[Cthanatos]


So my wife and I will be building a new house soon, and I've been spending a whole lot more time on these forums over the past weeks than I should have. I should totally be doing homework right now or getting ready for work. Anyway... so we don't have any official plans yet, as we'll be making a ton of changes to a pre-made plan to make it our own once we get the plot. I know, it seems like it's a long ways away, but I've got to be thinking about how high I'll need the ceiling, and the different soundproofing methods and how many rows, risers and seats. I also want to have a bar at the back. Also, within reason, cost isn't an issue.



So my first questions are about soundproofing. I've been all over this forum, as well as Soundproofingcompany.com, and others. I've read all the articles, and spent way too many hours absorbed into forum posts, and I haven't found a definitive answer to what I'm looking for. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I haven't found it yet. 



1. Up to 3 walls will be foundation concrete walls (most likely 3). I've read that because the forms are a little bit away from the concrete, I won't need to worry about decoupling, as it's already basically done. Is that right?




2. With decoupled walls, do I still use hat tracks, or is a hat track just another way to decouple where building a second wall isn't an option? Also, is using a double stud just another replacement for decoupling or hat tracks?




3. If I were to use all of these following methods, would it be too much, create a triple leaf effect, are some of them just different ways to do the other, or would it be just right, especially for foundation walls? Decoupling, double stud, hat tracks, double 5/8" green glued drywall (just regular, from what I've seen and read, the quietrock doesn't do too much).



4. With us being so tall, and with me wanting at least two different risers, main level with first row of seats, first riser with second row of seats, and second riser with bar and minifridge, I'm thinking that the 8' that our building ususally makes the basement ceilings isn't going to be enough. I've looked at the riser height calculator and it seems like I'm going to need like 10' ceilings!

5. I'm thinking I want a soffit, because I'd like to have Jeff at NightSkyMurals do our ceiling eventually. The reason I'd want a soffit is so that I could eventually hide some blacklights that point at the ceiling to illuminate his work. This also complicates #4.


Lots to think about, and I don't think our subcontractor knows very much about what I was asking. My wife thinks he does, and that I was using different words than he's familiar with, because when I said I wanted decoupled walls, he later started tellign me about how you can build a room within a room. I trust him, I just want to know exactly what I want before he starts trying to lead me in any particualr direction.

 

[doublewing11]


You've asked a ton of questions....................am sure many will address the plethora of questions/concerns you have.

 

You really need to start thinking what you would like with room dimensions.  Starting off with 10 ft ceiling or higher in dedicated room is a great starting point.  I have 10 ft ceilings in mine room and riser in rear has no issues with headroom whatsoever.

 

Width is another thought.....................I suggest at a minimum 17 ft wide at studs..........with a bar in back, you might be looking at 28 feet or more.  My room is 25-1/2 feet with approximately 4-5 feet in rear giving lots of room with rear surrounds.  What you are talking about with two rows and a bar,  once again....think 28 ft minimum or more for lenght.

 

When you figure out room dimensions...........then start getting into other aspects such as finding a reputable theater designer who can plan acoustics based on room dimension.

 

Lots of people can get you started on soundproofing...............start researching or contact  Soundproofingcompany.com ......and other vendors.

 

BTW, have relatives in Park City.........love the area! 

 

Good luck...........

 

[Cthanatos]

Good point, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm a little OCD about the details, because I want this room to be perfect. Unlike the rest of the house, building a theater means you can't really change things out without a ton of effort and expense. We don't have a dedicated plan yet, so I'll just put my trust in the subcontractor, and specify requirements as we go along.

 

[BIGmouthinDC]

I can answer just about every question you posed but it is late. One quick thing for you to think about


#4 two risers.........For two rows of seating and then a back bar (is that facing the screen for seating?) you really only need one change of height to elevate the second row over the first, A bar with bar stool seating is high enough to see over the second row assuming it is tucked just behind the second row, if you are thinking about a large lounge area behind the second row, then maybe it needs to be up a bit to see the screen from everywhere in the lounge.


Bar tops (42 inches tall) are about the same height as chair backs so sitting with your head higher then the bar top already has a view. Some designs I've seen (and my house) have the bar on the lowest level and they can still see over two rows, one on a riser.

 

[Cthanatos]

Thanks a lot! I never considered that people sitting at a bar would be able to see over everybody else. So what is a good plan for soundproofing the foundation walls?


Also - BIGmouthinDC, I gotta say, when I see how many people you've helped and questions you've answered, I can't help but think of the quote from the three amigos

Lucky Day: Wherever there is injustice, you will find us.

Ned Nederlander: Wherever there is suffering, we'll be there.

Dusty Bottoms: Wherever liberty is threatened, you will find...

Lucky Day, Ned Nederlander, Dusty Bottoms: The Three Amigos!


But something more appropriate to AVSforums....


Wherever there is an accoustic or structural question.. you will find him.

Wherever a movie buff is about to give up on their HT dream... he'll be there.

Wherever a HT space is threatened to become a storage room, you will find...

BIGmouthinDC!

(cue the music)


I know it's not just you, I know there are hundreds of dedicated forum readers and posters who go out of their way to help out. If you've ever answered a question, or helped solve a problem, you can consider yourself a member of the AVS Amigos! Thanks to everybody!

 

[Crash11]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthanatos  /t/1522407/building-a-new-house-with-dedicated-theater-some-unanswered-questions#post_24483840


Thanks a lot! I never considered that people sitting at a bar would be able to see over everybody else. So what is a good plan for soundproofing the foundation walls?


Also - BIGmouthinDC, I gotta say, when I see how many people you've helped and questions you've answered, I can't help but think of the quote from the three amigos

Lucky Day: Wherever there is injustice, you will find us.

Ned Nederlander: Wherever there is suffering, we'll be there.

Dusty Bottoms: Wherever liberty is threatened, you will find...

Lucky Day, Ned Nederlander, Dusty Bottoms: The Three Amigos!


But something more appropriate to AVSforums....


Wherever there is an accoustic or structural question.. you will find him.

Wherever a movie buff is about to give up on their HT dream... he'll be there.

Wherever a HT space is threatened to become a storage room, you will find...

BIGmouthinDC!

(cue the music)


I know it's not just you, I know there are hundreds of dedicated forum readers and posters who go out of their way to help out. If you've ever answered a question, or helped solve a problem, you can consider yourself a member of the AVS Amigos! Thanks to everybody!

I think you just decided what movie you're going to use to christen your theater when it's finished.


If you want to see a pretty good example of how the heights can work with a bar behind a row of seats on a riser check out my thread. I have bar stools in my kitchen behind the theater. The height in my kitchen is actually lower than my riser, but you can still see over people in the back row of the theater just fine.

 

[Cthanatos]

Nice! that would be a good movie choice, but I asked my wife what she wanted to watch first and she said "Inception" without missing a beat. I guess it would be a good way to take the room through its paces. Especially with that obligatory Fog horn they use to announce tense moments.

 

[granroth]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthanatos  /t/1522407/building-a-new-house-with-dedicated-theater-some-unanswered-questions/0_100#post_24478271


1. Up to 3 walls will be foundation concrete walls (most likely 3). I've read that because the forms are a little bit away from the concrete, I won't need to worry about decoupling, as it's already basically done. Is that right?


2. With decoupled walls, do I still use hat tracks, or is a hat track just another way to decouple where building a second wall isn't an option? Also, is using a double stud just another replacement for decoupling or hat tracks?


3. If I were to use all of these following methods, would it be too much, create a triple leaf effect, are some of them just different ways to do the other, or would it be just right, especially for foundation walls? Decoupling, double stud, hat tracks, double 5/8" green glued drywall (just regular, from what I've seen and read, the quietrock doesn't do too much).

1. IF the forms are away from the concrete by an inch or so, then yes, your decoupling is taken care of. Are they, though? I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "forms". The only concrete forms I'm aware of are temporary structures that hold the concrete in place until it cures and then are removed. If you are referring to studs or strapping on the inside to accept drywall, then I'm not familiar with them being decoupled from the concrete at all. They typically are nailed or screwed right in.


2. If you do have a decoupled wall, then clips+channel is redundant. It'll give a negligible amount of extra soundproofing -- more, but not enough to justify the cost. Also, be careful about saying just "hat channel" since that exists but that's not decoupling. It's clips + hat channel -- the clips are essential.


3. Foundation walls are already a decent base. If you have the room, then an interior decoupled stud wall with R-13 insulation and then two layers of 5/8 Type X drywall with Green Glue in between (remember that Green Glue is not glue) will be well worth the money and do the job nicely. Adding clips + channel in between the interior stud wall and the drywall wouldn't create a trip leaf, but it's not worth the money anymore.

 

[Cthanatos]

Thanks! I really apreciate that granroth! Honestly my knowledge of architecture and house building is slim, to say the least. So when I say forms, I mean the studs. So thinking in my mind about what it would look like, the studs are screwed into the concrete wall, I would decouple and do the RwaR, and the ROI for clips and channel when I'm using RC13, dual drywall and gg doesn't sound like much. Now when you said Type 'X' drywall, I'm assuming you are using that as a 'fill in the blank'. Would regular 5/8" drywall be good enough, or with the money I'm saving not using clips and channels be better spent on quietrock or a similar material? My subcontractor was trying to sell me on MLV. Could I use dd, gg then MLV and decoupling?

 

[BIGmouthinDC]

wall framing spaced an inch in front of the perimeter foundation walls is decoupled only from the foundation walls. It is not decoupled from the ceiling joists and floor structure above. For that you need to build the framing an inch short and secure the top plate of the framing with IB3 clips or equivalent.


The general feeling about MLV is that it is a waste of perfectly good money, you can acheive the same result with another layer of much cheaper DW. Type X is actually a type of drywall and is not a place holder for a fill in the blank name.

 

[jeffm13]

Some advice on the ceiling height. If you can get away with 9-foot walls instead of 10-foot walls, it might be quite a bit cheaper. I had 10-foot walls poured beneath my garage, with 9-foot walls everyplace else. They had to increase the thickness of the walls from 10 inches to 12 inches because of the extra foot in height. Doing 12-inch thick, 10-foot-high walls throughout the basement could add 25% or more to the cost of the foundation. You could ask the contractor if he can arrange for "sinking" the theater area to save money on materials. Also, remember that your slab will be poured above the footings, so you'll need to deduct the thickness of the slab (and any insulation you put under it) from the ceiling height.

 

[granroth]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthanatos  /t/1522407/building-a-new-house-with-dedicated-theater-some-unanswered-questions/0_100#post_24484529


Thanks! I really apreciate that granroth! Honestly my knowledge of architecture and house building is slim, to say the least. So when I say forms, I mean the studs. So thinking in my mind about what it would look like, the studs are screwed into the concrete wall, I would decouple and do the RwaR, and the ROI for clips and channel when I'm using RC13, dual drywall and gg doesn't sound like much. Now when you said Type 'X' drywall, I'm assuming you are using that as a 'fill in the blank'. Would regular 5/8" drywall be good enough, or with the money I'm saving not using clips and channels be better spent on quietrock or a similar material? My subcontractor was trying to sell me on MLV. Could I use dd, gg then MLV and decoupling?

Big already addressed most of this. To fill in a few holes:


Type X is also known as "fire resistant" drywall. If you go to Home Depot or the like, then you'll likely be able to see it listed as either Type X or with some code like "Fire Shield" or "Firecode" or similar. The reason that Type X is specified over "normal" drywall is simply because it has more mass for the same size sheet while not costing notably more. In fact, you might not be able to find 5/8" drywall in a big box store that's not Type X since... well, I can't think of why anybody would not want Type X if they were using 5/8". Be careful about one thing, though -- I'm now starting to see Type X drywall that is "lightweight" (SHEETROCK brand). Avoid that like the plague. Weight is your friend when it comes to soundproofing; the more, the better.


If you do go with a R-in-R method, then make sure that either your existing studwall on the concrete is either insulated with foam OR that you consider remove that wall. If it is insulated with fiberglass, then you'll have a wall subsection that looks like Mass (Concrete) + Air (Studs+Fiberglass) + Mass (Drywall) + Air (Space + Studs + Fiberglass) + Mass (2xDW+GG). MAMAM is a definite triple leaf scenario. It's okay if it's stuffed full of foam, though, since foam acts like a leaf if it's solid.


Can I be honest about your subcontractor? Don't listen to anything he has to say about soundproofing. Knowing what works and what doesn't is not intuitive and it's not sounding like he has a solid basis in the core concepts. It's unlikely that he'll steer you in the right direction.


I suggest reading the links from the first post in the Soundproofing master thread . The articles by Anthony and Ted are worth every second it takes to read them and you will not regret following that up by reading every article on the soundproofingcompany.com website. It's excellent and highly readable material.

 

[Cthanatos]

Wow! Boy do I feel sheepish! It's certainly humbling in a good way that I'm constantly reminded on just how much I don't know. I've read all the articles on the soundproofing company's website, and much of the posts here. I'll check and see if I've missed anything.