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Build: LTD02 Cyclops Variant, 9.4cf, 18Hz, PA460

1804 Views 17 Replies 5 Participants Last post by jevchance, Oct 13, 2019

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · Oct 1, 2019 (Edited)

A special place in Heaven goes to @LTD02 for all he does.

Here is a variation of a Cyclops using the Dayton Audio PA460 in a 9.4cf box, tuned to 18Hz. I did not want the slot facing forward to hit my AT screen, and there is no room in back, so a side firing solution was requested with respect to getting the right size boxes to fit behind my screen and between my speakers. The plan is to get to reference into the mid teens with excellent midbass. 6 subs will be built, and stacks of 3 will placed between Elusive 1099 LCR's. 7.4 Atmos using Volt 10's for surrounds and Volt 6's for Atmos. Amplification of the subs will be with a single Behringer NX3000D.

The room is 14'x24' DDGG and either Hat channel, staggered stud, or double wall construction. The riser is not a bass trap design. The front wall has 11" brown fluffy behind Joann Fabric black speaker cloth. The screen is 120" wide 2.35 Spandex white over black. The floor is Mohawk Air.o, which has an integrated felt backing, laying over concrete. No other room treatments,...yet.

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bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #2 · Oct 1, 2019 (Edited)

Sketchup of the room

Lots of cut MDF

Initial Glue Up

Lots of Caulk

Slot braces

Notch the braces so they clear the corner where there is glue or caulk, otherwise it will not fit tight.

End panel

Predrill screw holes prior to installing braces. I first used a countersinking drill bit so the bugle head #8 x 2-1/2" would seat flush. Then I drilled the hole just wide enough so the screw would not bite into the MDF. That allows the braces to be pulled up tight against the MDF. I also predrilled the braces where they would be screwed into the other brace or into the slot board.

Internal braces using 2x4's. The pair of side braces are not shown in this photo.

Glued the baffle after already cutting out the speaker hole. I use 2x4's to help apply even pressure along the glue edge.

I put some oak screw blocks behind each of the woofer mounting screws because I do not trust MDF alone to hold the screws. Each block has a couple of staples through it to further prevent twisting and shearing. I used these same staples for all the joints, they apply better clamping pressure than just a brad

Toss in a pillow stapled in place

The PA460

Finished in flat black.

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bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 1, 2019

Reserved

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 1, 2019

Reserved!

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 1, 2019

Reserved!!

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 1, 2019

I am finishing up my second pair, and at 56" tall, that is the exact same height as my LCR's that are on pedestals. It is a tight fight between the subs and LCR's. That will not allow room for the ports to breathe. I do not want to move my LCR's, because the tweeters are now at ear level and they cannot be moved any wider.

I could seek out a redesign of the subs so that the port is side fired from the back, versus its current configuration of side firing from the bottom or top. Nah..., I'll build a 6" spacer. I should have enough room at the top.

Question regarding spacer: Open frame of 2x6's with fluffy inside, or actual sealed box with fluffy? Other thoughts?

jevchance

· #7 · Oct 1, 2019

No input on the spacers (I'd probably opt for blocks) but wanted to say nice looking build!

Zarkoff500

· #8 · Oct 1, 2019

I am curious on how these sound? I think the PA460 is a fantastic driver, especially for their cost. I am running 4 VBSS's off an inuke3000DSP and am very pleased with their output.

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bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 1, 2019

With only 2 subs in place, the bass is insufficient. I will be adding these two after I figure out the height issue.
Then give me a few weeks to get the last two subs built. Then the REWing begins.

Not sure about blocks, maybe there is some detriment to subs if they are not mounted equally. I have learned that nothing is obvious and everything is debatable.

Zarkoff500

· #10 · Oct 1, 2019 (Edited)

bfb1963 said:
With only 2 subs in place, the bass is insufficient.

I had my first two VBSS's in about 1500 cft and they worked well, after adding the second two, everything is just a little better (output, flatter frequency response, immersion). One set is about 4' off of the ground, the other set at ground level. Individually their output is great but very uneven, together the frequency response is considerably more even.

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #11 · Oct 6, 2019

I'll probably just put some concrete blocks on the bottom to raise it up 4". Hopefully it won't be uneven, because my floor is a little off.

Anyway, here is a picture of my Table Saw sled. It is invaluable. It is great for making any right angle cut under 24". I also used it to trim away to perfection smaller pieces like the port supports or the 2x4 bracing. William Ng is the master, and I used his design.

Also, when I put the back panel on, I found it is hard to get it square without a lot of fiddling while my glue is dripping everywhere. I was using a brad nailer to keep it in place, but then I was getting glue on my fingers while adjusting and then glue on my nailer. So, I found it easier to predrill the corners for screws. Just make sure you use a large enough hole in the MDF, or it will split. Do not use the same diameter for soft wood. In fact, test a piece of mdf first to make sure you have the right width. This step does not need to be a strong grip, just enough to get things set and square before you clamp.

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Craig S King

· #12 · Oct 6, 2019

bfb1963 said:
With only 2 subs in place, the bass is insufficient.

Remember, the PA460s are professional audio WOOFERS, not SUBwoofers. Even though your cabinets are tuned to 18hz, the PA460s aren't going to crank out the ULF like a UM18 or other similar subwoofer. The PA460s really shine in the mid-bass frequency range. 40hz and up is where they really come alive with amazing output for relatively lower power. A lot of people use the PA460s to compliment their UM18s and other subwoofers that cover the 40hz and down frequencies.

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bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 6, 2019

Yes. That is why I need 6 of them. Also, I prewired the rear corners of my risers in case I need more subs, and have prewired behind my main listening position for a nearfield if necessary. Or, just add some buttkickers if I get lazy.

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bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 11, 2019

I need to wire these stacked subs. My wire is 10g and my binding posts only handle 10g, so to wire them in parallel I will need some way of terminating and connecting these large wires. I was considering using a bus bar a.k.a. grounding block. Mounting a pair on one sub of the stack and distributing it that way.

Also, I have 4 of these 10g cables running 35' from my equipment rack. Does it make sense to run a combined pair of these wires to serve each side, or is a single wire run adequate?

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jujuman200

· #15 · Oct 11, 2019

bfb1963 said:
Yes. That is why I need 6 of them. Also, I prewired the rear corners of my risers in case I need more subs, and have prewired behind my main listening position for a nearfield if necessary. Or, just add some buttkickers if I get lazy.

This MAY be of interest to you for additional PA460 subs ....
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3094240-devastator-index.html#post58654500

Juju

jevchance

· #16 · Oct 11, 2019

bfb1963 said:
I need to wire these stacked subs. My wire is 10g and my binding posts only handle 10g, so to wire them in parallel I will need some way of terminating and connecting these large wires. I was considering using a bus bar a.k.a. grounding block. Mounting a pair on one sub of the stack and distributing it that way.

Also, I have 4 of these 10g cables running 35' from my equipment rack. Does it make sense to run a combined pair of these wires to serve each side, or is a single wire run adequate?

Bus bar seems like overkill unless you have a bunch lying around. They also would leave the back of the speaker open to shorts, although not likely.

Personally I used bi-amp binding posts. Wire goes into one speaker, then out from that same speaker's second posts over to the other sub, with the bridging bars in place. Works great, and gives me flexibility if I go to DVCs in the future.

Another option is good old-fashioned solder. You could hide the solder junction inside a set of speaker pants and it'd look really nice.

bfb1963

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 12, 2019

jevchance said:
Bus bar seems like overkill unless you have a bunch lying around. They also would leave the back of the speaker open to shorts, although not likely.

Personally I used bi-amp binding posts. Wire goes into one speaker, then out from that same speaker's second posts over to the other sub, with the bridging bars in place. Works great, and gives me flexibility if I go to DVCs in the future.

Another option is good old-fashioned solder. You could hide the solder junction inside a set of speaker pants and it'd look really nice.

Good points. However, I already own the binding posts and new Bi-Amp ones are $12 x6 = $72, plus they need to be mounted using a holesaw. My binding posts are just a single 1/4" drilled hole.
Regarding shorting, I don't think that is likely either. My binding posts are exposed already.
For me, its going to be tough to solder 4 strands of 10g wire with my gun.
I like the bus bar, it is actually rather efficient.

jevchance

· #18 · Oct 13, 2019

Yeah under the circumstances I’d say go for it.

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