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Brightness bug spotted in 1080p-mode of HD-A30

1380 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by SkyCyberguy, Jan 17, 2008

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · Jan 16, 2008

Hi there!

Today I got my HD-A30 and spotted a bug: With resolution set to 1080p the black level/brightness of the picture is too low, the picture is significantly darker than in 1080i/720p/480i/p modes and also darker than other HDMI devices. I set mine to 1080i now, for the time being, but already sent an email to Toshiba.

I hope one of the next firmware updates will fix it...

Greets

SkyCyberguy

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

gsw

· #2 · Jan 17, 2008

Is it possible your TV stores settings by both input and scan rate? So it would use different settings for 1080i vs 1080p. Easy to check...

Rich86

· #3 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsw /forum/post/12838789

Is it possible your TV stores settings by both input and scan rate? So it would use different settings for 1080i vs 1080p. Easy to check...

also - have you applied the 1.3 firmware update in case this helps at all?

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 17, 2008

@ both

Rest assured that I know how to setup my TV and that I, of course, have the latest firmware installed on the player.

The Problem has nothing to do with my TV or other components, it's definitely a player issue.

Just throw in a test-DVD with grey scale pattern and compare 1080i to 1080p - you will agree with me.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

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Joel802

· #5 · Jan 17, 2008

I had a similar issue with my PS3 as a blu ray player. The brightness and the contrast is way too high. I have my contrast as low as it can go and it is still bright. So I know exactly what you mean.

Cheers

PooperScooper

· #6 · Jan 17, 2008

With the last few FW versions there's nothing wrong with the PS3 via HDMI. And with the A30 issue reported, it's not uncommon for some displays to require different calibration settings for different resolutions and video/timings. I don't see the reported issue with my A35. In order for the grayscale to be different digital video the player would have to go out of its way to modify each pixel value that comes off the disc. It happens with PC RGB conversion, but that's usually about it. It will be interesting to see what others have to say.

larry

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 17, 2008

@ Joel802

Too high compared to what?

The output levels of the PS3 do exactly match the standards, so either you did something wrong in the PS3's settings (if you have a TV that's roughly up-to-date, try setting color space to YUV, rather than RGB, and super white to "on") or with your TV.

@ PooperScooper

As I said previously, the problem lies within the player, not my TV-setup. With all other devies (PS3, XBox360) there is no difference in brightness whether I choose 1080i oder 1080p. Only with the HD-A30 brightness drops noticeably in 1080p mode.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

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Foxbat121

· #8 · Jan 17, 2008

I wonder if this could be caused by the following:

(1) The A30 and TV didn't handshake well and A30 resorted to RGB output instead of YUV output on HDMI.

(2) The old black crush problem on A20 with RGB output still carries over to A30 and hence you got the results.

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 17, 2008

@ Foxbat121

In all cases you mention: WHY does it work fine in 1080i mode?

A software bug is the only (and not sooo unusual) explanation.

I bet my ass that everyone here who owns an HD-A30 and compares it with a test-DVD will experience the same and agree with me.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

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Foxbat121

· #10 · Jan 17, 2008

I didn't say this is not a software bug. HDMI compatibility and RGB output handling on old HD DVD players are well known firmware issues. However, since you're the only one report this problem so far. I'd guess there are other factors that others didn't have. After all it is not that there is only 10 A30 users out there and none know much about video calibrating.

griffon2k

· #11 · Jan 17, 2008

I have an A30 hooked up to a Toshiba 47HL167, and have tested films on all settings.

Most recently I tested Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix on both the HD and SD sides of the combo disc at resoultions 480p, 1080i, 1080p60 and 1080p24.

Other movies I tested these resolutions on recently are:

Knocked Up (SD DVD)

the Bourne films (HD)

Artificial Intelligence (SD)

Batman Begins (SD)

AVP (SD)

Kill Bill (SD)

Sunshine (SD)

Resident Evil Apocalypse (SD)

There was no change in brightness at either resolution. I believe this issue is likely a calibration issue.

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SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 17, 2008

@ griffon2k

Well don't expect to see it with bare movies on first sight.

Throw in a test-dvd (THX optimizer for example) and compare 1080p to 1080i with the test pic where you are asked to set the brightness, so that the dark grey thx-logo is just barely visible. In 1080i-mode it's visible, in 1080p it's not. On the other hand, when you calibrate your display brightness in 1080p mode, so the logo is visible, in 1080i mode then the drop shadow beneath it (which is supposed to be NOT visible) gets visible. That's real proof you just can't achieve with most movies.

And, yes, Foxbat121, I believe just a very small percentage of people use test discs to calibrate their picture and just because the issue doesn't jump their eyes with "normal" movies they tend to think there is no issue - griffon2k just made my point (no offense though).

Greets

Cyguy

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griffon2k

· #13 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyCyberguy /forum/post/12844543

@ griffon2k

Well don't expect to see it with bare movies on first sight.

Throw in a test-dvd (THX optimizer for example) and compare 1080p to 1080i with the test pic where you are asked to set the brightness, so that the dark grey thx-logo is just barely visible. In 1080i-mode it's visible, in 1080p it's not.

And, yes, Foxbat121, I believe just a very small percentage of people use test discs to calibrate their picture and just becaus the issue doesn't jump their eyes with "normal" movies they tend to think the issue isn't there - griffon2k just made my point (no offense).

Greets

Cyguy

I don't think I made your point actually, and I'm glad you mentioned the THX Optimizer. I've run the THX optimizer several times over the past 2 months while I was fine tuning my settings on my 47HL167 using the Star Wars DVDs.

On that screen, the brightness did not change regardless of the resolution settings. I know this because I switched between the resolutions on the optimizer to make sure my settings were being calibrated correctly since I was using an SD disc on an HDTV.

Again, I think you have an display calibration issue.

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 17, 2008

@griffon

I think a calibration issue is out of the question, since my display works fine with all other devices (PS3, XBox360) that can display 1080p as well as 1080i.

On the PS3 and XBOX360 (when I still had the HD-drive) the brightness was the same, regardless of the resolution.

Only with the HD-A30 the brightness is the same in ALL resolutions, EXEPT the 1080p60 and 1080p24-settings.

So it can't be a calibration issue, it must have to do with the player itself.

And if you really don't have that problem: Maybe it's a compatibility-issue with Displays other than Toshiba, which would also lead to a faulty firmware again.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

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griffon2k

· #15 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyCyberguy /forum/post/12844774

@griffon

I think a calibration issue is out of the question, since my display works fine with all other devices (PS3, XBox360) that can display 1080p as well as 1080i.

On the PS3 and XBOX360 (when I still had the HD-drive) the brightness was the same, regardless of the resolution.

Only with the HD-A30 the brightness is the same in ALL resolutions, EXEPT the 1080p60 and 1080p24-settings.

So it can't be a calibration issue, it must have to do with the player itself.

And if you really don't have that problem: Maybe it's a compatibility-issue with Displays other than Toshiba, which would also lead to a faulty firmware again.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

I really don't have that problem, and I don't believe that is only because I'm using a Toshiba display as others in this thread don't seem to be having the issue either and I doubt we all have Toshiba displays.

Other than having adjusted the RGB settings on your A30, I don't know what could have caused this issue for you, and even with those changes, it would only affect 480 content displayed over component.

Have you seen this problem on anything other than a THX Optimizer disc? Maybe some movies we could test?

PooperScooper

· #16 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyCyberguy /forum/post/12844774

@griffon

I think a calibration issue is out of the question, since my display works fine with all other devices (PS3, XBox360) that can display 1080p as well as 1080i.

On the PS3 and XBOX360 (when I still had the HD-drive) the brightness was the same, regardless of the resolution.

Only with the HD-A30 the brightness is the same in ALL resolutions, EXEPT the 1080p60 and 1080p24-settings.

So it can't be a calibration issue, it must have to do with the player itself.

And if you really don't have that problem: Maybe it's a compatibility-issue with Displays other than Toshiba, which would also lead to a faulty firmware again.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

Sure is strange. What display? Is BTB and/or WTW clipped in 1080p (or 1080i)? Does you display say what type of video is being input, eg. YCbCr 4:4:4, RGB, etc?

larry

SkyCyberguy

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 17, 2008

@ griffon

Once I saw it on the THX test disc I notice it in every movie that I watch, no matter if DVD or HD-DVD.

In "The Matrix" for example, in the opening scene, where the police infiltrate the house where Trinity is sitting on the table and puts her hands on her head - throughout the entire scene you see many details drown in the blacks.

"300" is another example - I can directly compare the Blu-ray from my PS3 with the HD-DVD from my HD-A30. With the HD-A30 set to 1080p the picture is darker than the Blu-ray (no matter if the PS3 is set to 1080i oder 1080p), with the HD-A30 in 1080i mode the picture brightness is identical to the PS3s.

My display, the Panasonic TH42-PZ700 is one of the best displays currently available and, as I mentioned before, had no problems of that sort at all so far with other components.

@PooperScooper

What does BTB/WTW mean? If you refer to picture overscan: No, the display is set to "pixel to pixel mode", the overscan in turned off.

The Display (Panasonic TH42-PZ700) does not provide detailed information about the input signal - it just says "1080p" oder "1080i".

As I understood, all HD-DVD-players so far only output RGB, no YUV.

As long as RGB is set to "limited" or "standard" that shouldn't be a problem though - also because 1080i works correctly.

Greets

SkyCyberguy

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