[Hellbot]

Hey everyone,

I am hoping some of you can help me narrow down what speakers I should be looking at. I just moved into a new home and my old entry level Polk 5.1 all in one just can't cut it. Not to mention the center decided to die on me recently. The living room floor space I am in is about 18x25 feet. The ceiling is vaulted, with the low end being behind the couch at around 10 ft in height. The wall behind the TV looks somewhere close to 20 ft high. Couch is positioned somewhere around 13 - 14 ft from TV. Speaker setup will mostly be for theater use.

I'm working with a Sony STR-DN1080 and a Klipsch K-100SW. I was eyeing ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2, Q Acoustics 3020i, and SVS Prime. Each with their respective centers. However, as I perused different discussions I noticed mention of the ELACs possibly being "power hungry" a few times. I also noticed that Q Acoustics aren't mentioned very often in this price range.

Ideally I would spend a little more considering the space, but I've got some rambunctious kids and haven't figured out how to best wire a set of rear speakers. So my plan is to get a pair decent bookshelf fronts with a solid center. Possibly a sub if the consensus is that my current one is severely lacking or won't pair well with the speakers I'm looking at. In a few years maybe I can just move whatever L and R I pickup now to the back, and then perhaps get some towers down the road. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[smithsabom]

check out ascend acoustics CBM 170 or the CMT 340... or Hsu research HB-1 / HC-1 or emotiva B1 /C1, or Chane 1.4 , 2.4...

 

[Boombox13]

Check out Canton speakers at A4L.

Some are currently on sale.

 

[gajCA]

Hey everyone,

I am hoping some of you can help me narrow down what speakers I should be looking at. I just moved into a new home and my old entry level Polk 5.1 all in one just can't cut it. Not to mention the center decided to die on me recently. The living room floor space I am in is about 18x25 feet. The ceiling is vaulted, with the low end being behind the couch at around 10 ft in height. The wall behind the TV looks somewhere close to 20 ft high. Couch is positioned somewhere around 13 - 14 ft from TV. Speaker setup will mostly be for theater use.

I'm working with a Sony STR-DN1080 and a Klipsch K-100SW. I was eyeing ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2, Q Acoustics 3020i, and SVS Prime. Each with their respective centers. However, as I perused different discussions I noticed mention of the ELACs possibly being "power hungry" a few times. I also noticed that Q Acoustics aren't mentioned very often in this price range.

Ideally I would spend a little more considering the space, but I've got some rambunctious kids and haven't figured out how to best wire a set of rear speakers. So my plan is to get a pair decent bookshelf fronts with a solid center. Possibly a sub if the consensus is that my current one is severely lacking or won't pair well with the speakers I'm looking at. In a few years maybe I can just move whatever L and R I pickup now to the back, and then perhaps get some towers down the road. Any help will be appreciated.

All three have their fans on AVS.

Are you near any of these folks?

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HI FI HEAVEN*** GREEN BAY WISONSIN
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
MONOPRICE NEAR RIVERSIDE CALIFORNIA
MUSIC DIRECT*** CHICAGO ILLINOIS
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
SATURDAY AUDIO--- CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SEATON SOUND NEAR CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SELAH AUDIO NEAR RALEIGH NORTH CAROLINA
SVS* YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
TEKTON NEAR PROVO UTAH
TYLER ACOUSTICS NEAR LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY
WORLDWIDE STEREO*** NEAR PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA

CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS
AXIOM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FLUANCE NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FUNK AUDIO NEAR VANCOUVER CANADA
PARADIGM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
PSB NEAR TORONTO CANADA
TOTEM NEAR MONTREAL CANADA
* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
***retail outlet of many brands

 

[Hellbot]

I'm in Central Florida so Accessories 4 Less isn't too far from me.

 

[gajCA]

I'm in Central Florida so Accessories 4 Less isn't too far from me.

Chane as well.

Tampa.

 

[RayGuy]

Q Acoustics has a lot of positive reviews, typically winning the top spot in their price category. They are said to make the best of poor quality or low bit rate recordings. If your habits include lots of youtube or other low bit rate sources, these may be a good choice, assuming you are not going to play the speakers at very high volumes.

Chane will allow for higher volumes, but their revealing nature will expose poor recordings/low bit rate streams for what they are. On the positive side, they will shine with high quality sources. Also, since you mentioned it, the Chanes will ask for plenty of power, but will be OK with less.

RSL may be the best compromise. Not quite as revealing as the Chanes, but can be played at fairly high volumes. You will absolutely need a subwoofer and the RSL Speedwoofer 10s is a fine candidate. Also, since you mentioned it, free return shipping.

You are right, that receiver is a bit of a wimp. You can always tell when the spec rates the power with only one channel. at 6 ohms (instead of 2 channel at 8 ohms). Depending on your listening habits, it may not be adequate to produce the volume levels you prefer. When you get to 5.x or 7.x, you may have to upgrade.

 

[Zorba922]

I'm in Central Florida so Accessories 4 Less isn't too far from me.

Then you have 2 wonderful opps most folks don't: you could drive over to A4L and listen to their speakers, and then to Tampa to hear the Chanes.

To top it off you could also order a pair of RSLs to compare, since they provide free return shipping.

HTD also provides free return shipping, so it would be good to try out their Level 3 offerings too.

 

[Hellbot]

Thanks, everyone. I'm glad I asked because there are a lot more options than I realized. Good to know I have some local options as well.

That brings me to another question. Why are the brands mentioned (Canton, HSU, Chane, RSL) more appealing to some of you than the speakers that are often easier to find in reviews (ELAC, Q, KEF)? Is it simply a quality thing? Bang for the buck?

You are right, that receiver is a bit of a wimp. You can always tell when the spec rates the power with only one channel. at 6 ohms (instead of 2 channel at 8 ohms). Depending on your listening habits, it may not be adequate to produce the volume levels you prefer. When you get to 5.x or 7.x, you may have to upgrade.

Hi Ray. Could you elaborate on this bit? I get the gist of how wattage works for speakers but I have no clue what ohms refers to. I just assumed the lower the number the more power it required. So I definitely don't get the part about one channel at 6 vs 2 at 8. The specs for the Sony AVR state it provides 165W per channel. I assumed it could handle something like the ELACs at 125W with no problem.

 

[Zorba922]

That brings me to another question. Why are the brands mentioned (Canton, HSU, Chane, RSL) more appealing to some of you than the speakers that are often easier to find in reviews (ELAC, Q, KEF)? Is it simply a quality thing? Bang for the buck?

Why many of us love ID (Internet-Direct) speaker/sub companies:

1. (Usually) much better price-to-performance ratio (a.k.a. "bang for the buck") due to far lower overhead (no middlemen distributors and resellers, no big bloated advertising budget, etc.)
2. (Usually) ease of doing IN-HOME auditions, which are infinitely more useful than IN-STORE auditions; plus there are very few stores where you can go listen to speakers anymore, except for Best Buy which is usually a crappy listening environment anyhow.
3. (Almost always) stellar customer service because these companies rely on word of mouth on enthusiast forums like AVS, plus you don't get routed to some outsourced person in Delhi or Manila.
4. (Often) unique and innovative products.
5. (Usually) more customizable options, such as being able to buy speakers in singles rather than pairs or having tweeters rotated 90 degrees on bookshelves used as horizontal centers.
6. (Often) satisfaction of supporting the scrappy "little guy" underdog.
7. (Often) satisfaction of supporting companies run by passionate audio enthusiasts rather than corporate boards and bean-counters.

 

[gajCA]

You are right, that receiver is a bit of a wimp. You can always tell when the spec rates the power with only one channel. at 6 ohms (instead of 2 channel at 8 ohms). Depending on your listening habits, it may not be adequate to produce the volume levels you prefer. When you get to 5.x or 7.x, you may have to upgrade.

IDK, I'd wager most speakers rated nominally as 8 ohms are closer to 6 ohms but do agree that the spec at 6 ohms is unusual but what I see is two channels driven.

100 watts per channel into 6 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.09% THD, with 2 channels driven.

This is what Sound & Vision found on their test bench.

Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 98.9 watts
1% distortion at 121.4 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 66.2 watts
1% distortion at 90.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 64.4 watts 1% distortion at 75.5 watts


Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...eceiver-review-test-bench#ydGhcUAm9IjdbVlO.99

 

[RayGuy]

Thanks, everyone. I'm glad I asked because there are a lot more options than I realized. Good to know I have some local options as well.

That brings me to another question. Why are the brands mentioned (Canton, HSU, Chane, RSL) more appealing to some of you than the speakers that are often easier to find in reviews (ELAC, Q, KEF)? Is it simply a quality thing? Bang for the buck?



Hi Ray. Could you elaborate on this bit? I get the gist of how wattage works for speakers but I have no clue what ohms refers to. I just assumed the lower the number the more power it required. So I definitely don't get the part about one channel at 6 vs 2 at 8. The specs for the Sony AVR state it provides 165W per channel. I assumed it could handle something like the ELACs at 125W with no problem.

A receiver can deliver more power to fewer channels driven at once. Most receivers are rated with two channels driven as a general rule. Sometimes, in higher quality products, it's rated with all channels driven. The receiver has to have a very robust power supply to be rated for all channels driven. So, all channels driven rating > 2 channels driven > one channel driven.

Receiver manufacturers with poor ratings vs their competitors at 2 channels driven will use the one channel driven rating for marketing purposes, so they can show 165 watts for that single channel to fool the uninitiated into thinking it's very powerful. In reality, that 165 watts is probably more like 75 watts with two channels driven, and with all channels driven, probably 15 watts. So, as you can see, playing games with the power rating has significant benefits in sales figures.

As to ohms, lower allows more power to be drawn (at least temporarily). By using 6 ohms instead of 8 ohms, once again, the power rating is boosted for marketing purposes. At 8 ohms, that 165 watts into one channel becomes 125 watts, or thereabouts. Apply the computations from the previous paragraph using 125 watts, and you get a very poor rating vs other receivers in it's same class.

Bottom line, that 165 watts is a total and complete fabrication made up by the marketing department of Sony to sell receivers that look powerful, but are not.

 

[RayGuy]

IDK, I'd wager most speakers rated nominally as 8 ohms are closer to 6 ohms but do agree that the spec at 6 ohms is unusual but what I see is two channels driven.

100 watts per channel into 6 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.09% THD, with 2 channels driven.

This is what Sound & Vision found on their test bench.

Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 98.9 watts
1% distortion at 121.4 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 66.2 watts
1% distortion at 90.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 64.4 watts 1% distortion at 75.5 watts


Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...eceiver-review-test-bench#ydGhcUAm9IjdbVlO.99

I got this directly off the Sony web site:

POWER OUTPUT
165 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1ch driven THD 0.9%)

They even play the 1 kHz game! Your ratings can't possibly be the same receiver.

 

[gajCA]

Thanks, everyone. I'm glad I asked because there are a lot more options than I realized. Good to know I have some local options as well.

That brings me to another question. Why are the brands mentioned (Canton, HSU, Chane, RSL) more appealing to some of you than the speakers that are often easier to find in reviews (ELAC, Q, KEF)? Is it simply a quality thing? Bang for the buck?



Hi Ray. Could you elaborate on this bit? I get the gist of how wattage works for speakers but I have no clue what ohms refers to. I just assumed the lower the number the more power it required. So I definitely don't get the part about one channel at 6 vs 2 at 8. The specs for the Sony AVR state it provides 165W per channel. I assumed it could handle something like the ELACs at 125W with no problem.

I think you misread the spec, nevertheless Sound & Vision confirmed it has plenty of power for your needs.

I rarely recommend Canton from A4L as their return costs are so high and they add 10 percent restocking but as you are close by you can certainly save on shipping, and Canton does make good stuff but I don't believe A4L has an actual listening room so you'd have to try them at home.

Chane doesn't have a listening room as far as I know but @jonlane can arrange auditions for local I believe.

Elac makes popular speakers on AVS as does KEF with the latter charging a lot for their center channels though.

RSL is popular, (as are HTD and SVS), and offer free returns.

Q Acoustics/HSU/Chane and others are popular also but not available with free returns, (Best Buy), or heavily discounted returns, (Crutchfield), but at least their returns are reasonable with no restocking fee.

None of the brands you are considering are considered poor choices but none of us can guarantee which you would prefer.

I'd always start with local folks first if they are amenable as you eliminate shipping returns.

 

[gajCA]

I got this directly off the Sony web site:



They even play the 1 kHz game!

Ha ha ha.

That is bananas.

Well, at least Sound & Vision confirmed decent power but closer to the 2 channels driven number not that nutty 1khz single channel number.

 

[RayGuy]

I think you misread the spec, nevertheless Sound & Vision confirmed it has plenty of power for your needs.

I rarely recommend Canton from A4L as their return costs are so high and they add 10 percent restocking but as you are close by you can certainly save on shipping, and Canton does make good stuff but I don't believe A4L has an actual listening room so you'd have to try them at home.

Chane doesn't have a listening room as far as I know but @jonlane can arrange auditions for local I believe.

Elac makes popular speakers on AVS as does KEF with the latter charging a lot for their center channels though.

RSL is popular, (as are HTD and SVS), and offer free returns.

Q Acoustics/HSU/Chane and others are popular also but not available with free returns, (Best Buy), or heavily discounted returns, (Crutchfield), but at least their returns are reasonable with no restocking fee.

None of the brands you are considering are considered poor choices but none of us can guarantee which you would prefer.

I'd always start with local folks first if they are amenable as you eliminate shipping returns.

See for yourself:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/av-receivers/str-dn1080/specifications

 

[gajCA]

See for yourself:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/av-receivers/str-dn1080/specifications

I looked at the owners manual on Crutchfield that makes no mention of that bizarre spec...thankfully.

Why they'd have that on their site and not in the manual is beyond me.

 

[Hellbot]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. This has been very informative. Since it seems like the Sony may pull this off I'll continue to give it a shot. Next stop will most likely be A4L. That said the RSLs are looking pretty sweet.

 

[gajCA]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. This has been very informative. Since it seems like the Sony may pull this off I'll continue to give it a shot. Next stop will most likely be A4L. That said the RSLs are looking pretty sweet.

No financial risk giving RSL a shot.

Free return shipping.

 

[zieglj01]

Your receiver is a good receiver

Crutchfield tests every product that they sell, even the vehicle products

And yes check out Canton ... keep them on a short list