read so outlining support, changing their color/shading based on the background, is usually done to make it easier to read them.

12. What decoding chips are known to be capable of decoding PiP?

The Sigma Designs SMP8634 Revision C, the Panasonic UniPhier, the Broadcom BCM7440, the Horizon Hz7220, and the NEC EMMA3 are five decoding chips that are known to be capable of decoding PiP.

13. Have any Bonus View players been officially announced yet?

Yes, the following is a list of officially announced Bonus View players for North America:


Denon DVD-1800BD

Denon DVD-2500BTC

Denon DVD-3800BDCI

ezGear BluCobra

Funai NB500

Insignia NS-BRDVD

JVC TH-SB100

JVC XV-PB1

LG BH200

Magnavox NB500MG9

Marantz BD8002

Memorex MVBD-2510

Onkyo DV-BD606

Panasonic DMP-BD30

Philips BDP-7200

Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD

Pioneer Elite BDP-51FD

Samsung BD-UP5000

Sharp BD-HP21U

Sharp BD-HP50U

Sherwood BDP-5003

Sylvania NB500SL9

Yamaha BD-S2900

14. Have any BD-Live players been officially announced yet?

Yes, the following is a list of officially announced BD-Live players for North America:


Cambridge Audio 640BD

LG BD300

LG BD370

LG BD390

Oppo BDP-S83

Panasonic DMP-B15

Panasonic DMP-BD35

Panasonic DMP-BD50

Panasonic DMP-BD55

Panasonic DMP-BD60

Panasonic DMP-BD70V

Panasonic DMP-BD80

Pioneer BDP-120

Pioneer BDP-320

Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD

Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD

Playstation 3

Samsung BD-P1500

Samsung BD-P1600

Samsung BD-P2550

Samsung BD-P3600

Samsung BD-P4600

Sharp BD-HP16U

Sharp BD-HP22U

Sherwood BDP-6003

Sony BDP-S350

Sony BDP-S360

Sony BDP-S550

Sony BDP-S560

Sony BDP-S5000ES

Vizio VBR100
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 /forum/post/0


Awesome post! Very informative and should be a sticky.

Absolutely. I would also suggest that in lieu of "current stand alone Blu-ray (players)", we list the models since "current" is a moving target. Eventually, we'll end up with players which are 1.0 only, 1.1 only etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 /forum/post/0


Awesome post! Very informative and should be a sticky.

Thanks, and I will ask if that can be done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR /forum/post/0


Absolutely. I would also suggest that in lieu of "current stand alone Blu-ray (players)", we list the models since "current" is a moving target. Eventually, we'll end up with players which are 1.0 only, 1.1 only etc.

Good point, though instead of listing all the stand alone Blu-ray players for now I will just give a date for when the FAQ was last updated. Also if the thread becomes a sticky I will update the FAQ as needed.
 

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Yes, great idea for the thread, it definitely needs to be a sticky. This info is particularly useful to the newcomers who did not follow all of the Blu-Ray developments over the last few months. Good job, Richard.
 

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Thanks for posting this, had this been posted much sooner, I might have gone BD first. I, like many fence sitters, was concerned about the 'unfinished' appearance of the BD spec.


I ended up buying the BDP-S300 because it fit the bill now and was priced well, imo. This just makes me more comfortable about my purchase.


Thanks
 

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Yes I would agree this needs to be a sticky. We need this with an always updated list of players that support each standard.
 

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Excellent information Richard. I thank you as the need for profiles and the differences between them haven't been real clear up until now. At least to me they haven't.



With profile 1.1 and secondary audio decoding being a requirement. Does this mean the media will force decoding to be done on the player since the player will have the hardware necessary (similar to advanced authoring on HD-DVD) or will profile 1.1 allow bitstream audio transfer over HDMI 1.3(w/ SiL9134 transmitter) if the player also has that hardware?
 

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Great post Richard! Its helped me understand that I don't need anything beyond 1.0 for our BD movie viewing habits and that our current BD player will be just fine.
 

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Sorry to bother, but in the interests of correctness, this post from TalkStr8t makes it clear that BD-Live does not include the concept of PiP.

You can have a BD-Video 1.0 player with BD-Live, a BD-Video 1.1 Player with BD-Live, and a BD-Video 1.1 Player without BD-Live.


You might want to also mention that BD-Live is an optional profile, and so buyers need to make sure they know what they're getting when they buy a player.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru /forum/post/0


With profile 1.1 and secondary audio decoding being a requirement. Does this mean the media will force decoding to be done on the player since the player will have the hardware necessary (similar to advanced authoring on HD-DVD) or will profile 1.1 allow bitstream audio transfer over HDMI 1.3(w/ SiL9134 transmitter) if the player also has that hardware?

That is a very good question and unfortunately I do now know the answer to that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilian /forum/post/0


Sorry to bother, but in the interests of correctness, this post from TalkStr8t makes it clear that BD-Live does not include the concept of PiP.

I believe TalkStr8t was simply trying to explain what he considers the main feature that makes the BD-Live player profile unique. Also he has said in this post , this post , this post , and a few other posts that the BD-Live player profile requires everything in the BD-Video 1.1 player profile, 1 GB of persistent storage, and internet capability. Note that I have also heard this about the BD-Live player profile from a few other insiders as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilian /forum/post/0


You might want to also mention that BD-Live is an optional profile, and so buyers need to make sure they know what they're getting when they buy a player.

Which is exactly the reason why I made this thread. Also from what I have heard BD-Live players will literally be marketed as "BD-Live players" and if that is so than it should be pretty easy to know which Blu-ray players support it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul /forum/post/0


I believe TalkStr8t was simply trying to explain what he considers the main feature that makes the BD-Live player profile unique. Also he has said in this post , this post , this post , and a few other posts that the BD-Live player profile requires everything in the BD-Video 1.1 player profile, 1 GB of persistent storage, and internet capability. Note that I have also heard this about the BD-Live player profile from a few other insiders as well.

I stand corrected. Having done a bit more digging, it does look like your list is correct, sorry about that. Ignore my comment in the other thread about technical inaccuracies in that case
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul /forum/post/0


requirements

6. Are the HD DVD player requirements all mandatory?
Not quite (HD-DVD attack omitted)

Why do you have to resort to attacking HD-DVD here? Can't you just explain the Blu-ray profiles?

What does "not quite" mean? Please clarify.


Note: so the author does not begin to attack me also, I must say that the Disney Blu-ray discs are truly first rate and a joy to watch.

All I'm saying is cool it on the attacks and write clearly "when explaining in detail"
 

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Discussion Starter #16

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Why do you have to resort to attacking HD-DVD here?

What exactly is in that paragraph that you think is an attack against HD DVD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Can't you just explain the Blu-ray profiles?

It makes sense to understand the issue of HD PiP decoding in both HD formats since it helps provide insight into why the Blu-ray player profiles were made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


What does "not quite" mean? Please clarify.

It meant "no" in the context that I used it though for the sake of clarity I have replaced it with the word "no".


Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Note: so the author does not begin to attack me also,

reincarnate, there is no need at all for these negative comments against me and I hope that you can make any further posts in this thread without them.
 

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The main rule of this forum is "If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on."


I AM here for Blu-ray to learn as your title indicates:

"Blu-ray player profiles explained in detail"


Lets take the high road with this thread and stay focused on the subject matter and don't give anyone an excuse to go off track. Thank you!


Now I own a PS3 and will be buying a second player. I need to know if I should just buy another PS3 or whatever else might be better. Help me to make an informed and intelligent choice. Thank you again!
 

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Discussion Starter #18

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Lets take the high road with this thread and stay focused on the subject matter and don't give anyone an excuse to go off track. Thank you!

Would you mind than removing the comment you made after "Not quite" from the quote in your last post? What was pointed out in that paragraph is completely true and as such I don't think that comment was fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


Now I own a PS3 and will be buying a second player. I need to know if I should just buy another PS3 or whatever else might be better. Help me to make an informed and intelligent choice. Thank you again!

Well if you are referring to BD-Video 1.1 or BD-Live than the PS3 would be the most likely player that could be upgraded by firmware update though nothing has ever been officially announced about that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/0


The main rule of this forum is "If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on."


I AM here for Blu-ray to learn as your title indicates:

"Blu-ray player profiles explained in detail"


Lets take the high road with this thread and stay focused on the subject matter and don't give anyone an excuse to go off track. Thank you!


Now I own a PS3 and will be buying a second player. I need to know if I should just buy another PS3 or whatever else might be better. Help me to make an informed and intelligent choice. Thank you again!

if you plan to use the uncompressed pcm outputs the ps3 will not have them. just thought id let you know that.
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by cappyxavs /forum/post/0


if you plan to use the uncompressed pcm outputs the ps3 will not have them.

It is usually called a multi-channel analog output but you are correct that the PS3 does not have that while most stand alone Blu-ray players do. That can be a deciding factor for people depending on the AV receiver that they own.
 
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