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Discussion Starter #21
i had the same concerns about music and price, so i got a DS1510 with H600PEQ3 amp, and stuck it into an old hsu sonosub that i had laying around, but i sealed it, instead of venting: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS1500ci.html

rythmic audio uses servo feedback from the sub, that tells the amp the position of the cone, it works really well for music... i used rew and a mic for optimal placement in the room, which made a big difference, including huge gain on the very low end, in part because it's a pretty small room.

i would suggest that if you haven't used rew or something similar before, do that before anything else, because you'll definitely need it for adding a second sub... room treatment would also be a good idea, you can measure the difference it makes with rew.
Thank you that's also great info. I am using REW to keep improving the room and setup especially after improving on treatment. I have DIY absorbers and combo panels placed, I am having a tough time with bass absorption though due to room dimension.
 

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That's your interpretation of what I said Juju , have you heard the ML subs? have you read pro reviews etc before getting upset ?

I was looking for proper advice such as what Chris has given me. I am a beginner in the field yes, you were once too but you seem to forget that. Over and out.
Yes I have heard those subs.... are they nice? Yes... are they special? NOPE.


Juju
 

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I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju


I didn’t take it that way at all. All I got is that he is very happy with his ML sub and doesn’t want to end up with a lower quality result.
This is a very fair concern, as I’m sure all of us have heard truly awful diy builds, usually automotive.

Considering the $3500 msrp of the ML sub, its easy to get the you-get-what-you-pay-for mindset. However, a dual-opposed sub is so simple, that really all you’re paying for is the ML name. I’m sure their EQ is good, but they can’t deal with YOUR room, so that makes it somewhat irrelevant.

Now if we hold diy to the size constraints of the ML, we can’t really beat it. You still end up with a dual-opposed sealed 10”. However, the cost will be closer to $500 than $3500.
If you let the size increase, diy can easily win on both output and cost.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I didn’t take it that way at all. All I got is that he is very happy with his ML sub and doesn’t want to end up with a lower quality result.

Chris
Precisely.
 

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It will be my next project they way it looks. I'll probably build one and see if I screw it up but if it works fine i'll probably make a second identical one. Lots to learn and fiddle with but it's all fun and games.
Dude, I sure hope you know what you're getting yourself into...There's a sickness around these parts:p Down the Rabbit hole you go
 
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Discussion Starter #26
Dude, I sure hope you know what you're getting yourself into...There's a sickness around these parts:p Down the Rabbit hole you go
Yep I suspected that might be the case and it will be a never ending story but that is one of the reasons why I am looking into it as I can only do so much with ready made devices and I simply don't want to fork out huge amounts of $$ on subs anymore no matter how good they are, especially as I am getting into multiple subs. I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey :)
 

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Yep I suspected that might be the case and it will be a never ending story but that is one of the reasons why I am looking into it as I can only do so much with ready made devices and I simply don't want to fork out huge amounts of $$ on subs anymore no matter how good they are, especially as I am getting into multiple subs. I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey :)


Since it sounds like you are already familiar with REW and eq, I can promise you will succeed as long as your build quality is good.

The danger is the changing perspective on what is “good” or “enough”.

I can attest to being a victim of this, as I am currently in my shop working on an 80” tall subwoofer enclosure.

Chris
 

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I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey :)
I don't believe this community will allow you to fail:) Mistakes, for sure. Fail, not a chance! Your journey will be epic. Just make sure you post lots of pics:)
 
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Discussion Starter #29
I'm happy to make mistakes as long as I can correct them. Thanks for the enthusiasm it gives me confidence. I will start looking into options in the next few days and most likely will start working on the first one in a few weeks as time and budget allows. Hopefully the global virus drama won't affect things much in terms of shipping and supply.
I'll be back here for sure asking questions and posting progress :)
Looking forward to this.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
also following this guy:


he is one of the reasons why I got interested in DIY.
 

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Chris and others have given you some good advice.

Before you go further, I recommend you spend some time answering the questions in https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/989316-want-advice-what-sub-purchase-please-read-before-posting.html, as they apply to the DIY realm as well. Read them and answer honestly.

YouTube videos don't really cut it around here. Be specific in what you're looking for (including budget, max size, etc.). Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for a lot of nothing (or questions that could have already been answered).

I recommend reading through some of the existing build threads to familiarize yourself with DIY. When you have specific questions this is a great community to call on.
 

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Most of the stuff written by ML on their sub is simply BS. The balanced force junk. Ugh. Dual opposed don't cancel cabinet vibrations. Vibrations on the cabinet are caused by 2 things; the pressure difference from the woofer moving in & out, and the mass of the speaker moving in and out. Dual opposed cancels out the mass movement vibes, but doesn't do anything for the pressure vibes. Make sense?

Commercial units tend to be sub-par components, or decent (at best) but their implementation tends to be very very good. DIY tends to be far more capable but a lot of us struggle with appropriate implementation. Bottom line is that it's going to be very easy to exceed the performance of the ML sub, but you're going to have to learn how to adjust and correct in-room response to see a night and day difference. I'm talking no BS, no emperor's new clothes, etc.

As to how to beat the ML's performance... where to start. Bigger/better cones. Proper room eq. A big honking amplifier. DSP to allow you to dial things in. It's a long road. A simple sealed UM18 should kill it on every level once eq'd and dialed in.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #33
As to how to beat the ML's performance... where to start. Bigger/better cones. Proper room eq. A big honking amplifier. DSP to allow you to dial things in. It's a long road. A simple sealed UM18 should kill it on every level once eq'd and dialed in.

Chris
Yep I've been looking into just that thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Chris and others have given you some good advice.

Before you go further, I recommend you spend some time answering the questions in https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/989316-want-advice-what-sub-purchase-please-read-before-posting.html, as they apply to the DIY realm as well. Read them and answer honestly.

YouTube videos don't really cut it around here. Be specific in what you're looking for (including budget, max size, etc.). Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for a lot of nothing (or questions that could have already been answered).

I recommend reading through some of the existing build threads to familiarize yourself with DIY. When you have specific questions this is a great community to call on.
Thanks, I've started reading that thread, as time allows 'ill read as much as I can before getting started.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
So basically here are the requirements:

1, Budget: no real constraints however it would be nice to top out at around $1200.00 for the first one including shipping.
2, Size: It's a black cave dedicated room so as long as I don't see the sub in front of the screen its fine. I don't want 2m tall towers but up to 1m in size is the max however I can lay them flat on either side of the room so perhaps up to 1.5 meter. I am in Europe now hence I am using meters. If its an issue I'll convert
3, Room size is 52 cubic meter or 1800ish cubic feet
4, Primary uses: I'd say 80% movies and 10-10% music and games however I do love my music so looking for something that is suitable.
5, Listening habits: Sometimes I go nuts at reference levels but most of the time I listen at around -20 db and often lower and I love to hear and feel the low notes even at those lower levels.
6, Appearance requirements: not so important however if it looks good why not but again it's pitch dark in there.
7, Time frame: I am only starting to look into it so probably will be ordering parts in a few weeks time once I worked out what to.

Cheers

Andrew
 

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So basically here are the requirements:

1, Budget: no real constraints however it would be nice to top out at around $1200.00 for the first one including shipping.
Do you have the ability to locate the amp in another room? They are quite loud.

If you are handy with regards to woodworking, You can build cabs for the Lavoce 21" sub
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Do you have the ability to locate the amp in another room? They are quite loud.

If you are handy with regards to woodworking, You can build cabs for the Lavoce 21" sub
This is pretty much what I was looking at as well here:
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/300-7094.html

I am fine to do the woodwork so good savings there and if i needed help a full on carpentry is next door who can just do it for me.

I am in Europe.

As for the fan I can replace it with silent one no issues there.
 

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Jumping into DIY takes a lot of trust you just cannot go to the local electronics store and listen. I was on the fence as far as what to do and finally made the jump and have not looked back. If you have the time look at this site:
https://data-bass.com/#/?_k=fp0hxl
This will give you an idea of what some of the different subs are capable of. I found this site very helpful. A word of warning this can get very addictive and expensive since most here will say 1 sub is never enough. I started with one now I have 8 YUCK!!
 
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Discussion Starter #39
Jumping into DIY takes a lot of trust you just cannot go to the local electronics store and listen. I was on the fence as far as what to do and finally made the jump and have not looked back. If you have the time look at this site:
https://data-bass.com/#/?_k=fp0hxl
This will give you an idea of what some of the different subs are capable of. I found this site very helpful. A word of warning this can get very addictive and expensive since most here will say 1 sub is never enough. I started with one now I have 8 YUCK!!
Thanks and yes perfectly aware of the addiction and partly that is why I am doing as for now I can't improve the sound further as is :) I love to tinker and keep working on it. this is the next logical step forward. Getting one sub built and then keep going. If I sold my ML sub I could easily build two for the $$.
 

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This is pretty much what I was looking at as well here:
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/300-7094.html

I am fine to do the woodwork so good savings there and if i needed help a full on carpentry is next door who can just do it for me.

I am in Europe.

As for the fan I can replace it with silent one no issues there.
That is a great option as well. Would you ever be interested in a 21" driver?
 
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