[Wilson-Flyer]

I'm interested in hearing feedback from you guys regarding the new T2i and its viability as a video camera replacement for the "typical" video camera.


I've been looking at pulling the trigger on a replacement for my HG10 for a while now but just won't do it because I want a camcorder that controls DOF so I can get a more film-like look.


This camera looks like the magic link. I just can't imagine constantly shooting video with a camera in an SLR form-factor. I just can't imagine that it will "feel" comfortable and right doing so. Thoughts?


Things like this make you wonder why Canon hasn't pulled the trigger on a true pro-sumer camcorder with 35mm lens support. Surely this is right around the corner but I'm tired of waiting yet I hate to piss away another $800 on a camera only to see what I really wanted (a camcorder with camcorder feel with DOF and 35mm lens support) right around the freakin' corner. I feel like I'm waiting on somthing that just ain't ever gonna happen yet I know it "will". I just don't know when.


I'd love to hear your thoughts and insights.


Those of you not familiar, PLEASE take a look at the video posted here and I think you will be AMAZED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xfEw2P6M10 Be SURE to change it to 1080p full screen and be prepared to be blown slam AWAY.


And the brief review posted here at Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/25/c...mode-collects/


Simply AMAZING, IMHO. I want one in a camcorder form factor and I Want it NOW. LOL

 

[guy80]

It does look appealing. To replace my HG-20 I'd need 1080 60p/i & longer battery life (12min @ 1080).

Personally I think I could adapt well to shooting video with an SLR vs camcorder.


Here's a thread I found over at dpreview link

 

[marcolisi]

the problem with all these DSRL camera id the 4gb limit.

When and if thy will bypass it, I will buy it instead of buying a camcorder


tx

 

[TheBum]



Quote:
Originally Posted by guy80 /forum/post/18206920


It does look appealing. To replace my HG-20 I'd need 1080 60p/i & longer battery life (12min @ 1080).

Personally I think I could adapt well to shooting video with an SLR vs camcorder.

I don't think I could adapt if I needed zoom. The size of the lens necessary to get zoom equivalent to a camcorder would make the camera too heavy and unwieldy to hold in a shooting position for more than a minute or two.

 

[droht]

The T2i lacks auto focus in video mode. That doesn't matter if you are embracing the manual controls, but for lots of typical users it will mean worse videos when compared to even a $500 HD camcorder.


It also lacks an articulating LCD. I think that is the biggest factor in DSLR being unwieldy to shoot with vs a camcorder. No clue why they don't go that route when they are trying to play up video.


The T2i likely provides the most potential for great video of any mid-level DSLR. If you are shooting an indie it is likely the camera for you. If you are taking videos of more mundane stuff I still think the Panny GH1 has it beat.

 

[Wilson-Flyer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18207867


the problem with all these DSRL camera id the 4gb limit.

When and if thy will bypass it, I will buy it instead of buying a camcorder


tx

Very good point. I was just about to pull the trigger last night and discovered this and I'm now having second thoughts. I may still just sell my XSi and get one anyway though, but it has made me think twice.


Even with about a 12 minute limit, it still may be fun to play with.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

Here's an article that compares both the 7D and the GH1.
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/26


For $1190 the GH1 does include a 14-140mm lens that makes it more camcorder like because of the auto focusing and the excellent stabilizer for video shooting. That lens alone sell for $850.


Still, I'm almost thinking about selling it to get the successor of the GH1 although knowing that Panasonic likes to starve the market, If it comes out in Japan in May, the US wont get it until perhaps July at the earliest and hopefully it wont be like the GH1 that took a little over 3 months from the release date of the US to finally be easily available. I'm very lucky that I got mine in July.


I would probably rather have the successor of the HMC40 if it comes out this year but it may be at least $500 or more than the successor of the GH1.

 

[bighairnee7]

My friend keeps telling me the Panasonic GH1 will have cropped videos and pictures compared to the T2i because it uses 4/3rds sensor. He's saying because of that you will have a more cropped video/picture,, is this true??

 

[guy80]



Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18207867


the problem with all these DSRL camera id the 4gb limit.

When and if thy will bypass it, I will buy it instead of buying a camcorder


tx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer /forum/post/18208668


Very good point. I was just about to pull the trigger last night and discovered this and I'm now having second thoughts. I may still just sell my XSi and get one anyway though, but it has made me think twice.


Even with about a 12 minute limit, it still may be fun to play with.

What is the correlation between the 4GB & 12min? People say everything on the Internet (1 website said the limit is due to taxing in Europe). I assumed it was a software/hardware limitation with FAT32 & mfg's, which SDXC may fix due to a different format being used.


For me the length needs to be a min of 30min, 1 hour is preferential for me to use as a replacement.


The GH1K looks appealing but the added cost is up their & almost enough difference to buy a $800 lens for the T2i. (note: I assumed the T2i would be $1200 with accessories, san a nice lens [i.e. $800 one referred to above]). However, the flip-out LCD is certainly worth a lot to me....once you've seen the light it's hard to go back.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairnee7 /forum/post/18209782


My friend keeps telling me the Panasonic GH1 will have cropped videos and pictures compared to the T2i because it uses 4/3rds sensor. He's saying because of that you will have a more cropped video/picture,, is this true??

I really don't think he/she understands what it means.


The GH1 has a 2x crop factor meaning a 50mm lens on a full frame camera such as the 5D Mark 2 will look like a 100mm lens on the GH1. The crop factor on the T2i is around 1.6x I believe.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

Speaking of the articulating screen, if it wasn't for that, these videos would have looked much worse. The auto focusing was also enabled and it was the 10x lens.

Before you view this last example, Please keep in mind that I was in an awkward position, had a lot of stuff on me and I was trying to operate the camera with gloves on because it was very cold. I probably should have moved to a better spot but too late now.

For every one of these examples I had no type of support at all. Just holding the camera with my bare hands.


It was on the 720 60p mode for all of them and I even exported the videos to 720 60p to preserve as much quality as possible. I recommend you to download the files onto your computer and use Splash to play them. An even better option is to use a PS3 hooked up to an HDTV and you'll be blown away.

 

[bighairnee7]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18210038


I really don't think he/she understands what it means.


The GH1 has a 2x crop factor meaning a 50mm lens on a full frame camera such as the 5D Mark 2 will look like a 100mm lens on the GH1. The crop factor on the T2i is around 1.6x I believe.

So doesnt that mean on the GH1 your shots&video be kinda more zoomed out looking?? They would start at a more zoomed out point?? i'm kind of confused. Sorry for being a noob.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

Yeh you'll see less in the frame than you would on a full frame camera. This is one of the reasons why lenses such as the Panasonic f/1.7, 20mm have been very hard to find. It's not easy finding a lens that as wide and fast from manual Nikon and Canon FD lenses. At least that's the good news meaning that their are equivalent lenses available that were made for the Micro 4/3rds and regular 4/3rds. If you want extremely wide, Panasonic offers an f/4, 7-14mm lens and Olympus is releasing a Micro 4/3rds version of their standard 4/3rds 9-18mm lens.

 

[bighairnee7]

I heard the T2i light flickers when you zoom in video, is this correct?

 

[Pepster returns]

7D vs. T2i Comparison Video

another


Video ISO Comparison: Canon EOS Rebel T2i vs. Canon EOS 7D
http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm?id=8813


My brother has a 7D and I am very temped by T2i.


BTW - Phill Bloom describes the GH1 has having a 'weak codec'.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

I'm sure you wont be able to find 1 reliable person that will claim the 720 60p mode out of the 7D is better than the GH1's. Theirs basically no competition. The GH1 wins hands down.


Now when you compare the 1080 24p mode, that's a little bit different. The GH1 has higher resolution and less artifacts in the picture. Basically if your shooting in 1080 24p without moving fast, the GH1 wins but if theirs a whole lot of fast motion, the 7D wins. Theirs also the case that with the 7D their isn't any pull-down to remove unlike the GH1.

 

[Pepster returns]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18218599


I'm sure you wont be able to find 1 reliable person that will claim the 720 60p mode out of the 7D is better than the GH1's. Theirs basically no competition. The GH1 wins hands down.


Now when you compare the 1080 24p mode, that's a little bit different. The GH1 has higher resolution and less artifacts in the picture. Basically if your shooting in 1080 24p without moving fast, the GH1 wins but if theirs a whole lot of fast motion, the 7D wins.

The 7D / T2i comparison review links I posted seem to suggest that there is precious little difference between the video footage of the 7D vs the T2i.


The GH1 video spec table in DPREVIEW says that the GH1 does 1920 x 1080, 24fps. What about the 25fps for Euro and Australia ?, or 30fps for the rest of the world ? I do not see how you can compare the GH1 with the 7D, when messy frame rate conversion is required on the GH1 to bring the footage into line with common TV frame rates. Not to mention that the Phil Bloom says that the GH1's codec is weak. When Phill Bloom went to the Skywalker Ranch, it was the 5d2 and the 7D that Lucas and Tarantino wanted to look at - there is a reason for this.


I would be happy with a GH1 except for the frame rate conversion thing - and not to mention the way too high price - The GH1 is currently $1200 from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-...7318129&sr=8-1


Amazon currently has the T2i listed as $800 (body) http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T2i-3-0-...7318408&sr=8-1

or $900 including a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T2i-Digi...7318408&sr=8-2 .


$900 bucks ready to go looks like good value for me, especially since it will shoot 25fps natively (my country).


I would rather not get into a GH1 vs the rest of the world type discussion (reminds me of Mac users). I would rather learn more about the T2i as the title of this thread suggests.


As for detail, I believe the GH1 only has 22Mb/s H264 vs the 45Mb/s H264 of the 7D - you don't get detail for nothing.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

To be fair, that $1,190 price includes an $850, 10x lens that I mentioned earlier while the $900 price tag for the T2i includes a low quality lens that's valued at around $150.


Look, I've been in conversations in which I was either defending the 7D or the GH1. They both have strengths and weaknesses. It all depends on what you want to use it for. That's why I posted the link to Barry Green's article and I fully agree with him.


Their been cases in which people are trying to choose between video cameras and you'll usually post a Canon DSLR camera so that statement is very ironic coming from you.

 

[Pepster returns]

Yes, Barry Green likes his Panasonics - he is a moderator on the dvxuser (dvx = Panasonic) forum.


I don't really want to hammer the GH1 to death, but really, for the money, it is not nearly as good as some other options.


A user comment from Amazon, re the GH1; http://www.amazon.com/review/R2HOI0R...R2HOI0RV5ECVJA


"In the category of dumb things from the past that should have died long ago, the full HD 24p mode is encoded as 60i with pulldown. Your footage will look terrible if played back directly, or you must use software to remove the pulldown. Even with pulldown "removed" you end up with visible interlace ghosting due to the fields being encoded separately. Furthermore, pulldown wastes bitrate, since it basically splits each image in two and compresses them separately, even though they are almost identical images. Result is lower quality images with more compression artifacts for the same bitrate. As it is, the image quality at 1080 is barely sufficient, has trails lasting 1-2 frames at times.


The 720 mode can only be 60p, and has no option for 24p or 30p. Weird, since most people would generally want to shoot at 24p, unless they were filming sports or slow motion. Including 24p and 30p modes would allow for less compression and higher image quality for the same bitrate."


and


"I witnessed some pretty serious aliasing, suggesting their downsampling algorithm is not so good. For example, if you film tiny christmas lights from a bit of a distance, and pan slowly, you will see individual lights literally appear and then completely disappear, and then appear again."


The 7D (and now the T2i) can shoot natively in 1080P 24, 25 and 30 fps, and the GH1 cannot.


edit to correct previous post:

Re the GH1, the correct quote from Phill Bloom was "Wish codec was stronger....17mbps bit stingy."

I assume the T2i will still have the 45Mb/s data rate of the 7D.

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

You can also shoot in MJPEG at 720 30p. You'll probably find much, much more people complaining about the aliasing and moire on a Canon DSLR than a GH1. I've said already that with the 7D, you don't have to remove pull-down.


The fact of the matter is that neither can be considered completely better than the other. For a lot of applications, you really need some kind of external output and for other type of application, having an articulating screen will make your shots look much better. I know Barry Green is a moderator of that forum but regardless, he will not say that one is completely better than the other.


Another example is comparing that fact that you'd be able to record in multiple frame rates like you can with the T2i that you mentioned and the fact that you can hook up just about every 35 format lens their is like you can with the GH1.