[neil_n]

I just got home with a "brand new" Sunfire Super Junior subwoofer and I need some advice. The subwoofer was part of a larger purchase and when the subwoofer was brought out to me, I noticed that the box looked "worn" (staples in the top of the box not seated, tape covering the top looked old). I mentioned it to the sales rep (who is also the lead or manager of the store from what I could tell) and he mumbled something (my friend was in the store at the time and I was helping him). I then walked around the corner as the lead sales rep is at all of my boxes and the guy tells me that he took the tape off the box (all of the boxes were on a cart to be wheeled to my car). As I pressured him a little as to why, he said he was checking to see if the item was opened or not and said it was not. I did not check while I was their because I am an idiot (and a little intimidated as a newbie). Of course, when I get home I notice that it is an open box sold as new (too many reasons to list why but it is obvious - no staples on inside box but previous staple holes, electrical cord's plastic wrapper already ripped open, etc.).


I guess as I type this I have just convinced myself that I should take everything back (B&W 602 S3 fronts, B&W LCR60 S3 center, Sanus stands, plus subwoofer, total of $2,024). As I was leaving the store and joking with the guy for selling me an open item, he was telling me he would get another one in for me if it was open, he would take care of it over the phone - whatever that meant, etc. Like I said, I was a little intimidated because I am a newbie and I kept saying I trust you, I am sure it is not opened, etc.).


I know an open box is probably only a 10% discount, but I feel cheated and I really trusted the guy. So I guess I need some advice. He told me to call him if there were any issues with the item being open box, he would take care of it over the phone, etc. Should I just take everything back tomorrow without calling him and then let everyone on this board know which store it was or is there another approach?


Thanks.

 

[David Richardson]

I would give the guy a chance. Call him and let him know the box was already open. Let him know that you feel 10% or xxxx discount should apply unless you want a new one that is factory sealed. That seems fair to you and him.




Dave

 

[thebland]

Bring back the sub with a message that the rest of it is coming back if no satisfaction is given.


I am sure he will accomodate you. If the rest of the equipment is as promised, I certainly would keep it.


Worst case, if they don't satisfy you, return the sub and buy elsewhere. Since, THEY will then have to sell it as an open-box item, they will gladly rather discount it for you.


Good luck (and keep us posted).


JEff

 

[Ratman]

Although taking everything back would really send a message to the 'typical-lying-commissioned-salesperson', it really does you no good!

BUT... I would definitely make a point to threaten him with returning all of the gear.


He knew that the sub was 'used'. He outright lied and took advantage of you. I would:

a) demand a 'brand new' sub ASAP.

b) get not only a discount on the new sub, but also be compensated (in some fashion) for your inconvenience.

c) let him know that if you are not satisfied, you will contact the president/owner of the company about the tactics used by the salespeople and inform them about your participation on AV forums. Bad business....

 

[Allan Jayne]

At the very least you should get a discount over and above the usual discounting you or another buyer would get on a new unit.


Don't fall for the trap that you are already getting a discount because of a storewide sale or because you bought the subwoofer as part of a package deal. There should be an additional discount for the fact it was an open box item.


Generally secondhand subwoofers behave as well as new. (Unlike RPTV's where the CRT's might have been burned by the previous owner or by doing showroom duty). The chances that the subwoofer's performance has been degraded are very slim. A discount for it's having been used is "on principle" primarily.


Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm


New cars that got damaged during shipment and were patched up (as opposed to damaged parts being removed and replaced) should also be sold with an additional discount, they are now "seconds".


If your kid's birthday is near or at Christmastime, he deserves separate birthday gifts comparable to what his/her siblings got for their birthdays plus separate Christmas gifts comparable to what his/her siblings get at Christmas.

 

[neil_n]

I agree with you that people with a birthday of Dec. 30 (like myself) should still enjoy all of the benefits of Christmas gifts and birthday gifts like my brother and sister did! Luckily for me, my parents did a good job with both sets of gifts for me growing up.

 

[Steve13]

Tell them you want X% discount (whatever you think it fair). Also tell them that you will keep the sub you've got until they get the new sub. When they get the new sub, tell them they need to come to your house, unhook the old sub, install the new sub, etc.


You should NOT have to be incovenienced at all. Make them come get it and do all the legwork. If they don't want to do that, threaten to file a complaint with the credit card company. Chargeback disputes are a real pain for a merchant, and they'll usually jump to avoid them.

 

[neil_n]

I do not understand how I would get the credit card company involved? I figure I am either going to take everything back and never go there again, take the sub woofer back and replace with a new one (with some sort of discount), or keep the sub woofer I have and get an even better discount.


What would I threaten using the credit card company - just taking the item back is the charge back you are talking about?


Thanks for everyone's response. I was much more fired up before I started reading people's responses. Forums are the best!!!!! This one has helped me so much I cannot even tell you. Priceless information on everything I have had questions on.

 

[mbpg]

Quote:

Tell them you want X% discount (whatever you think it fair). Also tell them that you will keep the sub you've got until they get the new sub. When they get the new sub, tell them they need to come to your house, unhook the old sub, install the new sub, etc.

Steve, if they agree to replace the used sub with a new one, why do you feel an additional discount is called for? Not a challenge, just a question.

Quote:

I do not understand how I would get the credit card company involved? I figure I am either going to take everything back and never go there again, take the sub woofer back and replace with a new one (with some sort of discount), or keep the sub woofer I have and get an even better discount.

The credit card issuer can help "negotiate" with the store in case they do not agree to substitute the sub. Once you have communicated to the store what you believe to be a fair settlement -- for example, a new sub with the original discount, you could file a dispute with the CC co. They advise the store and then defer payment for at least 60 days. They (CC co) then approach the store and try to find a solution. Many small stores do not care to battle with a CC.


You might also call the owner. A repudable shop owner would remedy this without thinking. One word of advice, though -- don't get mad, don't insult, and don't threaten, just be resonable, stay focused on what you want and be prepared to return the system if you can't get it.


Michael

 

[David Richardson]

Steve


If you ask me you are being a real a.. about this. He hasn't even contacted the guy yet. Heck, I would tell you keep it or return it with that attitude.


Dave

 

[Ratman]

Don't you think that the real truth of the matter is that the salesperson knew that this sub was used/opened.. whatever and intentionally tried to deceive the customer. I would not hestitate to make things right and take any action to make sure that that type of 'sales technique' is immediately stopped. It's theft by deception!

 

[David Richardson]

Is is not a courtesy that open box items are discounted! Please show me where the law says that open box items .................


Not trying to say SOL but come on now. Did the guy really know or just suspect ! I guess we are all using the physic hot line to find out. the original post of the conversation was seems to me that the salesman suspected but wanted the buyer to make the first move.


If I'm at some store and open the box to check it out as I do often does the next person who ends up buying that item have a right to demand a discount?


Do you know how many people abuse items one day then come back the next and want a discount on that item. Happens all the time. Be careful when you buy but lets be reasonable.



Dave

 

[neil_n]

The sales rep had mentioned to me that I could email him if I had any problems with the "open box" once I got home. I sent the person an email (he is also the Assistant Manager) that stated:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the Sunfire is a very open box. Not one staple in the box (outside box or inside box containing subwoofer) was seated. Actually, all staples in the inside box were not even present. The only other item I looked at was the electrical cord. The electrical cord's plastic wrapper was ripped open. I was upset and did not even take the subwoofer out of the box. I have not opened any of the other boxes either.


I am currently debating what to do. I must say that I am very upset at myself for trusting you and not opening up the open box while I was there. I am also upset with you since I believe you knew it was an open box and were trying to get by on a newbie. I know you knew it was open because you took the "old" tape off the top, and when I asked why, you said to check to see if it was an open box. Well, taking the tape off and looking at the inside box that holds the subwoofer, you would have seen the staples missing from the inside box. You knew I had reservations about the box being open.

--------------------------------------------------------------


His response was:

--------------------------------------------------------------

I have already had a Sunfire Subwoofer sent from another store to replace the one you took. I am not in the habit of deceiving my customers. I also indicated that if it was in fact open box that I would make it right by replacing it with one new in the box. I am already having a new one sent from another store. I will phone you to let you know when this arrives so we can make arrangements to get this in your hands without any inconvenience. We could also have you return the subwoofer to our location and exchange it for a new in the box sub. I would just need to have you let me know what you are going to do. We are interested in taking care of our customers.


Standing by to assist you.

--------------------------------------------------------------


I do not know if I want to come in contact with him. It would not have been that big of a deal if it was just a mistake. But I know it was intentional and I even called him on it several times before I left (in a somewhat joking way each time). I just wish I would have opened up the box before leaving. Maybe I will take all of the speakers back and not go back. They are not the only show in town. Thanks.

 

[thebland]

Neil,


The guy is obviously trying to make amends. Accept the sub and his apologies and go on and enjoy your new system. Returning everything won't solve anything and will only be more of a hassle. You think it was intentional but perhaps you are wrong. Stuff happens.


His e-mail sounds sincere and forthright to me.


Relax. A new sub is on its way. Go and get it and end of story.


(don't make a mountain out of a mole hill)


Glad all worked out.


Jeff

 

[Bill Lucas]

The salesperson is doing the right thing. Take the new sub as thebland suggests.


Since I'm from the same area as you I know the company in question. You will never get through to the owner of the company. They're simply too large with too many layers. They also don't really discount so if you try to play hardball for a disount they'll tell you to keep the sub or return it.


Take the reasonable advice that others have given you and discount what you're hearing from the hardliners. Their stances will not get you satisfaction. Regards.

 

[Steve13]

Quote:

Originally posted by David Richardson Steve If you ask me you are being a real a.. about this. He hasn't even contacted the guy yet. Heck, I would tell you keep it or return it with that attitude. Dave

Dave-

Quite the contrary! I was just suggesting a path he could take. The suggestion about the credit card was meant to be a last resort if he wasn't getting service.


I'm a big believer that if someone makes a mistake (honest or not) it shouldn't inconvenience me. That's why I suggested asking the store to deliver it.


Calling the store manager and telling them what happened and suggesting that they could deliver it to make up for the inconvenience is a very reasonable request. If you ask nicely, you'll be amazed at what you can get, and more importantly you can also build a great relationship with a dealer.


I can always get more money (or another speaker) but time is a precious commodity. If it was me, I wouldn't want to spend another couple of hours of my day running back and forth getting another speaker.


Anyway, it sounds like it's all working out anyway.

 

[Ratman]

Quote:

Originally posted by David Richardson Is is not a courtesy that open box items are discounted! Please show me where the law says that open box items ................. I agree. But, normally 'open box' means used. If one makes a purchase, they assume they are to receive 'new' mechandise, unless told 'upfront'. Not trying to say SOL but come on now. Did the guy really know or just suspect ! The salesman knew... the customer was trusting! Any moron knows if new materials have been repackaged or tampered. I guess we are all using the physic hot line to find out. the original post of the conversation was seems to me that the salesman suspected but wanted the buyer to make the first move. There's my point. The salesman figured that he could unload the goods. Deception. If I'm at some store and open the box to check it out as I do often does the next person who ends up buying that item have a right to demand a discount?Perhaps. We all want to purchase products that are new not used. It is no profit loss to the retailer to discount open/used merchandise. Markup is so high that 10% is not even a small dent in profit. The respectful retailer will do this as a courtesy to the customer. Good for business, no deception. All the cards are on the table. Do you know how many people abuse items one day then come back the next and want a discount on that item. Happens all the time. Be careful when you buy but lets be reasonable. Yep... happens all the time. Returned merchandise can written off as a business loss. Happens all the time, even with the stuff employees take for themselves. Dave [/b]

 

[David Richardson]

"I'm a big believer that if someone makes a mistake (honest or not) it shouldn't inconvenience me. That's why I suggested asking the store to deliver it."



Steve - Please remind me of this if you ever wanted to do business with me.

I see your point but I not that much of a hard a...


You and Ratman both make good points. Since I wasn't there I try to keep a middle ground and not because I'm in the AV business either. Heck, just as of 1 hour ago I just spent 20K on a mini van, so I'm also a consumer as well.


Dave

 

[mbpg]

Neil


The note from the salesman sounds legit. If he wanted to give you a hard time, he could, but he doesn't seem to. Maybe he tried to pull a fast one, or maybe he just didn't care. Either way, you get a new sunfire, which is what you originally wanted and paid for. Take the sub and enjoy it, knowing that you have gained some experience without paying too high a price. And just don't go back.


Michael

 

[Allan Jayne]

There is no law that says an open box item has to be discounted, but the wise consumer won't buy it without an additional discount.


You are not supposed to dispute the credit card charge until after you have tried and failed to return the merchandise.


Occasionally consumers are able to reseal the box so it looks like it was never opened, at least without a magnifying glass that detectives and criminologists carry around.


>>> ...open the box to check it out as I do often does the next person who ends up buying...


I cannot rule out the suggestion of opening the box yourself just after leaving the cash register, to see if the item was not damaged in shipment and obviously so. Ideally this inspection does not produce more unnecessary open box items for the store to deal with since if the item looks OK it is not getting returned instantly. There was another forum I was lurking in (clarkhoward.com, discussion boards, ripoffs) where someone reported buying a DVD player in a sealed box and when he got it home and opened it up, it was broken. He did take it back to the store (a well known consumer electronics chain I won't mention) and the store said he the consumer broke it and refused an exchange or refund.


I do suggest opening up and trying the exact TV you will be buying, just before paying for it. This way, if the convergence or geometry is bad, you don't have to lug the heavy item back to the store. This way overall calibration can be done right there in the store and only a few fine adjustments need to be done at home.