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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It amazes me that the first real Hollywood copy protection battle

that appears it will be settled is the "broadcast flag". So now a lot

of money, mostly consumer money, will be invested in stopping

people from "stealing"..... off the air programs, which were broadcast

free in the first place. Could Hollywood have picked a more lame issue

to go after ?
 

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What is mind boggling to me is why anyone would want to copy the drivel thats on broadcast TV anyway.
 

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Quote:
What is mind boggling to me is why anyone would want to copy the drivel thats on broadcast TV anyway
For most of us, broadcast TV includes PBS-HD, which has some of the most mind bogglingly beautiful stuff out there. I wish that DirecTV could pass along the national PBS-HD feed.
 

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You know, it would be nice if we could have just one thread about copy-protecting broadcast programming that doesn't include some holier-than-thou comment about how there's nothing worth copying on broadcast TV anyway.


Pipe dream, I know. :)


To be at least a little on-topic, do you think they're more concerned about TV series, or showing movies on broadcast TV?


(OT: didn't the forum request that folks remove equipment lists from their .sigs because it screws up searches?)
 

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Quote:
OT: didn't the forum request that folks remove equipment lists from their .sigs because it screws up searches?
Chris,


Try a search. You can't find the items in his signature.


I think that policy was set when we were on Unbelieveably Bloated Board (UBB) which is not database-driven. :D :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie
AFAIK, it not to prevent copying. It's to prevent download to the internet. If that's truly all it's for then I'm fine with it.
A little more to the point, why would anyone in Hollywerid get worked up

that people are sending old "simpsons" shows to each other ? The only

concevable rationale is that people might be sending the shows from one

market to another and (gasp !) not getting the commericals meant for

them.
 

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Apparently you have not been DVD shopping lately. I would stop transmission of old episodes as well so that I could resell them for $149.99 Like season 1 of the xfiles. Those were originally aired for FREE.
 

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Come on guys - get a clue! After all the discussion on these boards and that on the EFF's BPDG site, you're still wondering what all this is about? Since it's clear - as you've already pointed out - that their announced "problem" has little or nothing to do with their proposed "solution", it should be obvious that the whole thing is a scam. You can get the picture here - The open PC is dead - start praying, says HD guru - but here's the key point (IMHO):
Quote:
...the only business model that many companies seem to be trying these days is one that collects money every month from every household. No one wants to "sell" a product, they only want to "rent" something or provide a "service". These products and services are usually proprietary and have carefully crafted and limited functionality.
He goes on to predict Hollywood's ultimate victory as follows:
Quote:
So have fun fighting the battle against CPRM and alike but please do not be surprised when you fail, after all the war has been lost, long live the new world order: proprietary devices, proprietary interfaces, copy protection, limited functionality, and prepare your credit card accounts for all those monthly rental and service charges you will be paying for every "computer controller consumer electronics device" you use.
That's what it's all about folks. It all part and parcel of Mr. Gates and Mr. Valenti's dream of a world in which all your home electronic devices are simply dumb terminals through which they can send you content (for a fee). And they are enlisting their not inconsiderable dollars and political leverage to achieve that goal. Utimately, I think however they are doomed to fail, for the reasons pointed out here: The Futility of Digital Copy Prevention . As the author puts it:
Quote:
Digital files cannot be made uncopyable, any more than water can be made not wet.
- Dale
 

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Just because a show has had one or two network broadcasts doesn't mean it is "old". The real value of a long running network show is realized when it gets sold to syndication, and if people could get any show they wanted for free on the net, it would considerably reduce its syndication value.


I am against onerous copy protection, but a broadcast flag is something different. If the only purpose is to block internet retransmission, then it's a good thing. TV shows or movies don't belong on the internet unless you have paid for them (like VOD).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz
Just because a show has had one or two network broadcasts doesn't mean it is "old". The real value of a long running network show is realized when it gets sold to syndication, and if people could get any show they wanted for free on the net, it would considerably reduce its syndication value.
To who? Come on Vic. When JAG is running 5 days a week in syndication on cable, am I going to bother to download a copy off the internet that I can just turn on my set and watch? And what stopped me from saving a copy of the original broadcast on tape? Syndication is a very weak justification for a "broadcast flag". In fact, so weak that it isn't even mentioned by the BPDG as a rationale.
 

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Well, keep VOD off the net - we have cableco's, OTA's and if the telcos get their act together a high speed fiberized phone system.


All that's needed is enough CP to make casual pirating difficult - such as intelligent software players that allow 1 or 2 replays of non-original media (hard-drive recorded) IP. You'll never stop the pros.


The CP once in place can be used for other purposes than preventing illicit file-swapping. Giving MPAA absolute control of DTV and PC hardware is very scary.
 

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I do not know how the broadcast flag will work but I can not imagine any scheme that could properly identify copy protected material if encrypted binary files of unknown type were being sent over the Internet.


To me this means that they will eventually want to only allow recognizable and approved files to be transmitted, or even displayed. This would of course be unacceptable and unworkable, requiring only certified programmers to write programs that could handle multimedia.


- Tom
 

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Again, we're talking about two different things here. The broadcast flag is NOT copy protection. In fact, it has nothing to do with copies. It is more like "retransmission protection". It is a watermark that will prevent digital content from being transmitted on the internet, that's all. It cannot prevent you from making as many copies as you want, as long as they stay in your own house or local home network. The systems that will prevent you from making copies (HDCP, DTCP, DFAST, PHILA, etc.) are the ones that we should be fighting. This is not one of them.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DaleBarrett
To who? Come on Vic. When JAG is running 5 days a week in syndication on cable, am I going to bother to download a copy off the internet that I can just turn on my set and watch? And what stopped me from saving a copy of the original broadcast on tape? Syndication is a very weak justification for a "broadcast flag". In fact, so weak that it isn't even mentioned by the BPDG as a rationale.
See what was posted on this forum just a few days ago:


"I don't consider myself a normal user by any stretch of the imagination, but I recently got hooked on the show Smallville. This weekend since there is no other way for me to get the series I downloaded the first 7 episodes. Thats about 900 megs right there. "


The key is that the internet provides television or movies that are available at no other way at this time.


The ability to create DVDs on a personal computer combined with the internet is going to magnify the problem exponentially.


Imagine even one DVD quality copy of Harry Potter which reached the internet even briefly while the movie was in the theatres . It isn't just that it could be downloaded. It is that it could be then be copied and given to friends who in turn could copy for their friends or make it available for copy again on the internet.
 

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Vic,


I'm afraid I'm with Tom. How is watermarking going to prevent Peer-To-Peer file sharing of encrypted files? Bits is just bits. Once it's wrapped up in an encoded file, where's the watermark? And once it's unwrapped on the other end, who's to say how it got there? From the internet or another PC in my house? I don't see how it's going to work. And moreover, I'm afraid that anything they could done which would make it work would prevent sharing any files - an unacceptable solution. Besides, there are too many smart folks in the world. Anything that one smart guy can be dream up to stop "unauthorized" distribution, another can find a way around. It's a waste of energy.


Dale
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Sh



See what was posted on this forum just a few days ago:


"I don't consider myself a normal user by any stretch of the imagination, but I recently got hooked on the show Smallville. This weekend since there is no other way for me to get the series I downloaded the first 7 episodes. Thats about 900 megs right there. "


The key is that the internet provides television or movies that are available at no other way at this time.


The ability to create DVDs on a personal computer combined with the internet are going to magnify the problem exponentially.


Imagine even one DVD quality copy of Harry Potter which reached the internet even briefly while the movie was in the theatres . It isn't just that it could be downloaded. It is that it could be then be copied and given to friends who in turn could copy for their friends or make it available for copy again on the internet.
Ok, take a deep breath. First, as is indicated above, the wacko you quote is not a normal user. I like Smallville too but I'm not downloading off the internet, I'm watching the reruns right now. Second, how did we jump from downloading copies of a FREE broadcast TV show to "DVD quality" copies of Harry Potter? And from where would this DVD quality copy come while the movie was in the theaters? And what "DVD Quality" format is this going to be retransmitted on the internet in? You're proposing that I accept a solution for a problem which doesn't exist.


And how is downloading "Smallville" a problem in the first place? It is now reaching a viewer who missed the original broadcast, thus expanding the target audience by 1. Or effectively accomplishing exactly the same thing that he would have accomplished with previously existing "time-shifting" technology had he had the foresight to do so. I'm afraid that your concerns are much ado about nothing, IMHO.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DaleBarrett



And how is downloading "Smallville" a problem in the first place?
It isn't a problem to you but it is to the advertisers and thus to the networks and thus to the content owners. Downloaded programs are not measured in Nielsen figures and so advertisers won't pay for those viewers. There is no assurance that the commercials were not simply skipped. Even if they aren't skipped some ads are time sensitive. If he watches the first episode of Smallville which is now months old he will be watching ads that are months old. What good is an ad for a September movie or a September sale to the advertiser.


Just as I doubt anyone with the X-Files DVD will watch it on TV, so I doubt that anyone with Smallville on disc will watch it on TV. If I have the Smallville disc from the internet why would I want to buy one. Smallville discs can only reduce viewers for the summer reruns ads and for syndication ads.



The ability to copy DVDs is important. One of the impediments to downloading now is the amount of time and expertise it requires. If one person downloads and hands out copies to four of his friends, his four friends have to do nothing but put the disc in the player. Copying discs will be much faster and less traceable than anything on the internet. This is why part of the current controversy is whether or not all data must be scrambled when written to a DVD, so that only an authorized device could read it.
 
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