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Discussion Starter #1
G'day,

I am contemplating whether to purchase a 2nd ML sub or build one from a kit. Buying another ML isn't desirable due to high purchase prices at the moment however I am not sure what kit if any out there would be a good match.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/balancedforce-210
 

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What is your budget?
 

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Discussion Starter #3

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Good question. Not sure what a DIY kit that is capable of coming close to the 210 is.
If we knew your budget, we'd be able to determine that for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If we knew your budget, we'd be able to determine that for you.
Let's put it this way, the sub other than the 210 would be the ML Dynamo 1600x which is around $1700.oo RRP. Less than that. Half way would be ideal IF possible.
 

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Let's put it this way, the sub other than the 210 would be the ML Dynamo 1600x which is around $1700.oo RRP. Less than that. Half way would be ideal IF possible.
That is actually EASY to do.... dual opposed 21" + amp is way less than $1700 and will crush dual 12" all day....

2x 21" drivers = $940
2 sheets of wood = $80
Amp with DSP = $400


DONE....


Juju
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That is actually EASY to do.... dual opposed 21" + amp is way less than $1700 and will crush dual 12" all day....


Juju
Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?

Cheers
 

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Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?

Cheers
So is this.... I find it funny that people buy commercial s&it then come to the DIY community asking for help then want to spew that their stuff is so much better. If you think that your ML is so superior then why are you here? Have you listened to anything DIY?

I would put that dual 21" up against your ML all day, any day and WIN every time. What most of us in this forum have will send your ML home crying... AND we didn't pay nearly as much as you did.... You could do A LOT with $3500 DIY...


Yes I have heard your ML.... my subs CRUSH IT is ALL aspects....



Juju
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So is this.... I find it funny that people buy commercial s&it then come to the DIY community asking for help then want to spew that their stuff is so much better. If you think that your ML is so superior then why are you here? Have you listened to anything DIY?

I would put that dual 21" up against your ML all day, any day and WIN every time. What most of us in this forum have will send your ML home crying... AND we didn't pay nearly as much as you did.... You could do A LOT with $3500 DIY...



Juju
Gee man, don't reply if you have issues please.
I posted because I do want to know if there is a DIY option just as good, either you can answer that or not but the condescending tone has no place here dude.
Yes I have heard great DIY that's why I am here but I need proper answers. Forgive me that I love the way that commercial crap sounds and that is my reference point. Can do better DIY? Hell that's what I want to know.
 

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Gee man, don't reply if you have issues please.
I posted because I do want to know if there is a DIY option just as good, either you can answer that or not but the condescending tone has no place here dude.
Yes I have heard great DIY that's why I am here but I need proper answers. Forgive me that I love the way that commercial crap sounds and that is my reference point. Can do better DIY? Hell that's what I want to know.
Better DIY..... You can build a square box with 3 holes in it?

https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce-san21450-21-neodymium-subwoofer-8-ohm--293-732

Wood

https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nx3000d-ultra-lightweight-class-d-3000w-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-7013?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6L7E-tSa6AIV54FaBR2NUwooEAYYAyABEgIi7PD_BwE

Don't forget terminals, wire and stuffing..... Done...

Juju
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmm thanks. That's only rated down to 30hz or am I not reading it correctly?
 

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Hmm thanks. That's only rated down to 30hz or am I not reading it correctly?
Ummmm.... I see that you don't know how speaker and acoustics work..... got it.... yes it will play way below 30Hz in a sealed box....



Juju
 

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C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.

OP, Juju has given you a very good suggestion though. That 21” driver isn’t particularly designed for a sealed box, but will still work decently well. Running it sealed will allow it to integrate very nicely with your existing sealed sub. Yes, the driver is designed to be optimized for performance at higher frequencies, but it works very well down low too due to its large cone-displacement capability and high motor force.

Data-bass has actually tested that driver in a sealed box as well.
https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d03f339d349e90004d8fcd5?_k=me75ll

It will require significant eq to get the frequency response you want, and more to correct for room issues. The amp juju recommended does have full eq capability built in.

If you would prefer to split the difference, and gain significant performance with a good diy-style driver, but with the build and EQ already done, check out offerings from PSA or JTR.
Here’s a sealed 18” from PSA:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s1812

That uses the B&C 18ds115 driver, and will absolutely blow away the ML sub you linked at a similar price point. Yes, the sound quality will be as good or better too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Ummmm.... I see that you don't know how speaker and acoustics work..... got it.... yes it will play way below 30Hz in a sealed box....



Juju
Dude you've got serious issues please don't reply. One day you'll get into a field you know nothing about and karma will find you.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.

OP, Juju has given you a very good suggestion though. That 21” driver isn’t particularly designed for a sealed box, but will still work decently well. Running it sealed will allow it to integrate very nicely with your existing sealed sub. Yes, the driver is designed to be optimized for performance at higher frequencies, but it works very well down low too due to its large cone-displacement capability and high motor force.

Data-bass has actually tested that driver in a sealed box as well.
https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d03f339d349e90004d8fcd5?_k=me75ll

It will require significant eq to get the frequency response you want, and more to correct for room issues. The amp juju recommended does have full eq capability built in.

If you would prefer to split the difference, and gain significant performance with a good diy-style driver, but with the build and EQ already done, check out offerings from PSA or JTR.
Here’s a sealed 18” from PSA:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s1812

That uses the B&C 18ds115 driver, and will absolutely blow away the ML sub you linked at a similar price point. Yes, the sound quality will be as good or better too.
That sounds very good Sir thank you. I was planning to get a mini DSP to integrate it all together, would that work?
I'll have a lot of reading to do obviously but I first wanted to get a basic idea of what was out there against my current sub.
I might end up selling the ML and use the $$ to build two.
 

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That sounds very good Sir thank you. I was planning to get a mini DSP to integrate it all together, would that work?

I'll have a lot of reading to do obviously but I first wanted to get a basic idea of what was out there against my current sub.

I might end up selling the ML and use the $$ to build two.


The minidsp is a great solution, its what I use in my setup as well. The nx3000d actually has the same eq capability, but the minidsp has lower crossover capability (10hz vs 20hz).
You can buy the nx3000 for cheaper, which doesn’t have the eq.

If you’re going to sell your sub and build two, going ported would be a better option.

A good way to get into diy would be a flatpack setup. Gsg has many nice options, these 21” cubes are a great one.
https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/roundover-martysubs-v2-0-21-flat-packs/products/roundover-21-inch-cube-two-pack
Check out the rest of the site, lots of options.

Of course, it is way cheaper to build from scratch if you are confident in your woodworking abilities, and have the necessary tools.

Chris
 

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C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.
I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Chris I'll read through all those links and options. It will be my next project they way it looks. I'll probably build one and see if I screw it up but if it works fine i'll probably make a second identical one. Lots to learn and fiddle with but its all fun and games.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju
That's your interpretation of what I said Juju , have you heard the ML subs? have you read pro reviews etc before getting upset ?

I was looking for proper advice such as what Chris has given me. I am a beginner in the field yes, you were once too but you seem to forget that. Over and out.
 

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Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?
i had the same concerns about music and price, so i got a DS1510 with H600PEQ3 amp, and stuck it into an old hsu sonosub that i had laying around, but i sealed it, instead of venting: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS1500ci.html

rythmic audio uses servo feedback from the sub, that tells the amp the position of the cone, it works really well for music... i used rew and a mic for optimal placement in the room, which made a big difference, including huge gain on the very low end, in part because it's a pretty small room.

i would suggest that if you haven't used rew or something similar before, do that before anything else, because you'll definitely need it for adding a second sub... room treatment would also be a good idea, you can measure the difference it makes with rew.
 
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