[eweiss]

If you bought the Samsung DLP (HLM437 or HLM507) and then traded it for the Sony LCD (KF-60XBR800 or KF50XBR800) ... or vice-versa, and wouldn't mind sharing your reason(s), please do so.


[If the ONLY reason you traded a Samsung HLM507 for the Sony KF-60XBR800 was for the size increase, an easily understandable reason, you don't need to respond. However, if there were other issues like PQ, remote functions, etc., please list them.]


Thanks!

 

[ftlee]

eweiss,


Umr is a good person to talk with, hopefully he will comment. He was originally going to purchase the DLP but, ended up buying the GWII. He has posted some amazing screen shots of the GWII.


P.S. He was part of the Houston Tweak Team and made his decision based on the tweaked 507 and the non-tweaked GWII.


-ftlee

 

[umr]

I wasn't planning on posting because I did not take delivery on the 507 and I posted my reasons before. Do a search on my user name and you should find my comments. I need to leave now.

 

[umr]

eweiss,


I read your comments on another post about your being picky and the GWII. I am not sure you will be happy with either the Sony or the 507. If you want the best picture for all occasions neither one of these is going to cut the mustard. They both have short comings with respect to picture quality. They just both happen to be in about the same price range and don't burn-in.


Your concerns about the GWII on the other post are perfectly valid. I dislike the grayish blacks and the fan noise also, but for me they are tolerable. Back-lighting is key to adapting to the black problem.


The 507 can have many digitally induced artifacts that are very distracting. These would include things like rainbows (which I see), temporal dithering, shiny pixels on bright scenes and other digitally induced things. I would also find the 507's useability to be an issue (wide mode, no discrete codes...)


The 507 in the store seemed about as loud to me as the GWII so I am not sure it will have any less fan noise at home.

 

[hrpull]

As in my other posts - I bought the 507 and at the time new very little about the GW1 or GW2. I got the set and soon had the rainbow problems with it. That was the most disturbing although I noticed the "sunburn" issue on DirectTV in particular. There is some digital weirdness when watching SD DirectTv also - buzzing colors in the backgrounds - especially when freeze framing my Ultimate TV. The DVD picture (after SM tweaks) is very good. I like the smoothness of the pixels from the mirror - you can get closer to the set than the GW2. There are internal reflection issues also - easy to see with the "screensaver" on my UltimateTv. The RCA logo has a dimmer blob that moves around on the screen due to the reflection. I've only notice the reflection issue while watching an HBO Sopranos episode in 16:9 mode during a dark scene. I saw a white blob in a black background coming from a bright white object elsewhere on the screen.


I spent 4 weeks with the TV and decided that the rainbows were too disturbing and I arranged to have the GW2 60" inch delivered sight-unseen. (I learned about the GW2 on this forum while evaluating the 507). The rainbow issue was really the only reason I returned the set.


I generally liked the 507 a lot - it was cool hooking my computer up to it. If it weren't for the rainbows, I would have kept it - since the weight, and DVI options were very good. I would have eventually built a HTPC for it (with a Hi-Def card).


I've spent a week with the GW2 and like it very much. I am concerned a bit about the inability to connect over DVI at native resolution but I can live with that "feature". The fan is noisy, and I've noticed a little weirdness with the DRC in pro/standard mode. Some of my Directv programming exhibits some very intense interlacing artifacts during scene transitions. These go away when using the no DRC mild mode. I can repeat the video in different modes since I have an Ultimate-TV box hooked to the GW2. I've noticed some screen door effects at my viewing distance 11 - 12 feet during rapid camera motion. This is a little bothersome but I can learn to live with it. The screen door effect seems less in PRO mode with the DRC set in the middle of clarity/realism. DVD's look very good - especially with no rainbows for me. The lack of black is somewhat bothersome in dark movies, but as soon as there are bright whites in the picture, the blacks then look fine. I've tried a backlight, (not quite 6500k, haven't found a Westinghouse 6500k/98 CRI bulb yet in St. Louis) and it seems to help a little, but I seem to get the same effect by using dimmed room lights while watching TV (even thought I'm using incadescent bulbs). My wife hates the look of the back light when on - I can only use it when she is not watching also. The brightness is very good and works well in our room during daylight hours. I have the GW2 on a 28 inch stand and although my eyepoint is about even with the bottom of the screen, I find almost no difference in screen brightness over elevating my viewpoint towards the middle. The GW2 definitely has excellent vertical viewing angle over the GW1. My wife and I don't mind looking up a little at the TV. We really didn't want to exchange the stand we have since I can fit 6 components under the TV with my center speaker in front of the stand.


I will definitely keep the GW2 since I play quite a bit of Gamecube and will get an Xbox for Christmas. No burnin is mandatory for me. The pictures on both the 507 and GW2 have some weirdness about them - if your a perfectionist you'll find problems with either set. The 60" GW2 is a dramatic accessory to our family room (even over the 50" 507) so that is a plus also. Both the 507 and GW2 were dramatically better than my 15 year old Mits 26 inch direct view so I am very happy having the new GW2 and would like the 507 also if not for the rainbows.


Heino

 

[Tom Roper]

I think Heino makes excellent points.


My opinion differs from some of the others, in that I believe we make far too much reliance on digital artifact observations on SD 4x3 DirecTV programming. Way too much. It's not that the artifacts don't exist, or that we shouldn't be concerned with them. No, the problem is that we don't distinguish from where they originate. So the tv set ends up getting blamed for artifacts that are actually within the lower resolution broadcast signal, compression artifacts, and scaling artifacts from the set top box.


So the tv set that makes the less faithful reproduction, hides them behind poor resolution, poor focus, or dithering them comes out on top in a comparison.


I believe if you want to compare digital artifacts imparted on the picture by the *tv set*, you should be observing them where you can eliminate them from the source as much as possible. That means, an HDTV source, HDNet, 1080i, 720p.


Because when you view a DirecTV 4x3 SD channel upconverted to 720p/1080i, you are viewing not just the digital artifacts imparted on the picture by the tv set, but also the artifacts imparted on the picture by the set top box/tuner, scaler, and compression artifacts.


A set top box discriminates between native 720p/1080i and 480p/i broadcasts, letting you scale the 4x3 but not the 16x9. BUT...the tv set makes NO distinction between native 720p and 480i that's been upconverted to 720p by a set top box. From the perspective of the TV set, the 480>720p upconverted signal is just as *native* as the native 720p.


Summary:


When viewing SD DirecTV programming, you're seeing lots of digital artifacts, but how can you tell which ones are in the signal, and which ones are in the tv set?


When viewing HDTV programming, you're seeing many fewer digital artifacts, but the likelihood that the artifacts that you DO see are coming from the tv set is greater.


If we really want the best SD DirecTV picture, view them on an analog set not capable of faithfully resolving all of the offensive details.


Tom

 

[eweiss]

Very helpful and detailed responses. Thanks.


As I've written, I have NO PROBLEM with DirecTV on this 50" -- to me, it looks just as good/bad as it did on our 25" TV, other than the flat/matte look. Maybe I just got lucky.


I used Sound&Vision Home Theater DVD to "tune" this TV and all 4 picture settings are about equal as far as Brightnesss, Picture, Hue and Color are concerned, though I think I need to turn Picture and Brightness up a few notches to achieve a better image -- O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU? is supposed to look somewhat faded and sepia-toned, but it was too colorless at the S&V settings. I use Pro mode for almost everything. I think I may boost color and brightness even more on Standard so it can become the default Daytime viewing mode.