AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Which type of speaker would be better suited for a HT where 95 percent of the listening would be DVDs/TV. A "bright" more detailed speaker(axiom) or a "laid back" more warm speaker(Paradgm)?


or if 95 percent is DVD/TV would satellites be better? like mirage omnisats or Kef eggs?


thnks in advance for the advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,103 Posts
This is kind of like asking, "I am going to the ice cream store today, which kind of ice cream should I get?" People with the same knowledge of audio will have different preferences and give you different answers. You should try to find speaker manufactures which are making an honest attempt at giving you bang for your buck (paradigm is one, I have no familiarity with axiom) and go listen to those brands to find out whose presentation you like best. This is what will make you more happy than someone answering "bright is definitely better" and buying off their advice.


For example, I think Vandersteen speakers are the best speakers I have ever listened to. There are many people who know lots more about audio than I do who do not like the sound of Vandersteens. There are others who are in full agreement with me. What is undeniable about Vandersteens is that they try their best to give you as much speaker for the money as they can.


I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck in your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Why not go for "just right"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by John Desmond
Why not go for "just right for YOU"?
there


fixed :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
Like was said above, it's up to you. I was really shocked when I heard a laid back sounding speaker like the rocket's just come alive when they were used for HT! I mean truley shocked. I think anybody in the $2k+ budget should look at them for HT use.


Again I don't own rockets because their center, which is the most amazing part of the system, is just too big for my setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Figgie
there


fixed :D
Hey, I was talking about Goldilocks and the three bears: "just right"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
I say buy speakers based on auditioning music, not HT. Bright or laid back, if it does music well it should do HT well too. I've found that the opposite isn't necessarily true. Its really your preference that matters.

Quote:
I was really shocked when I heard a laid back sounding speaker like the rocket's just come alive when they were used for HT! I mean truley shocked. I think anybody in the $2k+ budget should look at them for HT use.
I agree, they are amazing HT speakers. I also happen to think they're amazing for music too. Their center is a very special speaker, albeit a monster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Yes, it is completely up to you. Not only the consumers, but each speaker maker has its own philosophy as to what is the "best" sound. The terms like "bright" and "laid-back" are also only relative. You can never fully express your auditory perception verbally. The only way to get the right answer for YOU is to listen to various brands of speakers.


Incidentally, in my personal opinion, "good sound for HT versus that for music" is plain nonsense. To me, a good audio equipment should always simply reproduce what is fed in (i.e., what the recording engineer intended) as neutrally as possible, regardless of whether it is a movie soundtrack, a Jazz session, a classical piece, or a sound of passing steam locomotors.


Also, you hear a lot of great recordings of full orchestral music within today's movie soundtracks, and I do not think the recording engineer "tweak" the orchestral sound in a overtly different fashion for a movie DVD versus a music CD. When you say "95% movies," you are in fact still listening to lots of music, too, from the same set of speakers. Don't you want, then, your speakers to be pretty good for music as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Are Axiom and Paradigm good examples of "bright" vs "laid back"? I thought both tried to be neutral...When I heard the Paradigm Studio 100's I wouldn't have said there were "laid back".


I would have listed Klipsch w/SS AVR DACs as "bright" and Rockets or DynAudio as "laid back".


When you do your listening check loud sounds of metal on metal, gun movements, and other sounds that might be perceived as too bright. These are the types of sounds that some may not like in HT on bright speakers.


I usually start listening to music first...you could listen to movies with lot's of music like Amadeus.


Try to replicate the electronic setup of your home (ideally listen in home). I've found the DAC on my receiver can be much brighter than analog connections.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i wasn't necessarily asking which brand but which type. i guess its subjective. I'm not even sure if ill be able to tell the difference between bright and laid back.


what would bose acoustamass 15 be considered?


Ive auditioned mirage omnisats and i thought they sounded better but im not sure if they would be laid back or bright.


the speakers I'm considering are axiom and i will prolly not be able to audition them due to them being mainly on-line retail. Ive read they can be a tad "bright"


what are some examples of "bright" brands? laid back brands? thank you for your advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Bose Acoustimass is really classified as junk! Paper cones and big holes in the frequency spectrum make them sound horrible.


Personally I like the smooth sound of the Rockets.


But if I had to buy satellites I personally would go for the Definitive Technology Pro Cinema 100 series.


Listen to alot of speakers and then buy!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
172 Posts
Just to clarify, some paper cones are fantastic, and are used in some really well known brands. However, Bose use "crap" grade paper cones. That's why Bose is classifed as "junk" grade.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
172 Posts
By the way, does anyone know if Dr. Bose is still alive?


Was Bose always this way (using junk grade materials), or is this a recent phenomenon? Bose has been in business for a long time now. Did they EVER make any quality product?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
In the early 80's Bose was controversial with the 901....some loved it...but others didn't. They seem to have high customer satisfaction, a strong brand name within a certain segment of the population (on-line they are the butt of all jokes) and are innovators in marketing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,607 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Fourseasons
By the way, does anyone know if Dr. Bose is still alive?
Yes... as well as still teaching acoustics at MIT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Quote:
what are some examples of "bright" brands? laid back brands? thank you for your advice.
Hoots had it right. I would say the Klipsch would be an example of "brighter" and more "aggressive" brands; the Rockets be "mellower" and more "laid-back" side -- Mr. Schifter himself freely state here that it is intentionally designed that way. I personally do not consider either Axiom or Paradigm as particularly bright (forward) or laid-back (dark). But again, all these terms are merely relative -- relative with respect to brands, and relative with respect to listeners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
If you listen to some movies as many as you want untill you are happy and like what you hear,than listen to music ,plenty of music and you love what you hear does it really matter who says what speaker is laid back or bright if you really love what you heard.



What if Sushi said Klipsch is bright which there are and others and myself said there laid back. But you wanted laid back speakers and do not even know why,so you buy and hate them who would you blame.


Take some good advice and I do not have much to offer but listen to as much as your ears can handle,go out as much as you can and listen and listen and listen ans if you love them who cares what anybody says about them as long as you are happy with what you buy.


Now if you find two pairs you love listen till you are sure which one you want and buy them.This is just IMHO please do not take offense to this. Buy what sounds good to you.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,130 Posts
Sushi:


What about relative with respect to neutrality, as in what goes in comes out unchanged? This to me is should be the goal of any speaker: neutrality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Quote:
What about relative with respect to neutrality, as in what goes in comes out unchanged? This to me is should be the goal of any speaker: neutrality.
tonygeno,


That is THE question, isn't it? :D First of all, I have to say that I agree 100% with you that neutrality is, at least in theory, the "absolute" goal of any speaker.


The question is whether there is possibly a way to evaluate "neutrality" of speaker sound in a objective and practically feasible fashion. Perhaps, if you would possibly manufacture a speaker which has a virtually flat anechoic frequency response (like amps), less than 0.1% anechoic distortion over 20Hz-20kHz (like amps), and very wide and flat dispersion characteristics (omnidirectional measurement microphones may come close), then you may be able to claim that this speaker is much closer to neutrality as compared with the speakers available today. However, the reality remains, you cannot tame the speaker's frequency response even within +/- 5dB most of the case. THD readily shoots up to a few % or more in bass frequencies. Intermodulation distortions are also inevitable in speakers.


So, comparing all these awfully "crappy" speakers, how can you possibly "rank" their neutrality? I know that people have done a series of true "blind" tests with regard to this point. You have, say, a small chamber group of musicians on the stage in the listening room, as well as pairs of speakers being tested. Between the stage and the listers is an acoustically transparent curtain, so that the listener cannot see what is going on. Before the test, the tester repeatedly records the performance of the same piece by this chamber group in this identical setting. So, the tester can either ask the artists to perform live (behind the curtain), or playback one of the pre-recorded passages, in a random order. With truly good speakers, they can actually fool the listeners sometimes into thinking that it is a live performance. Then, the more often a given speaker is able to fool the listener, the more "neutral" the speaker is judged to be...


My point is that there is no routinely practical way of objectively assessing the "neutrality" of speaker sound. On the other hand, "subjective neutrality" or "naturalness" heavily depends on what kind of sounds the individual is accustomed to, so those are no less "relative" than other subjective attributes, like "bright" or "laid-back." Unfortunately, human auditory memory is very short-lived. So, when I say that my "golden reference" of speaker sound is the live classical concerts, I am fully aware that it is still a highly subjective index (although I believe that it is more objective than judging the speaker sound based on the reproduction of, say, electric guitars and synthesizer drums)...
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top