Any thoughts here? I am very confused.
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BTB/WTW the best test pattern
I am confused, how do I know if my HTPC is sending BTB and WTW?
What pattern will show me ? What should I use
What pattern will show me ? What should I use
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Use one of the files from here . Play the brightness pattern (black screen with flashing bars). Turn up brightness on your display. If you can never see anything flashing below 16, then you are not passing BTB. If you can, then you are.
IF you meanb Bob deinerlating by BTB and Weave de-interlacing by WTW what about Vetor Adaptive de-interlacing which is far better then either Bob or Weave?
What resolution are you sending over what interface from your PC from what video source to what make/model of display using what make/model of graohics card? Answers to this question will help us in being able to help you.
What resolution are you sending over what interface from your PC from what video source to what make/model of display using what make/model of graohics card? Answers to this question will help us in being able to help you.
Use the HD TS file from here: http://www.w6rz.net/ramp.zip
It has a full 1-254 grey scale ramp. The vertical dotted lines indicate 16 and 232 respectively. You should be able to see whiter whites and blacker blacks beyond the dotted lines.
If your setup is calibrated correctly (with correct video levels) the projected bars for a 2.35 movie HD movie will be lighter than you projected desktop (16 vs 0) which you can see above/below the video image in the screen-shot below.
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It has a full 1-254 grey scale ramp. The vertical dotted lines indicate 16 and 232 respectively. You should be able to see whiter whites and blacker blacks beyond the dotted lines.
If your setup is calibrated correctly (with correct video levels) the projected bars for a 2.35 movie HD movie will be lighter than you projected desktop (16 vs 0) which you can see above/below the video image in the screen-shot below.
I did the following steps, just wondering if I did it right, I have got benq w1070 that I use with my pc:IF you meanb Bob deinerlating by BTB and Weave de-interlacing by WTW what about Vetor Adaptive de-interlacing which is far better then either Bob or Weave?
What resolution are you sending over what interface from your PC from what video source to what make/model of display using what make/model of graohics card? Answers to this question will help us in being able to help you.
1. Set RGB Full in Nvidia Control Panel for the W1070
2. Set PC mode in projector to enable full range on W1070
3. Go into Madvr and set RGB output levels to PC levels (0-255)
3. Now play the Black clipping video making sure there is nothing under 16 visible (which wont be visible no matter how much you turn the brightness up/down since we are outputting in 0-255 levels, I do see all the lines if I I set rgb output to TV in Madvr)
4. Do the same with other files
5. Calibration done
Now my question is should the calibration done when outputting the clipping video in PC levels or should it be done when outputting in TV level (16-255) using madvr with mpc-hc?
Thanks in advance.
I use this one: http://www.belle-nuit.com/test-chart
You'll want to download it and not use the attached one.
You'll want to download it and not use the attached one.
Attachments
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You can't calibrate using full range. As you said, it is already clipped. You will never see BTB no matter what brightness setting of your TV is. You will need limited range for this to work. But then again, since the age of digital video connection (HDMI/DVI), I have yet to encounter any of my new TVs needs any adjustment for BTB/WTW calibration. They all spot on out of box.I did the following steps, just wondering if I did it right, I have got benq w1070 that I use with my pc:
1. Set RGB Full in Nvidia Control Panel for the W1070
2. Set PC mode in projector to enable full range on W1070
3. Go into Madvr and set RGB output levels to PC levels (0-255)
3. Now play the Black clipping video making sure there is nothing under 16 visible (which wont be visible no matter how much you turn the brightness up/down since we are outputting in 0-255 levels, I do see all the lines if I I set rgb output to TV in Madvr)
4. Do the same with other files
5. Calibration done
Now my question is should the calibration done when outputting the clipping video in PC levels or should it be done when outputting in TV level (16-255) using madvr with mpc-hc?
Thanks in advance.
Question is why do we need to see lines below 16 since we care about only after 16 which we can see in full range and can be calibrated correctly. If I run it in limited range and adjust the brightness, w1070 and my monitor ends up being too dark making the video dark shots way less detailed.You can't calibrate using full range. As you said, it is already clipped. You will never see BTB no matter what brightness setting of your TV is. You will need limited range for this to work. But then again, since the age of digital video connection (HDMI/DVI), I have yet to encounter any of my new TVs needs any adjustment for BTB/WTW calibration. They all spot on out of box.
It really comes from the days of CRTs where there wasn't a definite cutoff, you would adjust the brightness setting until you could just no longer see the blacker-than-black on a pluge pattern. Though with most "digital" displays, really all you need to be able to do is confirm that you can distinguish digital 17 (one step above black) from 16 (black).Question is why do we need to see lines below 16 since we care about only after 16 which we can see in full range and can be calibrated correctly.
Sounds like it's not calibrated right for limited range. Of course you have to remember, the most important thing is that your source and display settings match, for example if your source is outputting full range and your display is configured for limited, it's likely you're crushing a lot of black/shadows and clipping a lot of highlights.If I run it in limited range and adjust the brightness, w1070 and my monitor ends up being too dark making the video dark shots way less detailed.
And mis-matches can't be calibrated away. No way.
To be clear, there are many factors in a HTPC that you need to make sure it matches the color space of your choosing (full range or limited range)
1. The playback software. Some are designed to output full range (WMP). Some are designed to output limited range (WMC) and some are configurable. The desktop is always full range as are most non-video apps.
2. The video card driver. Most offer a way to convert between full range and limited range. But be aware of double conversion, e.g. if the video is already played at limited range and the video driver does another conversion to limited range, it will cause problems.
3. TV or monitor. Most consumer TVs default to limited range. Most PC monitors are full-range only.
If all matched correctly, you should not see darkened or washed out colors.
To be clear, there are many factors in a HTPC that you need to make sure it matches the color space of your choosing (full range or limited range)
1. The playback software. Some are designed to output full range (WMP). Some are designed to output limited range (WMC) and some are configurable. The desktop is always full range as are most non-video apps.
2. The video card driver. Most offer a way to convert between full range and limited range. But be aware of double conversion, e.g. if the video is already played at limited range and the video driver does another conversion to limited range, it will cause problems.
3. TV or monitor. Most consumer TVs default to limited range. Most PC monitors are full-range only.
If all matched correctly, you should not see darkened or washed out colors.
2
I set RGB full in nvidia control panel - then set projector to PC (I dont think video card can do conversion again since under "adjust video color option in nvidia" IT says use video player settings)And mis-matches can't be calibrated away. No way.
To be clear, there are many factors in a HTPC that you need to make sure it matches the color space of your choosing (full range or limited range)
1. The playback software. Some are designed to output full range (WMP). Some are designed to output limited range (WMC) and some are configurable. The desktop is always full range as are most non-video apps.
2. The video card driver. Most offer a way to convert between full range and limited range. But be aware of double conversion, e.g. if the video is already played at limited range and the video driver does another conversion to limited range, it will cause problems.
3. TV or monitor. Most consumer TVs default to limited range. Most PC monitors are full-range only.
If all matched correctly, you should not see darkened or washed out colors.
So I did the following:It really comes from the days of CRTs where there wasn't a definite cutoff, you would adjust the brightness setting until you could just no longer see the blacker-than-black on a pluge pattern. Though with most "digital" displays, really all you need to be able to do is confirm that you can distinguish digital 17 (one step above black) from 16 (black).
Sounds like it's not calibrated right for limited range. Of course you have to remember, the most important thing is that your source and display settings match, for example if your source is outputting full range and your display is configured for limited, it's likely you're crushing a lot of black/shadows and clipping a lot of highlights.
1. Set RGB Full in Nvidia Control Panel for the W1070
2. Set PC mode in projector to enable full range on W1070
3. Go into Madvr and set RGB output levels to TV levels (16-235)
3. Now play the Black clipping video making sure there is nothing under 16 visible
4. Do the same with other files
5. Calibration done
Is that it? Now after this I change my madvr output level to PC?
When output is set to 16-235 in madvr after above calibration
when output is set to output PC levels
Does it look right if I output video at PC level which I want to since my graphic card is set to RGB full. I am missing details on the PC level picture!
Can someone tell me if the above 5 steps were done in right order and if wrong can correct them?
You set it wrong. Since your video player is output video level (16-235) and your TV is actually set to PC mode (0-255). It will never work correctly. You need to set MadVR output to PC mode (there is no way to calibrate in this mode) or set TV to TV mode (you can calibrate this way) and leave MadVR to 16-235 mode.
Switch to different mode typically doesn't retain your calibration. There is no sense to calibrate this way if you intend to use full range all the time.
Switch to different mode typically doesn't retain your calibration. There is no sense to calibrate this way if you intend to use full range all the time.
so what you are saying is do the following:You set it wrong. Since your video player is output video level (16-235) and your TV is actually set to PC mode (0-255). It will never work correctly. You need to set MadVR output to PC mode (there is no way to calibrate in this mode) or set TV to TV mode (you can calibrate this way) and leave MadVR to 16-235 mode.
Switch to different mode typically doesn't retain your calibration. There is no sense to calibrate this way if you intend to use full range all the time.
1. Set RGB Full in Nvidia Control Panel for the W1070
2. Set Video (TV) mode in projector to enable limited range on W1070
3. Go into Madvr and set RGB output levels to TV levels (16-235)
3. Now play the Black clipping video making sure there is nothing under 16 visible
4. Do the same with other files
5. Calibration done
is this right now?
Once calibration is done, change w1070 to PC mode and set RGB to PC levels in Madvr? Right??
Yes, but stop here. Don't do this:so what you are saying is do the following:
1. Set RGB Full in Nvidia Control Panel for the W1070
2. Set Video (TV) mode in projector to enable limited range on W1070
3. Go into Madvr and set RGB output levels to TV levels (16-235)
3. Now play the Black clipping video making sure there is nothing under 16 visible
4. Do the same with other files
5. Calibration done
is this right now?
If you want everything in PC levels, you need to set your w1070 to PC mode, and MadVR to PC, and calibrate that. Odds are, with HDMI, there's probably nothing to change, black and white levels are generally correct (once you pick the right PC/Video settings) since there's no ambiguity, black is 16 or 0, white is 235 or 255.Once calibration is done, change w1070 to PC mode and set RGB to PC levels in Madvr? Right??
If you're calibrating for PC levels, just make sure black (16 on your video test patterns) is as dark as possible with 17 still being visible.
Then you are wasting your time. You can only calibrate in limited range mode and keep using that mode. Switch to a different mode throws all your calibration away.Once calibration is done, change w1070 to PC mode and set RGB to PC levels in Madvr? Right??
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