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This is going to be so awesome.

can I get a "AMEN"!
 
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Discussion Starter #122
Finally I found some good, free modeling software. Here is another idea I have for this, but I'm not sure if it will work. If I could keep it in the basement, rather than in that sub area, I'd have to move the manifold to the right of the doorway. Here is my idea so that the manifold would be out of the way (at least the part where the subwoofers are installed, which is the bulk of it):
3047750

The brown pieces are the wooden basement ceiling joists. The grey striped opening would be the vent to the living room. Hopefully it's obvious the red is the mdf/ply box I'd make, and black are the two subs.
3047751

3047752


My only concern with this is obviously will the sound be severely negatively affected by having to travel down that "port" and then up through the vent (vent being the grey striped thing)?

Ah, also the nice old lady selling the Crown MacroTech 5000vz from church got back to me. It's mine now :)
 

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Discussion Starter #124
From the orientation of the image, the port will be firing up into the room?
Yessir, from this idea it would be. This would all be under the floor in the living room, aka the ceiling of the basement.

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Ok. Just a couple of thoughts.
1.) I'm not a bass expert, I don't think the travel distance will matter but I could be wrong.
2.) The red being the mdf/ply box, you are going to seal the insides of the seams of the box, right? Did I read earlier that you're going to use some sort of vibration dampening between the surfaces of the box and everything else?
 

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Discussion Starter #126
Ok. Just a couple of thoughts.
1.) I'm not a bass expert, I don't think the travel distance will matter but I could be wrong.
2.) The red being the mdf/ply box, you are going to seal the insides of the seams of the box, right? Did I read earlier that you're going to use some sort of vibration dampening between the surfaces of the box and everything else?
Number one is what I'm most worried about though. Bass travels a long way because of long waves, but I don't want there to be any resonance problems from the waves bouncing around on the way out of the tunnel/vent. I don't want the 'tube' (read wood tunnel) to act as a bandpass box.
Regarding 2):
Oh absolutely, everything will be sealed up very well. I'm sure I'll add 1" strips of MDF to all inside corners of the box, heavily glued in place. I do that with all speakers I build now anyway. I will use vibration dampening, but I'm not sure where yet. The thing is, a lot of the physical vibrations due to the mechanical force will be canceled out (opposed design). I am fairly positive I'm going to use heavy duty (everything has to be with this project) vibration pads where the beams holding up the box meet the box itself. Decoupling is such a neat neat thing, and is something I need to read up on more so that I get it right.
 

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You will have resonance issues like that. You want the manifold as shallow as possible ie big enough to support the drivers rigidly and that's it. Let the IB work like it's supposed to work. If you want a horn than build that and stick it in the floor or ceiling.
 

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Discussion Starter #128
You will have resonance issues like that. You want the manifold as shallow as possible ie big enough to support the drivers rigidly and that's it. Let the IB work like it's supposed to work. If you want a horn than build that and stick it in the floor or ceiling.
Thank you GK. You're one I'd call credible so I'll take your word for it.

Dang... I know I flip flop between the two areas but if I don't have to use a pulley system to get a 300lb structure 12 feet up into a cavity and hope a lot of maintenance isn't required, I don't want to.

I'm going to go downstairs again and look at possibly putting the subs to the left of the doorway. There must be something I can do. The back wall of the tv room is a no go from the basement. Subwoofer does not sound good against the back wall. I haven't tried putting it in the other corner of the room or next to the window. This probably sounds stupid... I hope it is stupid, so hear me out. My trepidation about placing the opening of this manifold under an area of windows is I feel like the window could more easily shatter. Stupid?
 
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neat graphics . .
how does the sub entry into the room look from the MLP
does it fire straight up/ into what kind of space / shape / volume/
some 2 x10's on top of the manifold and its extension to span across the 2 long horizontal beams could hold it up and utilize the decoupling pads
what program was that?
 
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Discussion Starter #130
That was TinkerCAD online. It's free for educational/personal use.
Okay, this will help to show the sub entry in from the room.... The four spots I have to choose from really:
BetweenJoistsOptionsTVRoom.jpg = SpeakersSTuff_006.jpg = SpeakersSTuff_005.jpg


Finally, there is the original spot, which is that spot in the ceiling at the bottom of the stairs where the recessed light is... While the least desirable effort-wise, would be the best sound-wise, as the opening would be ear height at the MLP, and 3/4 the way into the corner where the bass sounds best.
 

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Discussion Starter #132
So there is something I completely forgot the option of. I can have the manifold inside the living room, with the drivers inverted...

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Discussion Starter #133
Having the manifold in the living room isn't going to happen. Having those two speakers back to back would make the box at least 40" wide by 30" tall. I'll stick with trying to hide it for now.
The new amp came in today. I removed the volume knobs to take a look at why the left channel's pot seems to get really difficult to turn after 90 degrees. I would guess it needs a new pot, which I have a bunch of. I'm not sure of the length to match, but I know I've got a few 5k in the garage.
3048797


Looks like this can be easily wired up for either 110 or 220. 220 would be less amps and more efficiency, especially at low frequencies, so I think I'm going to make that change. I'm well aware of the dangers with this thing- I'll have to make sure the power is completely drained before servicing. I found a service guide so I'll just have to follow the directions. One of the basics is using a resistor to drain the power reserves.

Not too much else to report. Wife is on board with having a big ol box either in the basement or in the wall, but not in the living room. Whoops, I mean I decided it shouldn't go in the room... lmao WAF jokes never get old.

Either way, there's no reason not to order the box building materials. The manifold is going to be the same size no matter where I decide to put it!
 

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Discussion Starter #135
The manifold should just be the opening from the box into the room so I could be concealed with an attractive piece of fabric.
Yep, that's the idea! In my previous post I mentioned having it in the living room- that is what is referred to as an 'outie' (versus the standard 'innie'). It's when you switch the side of the wall the manifold is on. In this case, I would have put the manifold and drivers in the living room, with the bottom being open to the basement. There are sound quality advantages to this as well (on paper) as the sound waves don't have to travel through an opening. Line arrays have this benefit as well. In any case, I'm not doing that.

I also drilled a hole through my living room floor. :eek:
What if I ended the post there? lmao.
No, so I did that as I decided it was the only way I'd truly be able to tell where the living room floor is in relation to the basement ceiling. The drill bit is only 1/16" anyway. Well, I'm glad I did this, and I wish I would have done it a long time ago. Reason being, having the subs and manifold isn't an option with these bad boys. They need 16" or so of clearance in the back due to the size of the basket/spacer/magnet. That means I could not begin to place the manifold until I was 16" out from the basement wall. Well, 16" out from the basement wall is about 12" out from the front wall of the living room. So the manifold opening would not start until 12" out, where it is going to be 12" wide by 24" long. A 16"x24" opening a foot out into the living room... listen, I could make it work if I was single. That being said, it would look stupid. It would also cause us to have to move the workout area as that's right below. It is what it is.

I'm not upset by it because I feel like I can really quiet the whole structure better with it inside the wall. Having it in the wall is also ideal for sound quality reasons versus having it coming up through the floor. Again, ear level (I know bass doesn't care, but whatever, give me this). So the manifold is going in the wall, and the opening itself is going to be the width between studs (about 16" outside to outside), by about 26". Now I've got to decide how much I want to beef up this area. I certainly want to do it prior to installing the massive manifold/speaker contraption. Not because I'm worried about the weight by any means- I'll brace it all to hell and back because I know how to do that. As I said earlier in the thread, I just don't want the drywall to crack.

I'll probably throw some sort of fiberglass insulation in there just because it seems like the right thing to do. The thing is, at frequencies like this, what is insulation even going to do? Mass loaded vinyl seems reasonable, but it's both heavy and expensive. Another thought is, I don't want to take up any more volume than I have to in this space. For instance, if I were to add a layer of OSB on top of the area shown in red, that would eat up a lot of the space's volume just because of all those pockets now between the OSB and the drywall:
3049510
 

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Discussion Starter #136 (Edited)
I think I'm going to add an access door... possibly a full sized door. I want to be able to walk in to the area. I'm not sure right now how to figure out the load-bearing capabilities of the 2x6"s currently there. Add weight until they fall? lmao.

I guess the only thing I can do is beef the floor area up as it is. No matter what, I've got to be able to get into this area. Reminds me of that story someone shared earlier... about the doctor who disassembled and reassembled an entire engine, working through a tailpipe. Wow, what an accomplishment! Also, wow, what a pain in the ass! I've gotta be able to get into this area without the thought of falling through. I was thinking a full sized door as... well, everything about this project is huge. I don't want to have to assemble the cabinet inside the area if I don't have to. Although if I do have to, again, I need the floor solid.

Alright, good news is the wall is not load bearing. So installing an access panel/door should be no problem whatsoever. I kind of don't want a full size door. I'm going to see what's out there. It will have to be soundproofed of course.
 

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you can cut a solid core door down from 6'8" to ?.
depends on how it gets framed out wrt to being supportive of surrounding structures.
AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY "NEEDED"
if there is need of aesthetics, maybe make it a "hidden ' door that opens with a touch latch .
using hidden Soss hinges seems a BIT overkill but then again . . .
blends right into the wall . .
 
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Discussion Starter #138
you can cut a solid core door down from 6'8" to ?.
depends on how it gets framed out wrt to being supportive of surrounding structures.
AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY "NEEDED"
if there is need of aesthetics, maybe make it a "hidden ' door that opens with a touch latch .
using hidden Soss hinges seems a BIT overkill but then again . . .
blends right into the wall . .
Doesn't have to be anything fancy. I'm just going to make it myself with hinges. A couple layers of ply sandwiched together with sealant between them, followed by the original piece of drywall I cut away, a few hinges, some rubber gasket for around the edge, a lock, call it a day.
3049648

It'll look like that^
 
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Discussion Starter #139
Well I got quite a bit done today.
I got all the material for the manifold, so I'll begin assembling that tomorrow I'd imagine. I've got such a cool idea for it.
SpeakersShtuff_01 - Copy.jpg
Today I made the access hole. I've got it covered up with a blanket for tonight. I'll get the door done tomorrow. Luckily my garage is pretty well sealed and stays warm with the rest of the house despite not being hooked up to the ventilation system.
SpeakersShtuff_03 - Copy.jpg
Gotta remove this shelf...
SpeakersShtuff_04 - Copy.jpg
Found out this is NOT a load bearing wall. That was cool, although I treated it like one anyway.
SpeakersShtuff_05 - Copy.jpg SpeakersShtuff_06 - Copy.jpg
Aaaand bada boom, bada bing. As I said, tomorrow I'll make the door. I haven't decided really how I'm going to clean it up, but it'll be simple enough. Probably some simple around the opening like a picture frame. I also filled in the area where I originally cut the hole to get the very first pictures of the tomb. It's really simple working with drywall when you're not worried about looks. Just make everything a sandwich. Sandwiches consisting of wood, drywall, screws, and adhesive sealant.
SpeakersShtuff_07 - Copy.jpg
I'll also reinforce the ground in there so I can walk on it.

Today was one of those reinvigorating days. I got excited about the project again when I blasted that hole through the wall. I can see it, and I'm getting there. No need to rush, but man it's like perpetually Christmas eve :D
 
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Ho-Ho-Ho
 
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