[TNToyota]

Hi everyone,

This is my first real thread and I'm by no means an expert or a moderate -- I'm a total novice. I appreciate any and all advice that people can provide as I'm at a loss as to how to proceed. Please feel free to correct my gear choices where necessary or dissuade anything that seems wrong or a bad idea.

I work in a painting studio and we're trying to build a hifi system for the main space, a very large concrete room measuring:

44' long x 35' wide x 14' ceilings.

There's two columns located centrally down the middle of the space and paintings are hung mostly on one of the long walls and the two shorter wall on either end. The room is basically a rectangle for our purposes.

My boss mostly listens to electronic music, base heavy rave, club, etc. either streaming or from her computer.
She is not tech savy nor does she want to be so the goal is to keep the system as simple as possible with maximum quality output. The plan is to choose one amp one set of speakers and a HQ bluetooth transmitter / receiver so she can control things via mobile.

Placement:
Based on the speakers (large or small) where should these go if my boss spend most of her time working along the long wall? It's very easy to hang things from the walls or suspend them in the middle of the space, etc.

With that here are my gear choices - feel free to comment or steer me in any direction on these.

Located in Brooklyn, NY

Budget
$1000 - $1700 for integrated amp
$1000 - 1500 for speakers

Integrated Amps:
Peachtree Nova 300
Peachtree Nova 150
Yamaha A-S801

Bluetooth Transmitter:
Auris Bluetooth receiver

Speakers:
ADS 1530
JBL Studio 590
JBL 4313B
JBL 4312a
JBL L166
JBL
L36
KLIPSCH CORNWALL III
KLIPSCH LA SCALA
Klipsch Heresy II
Polk SDA SRS 2.3 TL
Maggie 1.7i
AR9LS
Anything else that would be good?

I apologize if this is in the wrong thread, I'm happy to repost if necessary.
Thank you for any advice or direction that you guys can provide.

 

[Zorba922]

44' long x 35' wide x 14' ceilings.

There's two columns located centrally down the middle of the space and paintings are hung mostly on one of the long walls and the two shorter wall on either end. The room is basically a rectangle for our purposes.

My boss mostly listens to electronic music, base heavy rave, club, etc. either streaming or from her computer.
She is not tech savy nor does she want to be so the goal is to keep the system as simple as possible with maximum quality output. The plan is to choose one amp one set of speakers and a HQ bluetooth transmitter / receiver so she can control things via mobile.

Placement:
Based on the speakers (large or small) where should these go if my boss spend most of her time working along the long wall? It's very easy to hang things from the walls or suspend them in the middle of the space, etc.

Located in Brooklyn, NY

Budget
$1000 - $1700 for integrated amp
$1000 - 1500 for speakers

You're looking at way over-priced boutique options IMO, and over-complicated too.

From what you've described, all your boss really needs is maybe 4 robust powered monitors spread out along that long wall (they can be hung high on the walls but tilted downwards), connected to a simple $500 receiver that has Bluetooth (almost all of them do nowadays), and possibly 1-2 powered subwoofers tucked away in 1-2 corners (corners = maximum room reinforcement) if she feels the need for more bass output.

JBL 308P, just $200 apiece
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_855308MKII/JBL-308P-MkII.html?skipvs=T

Marantz receiver with bluetooth, pre-outs (you just get an RCA to XLR conversion cable to hook up to the JBLs) and dual subwoofer outputs, $500 shipped
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642NR1609/Marantz-NR1609.html

4 of the JBLs + Marantz AVR = $1300 all in

You can call up Crutchfield, they have great phone assistance if you need help setting everything up, and being in NY you probably will not be charged sales tax from them.

If she desires more bass than that (few will, but just in case), a pair of robust subs (Monolith 10 or 12", Hsu VTF-2, Rythmik, etc.) will run around $1K extra...set them in corners, and you'll be all set.

 

[Soulburner]

Have to agree with Zorba...spot on.

You are budgeting up to $3200. I think we can get a great system with that.

The 308p's are absolutely killer at that price. Those are little sticks of dynamite.

But, let's look at their output to be sure. Sensitivity is 92 dB (by the way, this is the same as the actual sensitivity of the Klipsch RP-8000F tower). Max continuous SPL is 102 dB. Sound pressure reduces by 6 dB with each doubling of distance. That means if you're working 20 feet away from them, the most you can expect is around 85 decibels. That is still pretty loud - louder than most would listen to music continuously. Many of us watch movies in the 70-85 dB range, with 85 being THX "Reference" level. I assume it won't be turned up to 11 most of the time, anyway. So, I would say they should get loud enough.

However, spend less on the amp and get more relevant features. The above recommendation is solid, but the 2 sub outputs are probably just an internal Y-splitter. I would look for Audyssey XT32 w/Sub EQ. This uses 2 discrete subwoofer outputs to time-align and equalize multiple subwoofers. It makes the job of setting them up easy. Look at this: DENON AVR-X3400H https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx3400h/denon-avr-x3400h-7.2-ch-x-105-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

Which brings us to the largest single purchase you should be making: a good subwoofer pair. Your space is huge and needs two, a good 10 feet apart if possible, especially if you move around the area while working - you don't want bass to be good in only one spot. This is where proper use of 2 subs and Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ will really help.

I recommend: 2x HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2.html

I'm not aware of a better bang for the buck in terms of quality and output at that price.

Remember, your subs are going to feel the entire 20,000+^3 of space. Don't skimp out here!

$2600 with cables

 

[smithsabom]

I have to disagree with both recommendations...

What has been described in the requirements is for basically a PA system... and set into a highly reflective space" basically a large concrete room"

the one critical point, totally missed here is using bluetooth. Don't do it. instead get a music-over-wifi system. she will still be able to control it over her phone/tablet, but won't get all the annoying drops and hits when notifications come through.

one possibility, rent a PA system for a few days to get an idea of sound profile, as well as how much sound you want in the space.

but being a working space, I would think some thing unobtrusive would be optimal, so wall mounting the speakers to keep the work space clear would be a good thing.

a couple of Sonos / HEOS play 5's could work. or a Sonos / HEOS amp + decent indoor/outdoor speakers ( easy to hand on the wall with the built in brackets for example: https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...utdoor-2-way-speaker-pair-with-passi--310-023) / or even the monoprice 15" passive PA speaker.

and /or pre-amp module(s) on top of a generic amp. evena multi-channel zone amp might be a good play here to drive more small speakers than just a stereo pair.

Sonos / HEOS : top contenders... and sonos has a desk top app to control things...

and if she is considering spending that amount of money on gear, looking into some room treatments to reduce unwanted audio reflections might be in order as well. and look at the creative opportunities room treatments create!

so make sure there is good wifi coverage in the space.

lastly, for room filling sound, consider a bi pole like the defintive technology BP 10. just picked up a used set for a song and the output is overall impressive, with plenty of low end.

good luck

 

[Soulburner]

What has been described in the requirements is for basically a PA system... and set into a highly reflective space", basically a large concrete room".

Disagree. What has been suggested is a system with high fidelity.

Or even the monoprice 15" passive PA speaker.

Are you serious? You just called JBL monitors "PA" speakers, then suggested an actual PA speaker that won't have anywhere near the flat response of the JBL.

and if she is considering spending that amount of money on gear, looking into some room treatments to reduce unwanted audio reflections might be in order as well. and look at the creative opportunities room treatments create!

Absorption would help a lot in this space.

lastly, for room filling sound, consider a bi pole like the defintive technology BP 10. just picked up a used set for a song and the output is overall impressive, with plenty of low end.

Your recommendations are all over the place. They need direct sound, not bipolar sound, which scatters music all around a reflective room. It will fill the room, but it won't have clarity.

 

[echopraxia]

You are not going to get a good / pleasing high fidelity sound in a room with so much sound reflection (concrete, wood, glass are all terrible) of that large size, no matter how good your speakers and amps are. You could buy a million dollar speakers and I bet it’ll still sound mediocre to awful.

I have a room with wood floors (not even any concrete) and one with carpet floors and wallpaper. I’ve played the same exact speakers in both rooms: The acoustics of the latter are amazing in contrast to the other, which will always sound harsh, echo-ey, and generally not very pleasant.

If you really want high fidelity sound you’re definitely going to have to find a way to sound-dampen the room.

 

[Zorba922]

Sonos is actually not a bad option in terms of maximizing simplicity and ease of operation. My local Y has Sonos speakers and they manage to fill up enormous spaces for casual background listening...but everybody just uses wireless earbuds anyhow, lol.

However, it all depends on just how low her standards are---Sonos speakers basically have tipped up mid-bass and treble, resulting in the classic midrange hole.

The room being reflective is a given, doesn't sound like that's something that can really be changed given that it's a workspace not a dedicated home listening room.

 

[Soulburner]

If absorption panels can be hung from the ceiling around the work space, you won't need to treat the entire room.

Or just get a good pair of in-ear monitors.

 

[smithsabom]

Disagree. What has been suggested is a system with high fidelity.

Are you serious? You just called JBL monitors "PA" speakers, then suggested an actual PA speaker that won't have anywhere near the flat response of the JBL.

Absorption would help a lot in this space.

Your recommendations are all over the place. They need direct sound, not bipolar sound, which scatters music all around a reflective room. It will fill the room, but it won't have clarity.

agreed. I haven't had my coffee yet... wasn't trying to dis the other recs. the rational behind the previous recs are well based and spec out good equipment.

the JBL monitors are very good, no doubt about that, but they are near field, I don't think this is a near-field application.

There are many ways to skin this cat... from what I was reading in the OP, the issues to address before applying speakers are:

control. they need to stay away from BT, even a google chromecast audio can be very functional, as well as cost effective, and she can cast to it from the chrome browser.

room treatments - we both agree on the highly reflective space is something to be considered, especially if considering a point source speaker solution.

room functionality - does she need space to work, what type of painting, is it messy? do you want to be slinging paint around expensive speakers?

also consider the type of musical genre she prefers. electronic music is ambient by nature(?) do you need to (can you) pinpoint where the computer is in the recording?

as for the bi polar speaker rec... I acknowledge your comment. The reason I mentioned it was based upon my direct experience with them in my living room. The room is about 1/2 the space as described in the OP, with a vaulted ceiling. I had the BP 10s in there, w/o a sub. I couldn't tell which side of the speaker the sound was coming from. it was rather amazing. there were these two towers in the room and the sound was just radiating out of them in all directions. and considering the preferred genre, room filling sound, with plenty of bass, could be achieved with the bi-poles.

great comments.

 

[gajCA]

Located in Brooklyn, NY

Budget
$1000 - $1700 for integrated amp
$1000 - 1500 for speakers

Integrated Amps:
Peachtree Nova 300
Peachtree Nova 150
Yamaha A-S801

Bluetooth Transmitter:
Auris Bluetooth receiver


I apologize if this is in the wrong thread, I'm happy to repost if necessary.
Thank you for any advice or direction that you guys can provide.

I would go to a very well known Brooklyn based company not far from you and talk to them about your needs and how they can help you out as a local.

They've been building these unique speakers since the 70s and would definitely lend you a pair to try in your actual space and likely help you with amplifier selection as well.

Ohm Acoustics Corp.
76 Degraw Street
Brooklyn NY 11231 USA
Toll free: 800-783-1553
Phone: 718-422-1111
Service: 718-422-1111

https://ohmspeaker.com/speakers/

 

[Soulburner]

agreed. I haven't had my coffee yet... wasn't trying to dis the other recs. the rational behind the previous recs are well based and spec out good equipment.

the JBL monitors are very good, no doubt about that, but they are near field, I don't think this is a near-field application.

There are many ways to skin this cat... from what I was reading in the OP, the issues to address before applying speakers are:

control. they need to stay away from BT, even a google chromecast audio can be very functional, as well as cost effective, and she can cast to it from the chrome browser.

room treatments - we both agree on the highly reflective space is something to be considered, especially if considering a point source speaker solution.

room functionality - does she need space to work, what type of painting, is it messy? do you want to be slinging paint around expensive speakers?

also consider the type of musical genre she prefers. electronic music is ambient by nature(?) do you need to (can you) pinpoint where the computer is in the recording?

as for the bi polar speaker rec... I acknowledge your comment. The reason I mentioned it was based upon my direct experience with them in my living room. The room is about 1/2 the space as described in the OP, with a vaulted ceiling. I had the BP 10s in there, w/o a sub. I couldn't tell which side of the speaker the sound was coming from. it was rather amazing. there were these two towers in the room and the sound was just radiating out of them in all directions. and considering the preferred genre, room filling sound, with plenty of bass, could be achieved with the bi-poles.

great comments.

A near field speaker is one that achieves coherence at a short distance, but can still be used at great distances, no problem.

Fair enough on the bipolar idea. Maybe the Ohms would be worth trying, though they are clearly more expensive.

I agree on the Wi-Fi - a Chromecast plugged into the receiver would be a good option.

 

[gajCA]

Maybe the Ohms would be worth trying, though they are clearly more expensive.

Ohm's owner is well known to take a special interest in helping locals.

Lending them speakers etc.

The assumption is that even if he doesn't have a solution within budget, (though I suspect he will for a fellow local business), that he will point them in the right direction of what to consider at nearby Adorama or B&H.

 

[emcdade]

Those big vintage Klipsch speakers would be awesome in there. You were on the right track to start. Don’t listen to the guys exporting their basement home theater setup to that space. Boooooring.

 

[shivaji]

Lets not forget, this for a chick, " The Boss" who has no interest in audio other than it play and that it play loud. As stated, Bass heavy rave, club and electronica at what the poster stated "maximum quality output, in a place the size of a medium sized gym. While she and others I assume, paint pretty pictures. For me, this would be a fun project and I would start the fun, with pro gear. Perhaps, 4 18" subs for slam and the QSC K12's or maybe pair of QSC KW 153's, found somewhere on the used market to keep costs near the budget. Maybe rent first as mentioned, bring it in, set it up and see how crappy it sounds in that concrete reflective space. Which it might, but on the other hand, the boss may hear that reverberant mess and say, "I love it." Lol. Wont know till you try.

 

[TNToyota]

Hey Everyone, checking back in! These are all excellent suggestions and exactly the type of direction I was looking for.

A couple more details about the space:

The ceilings and the floor are solid concrete, the walls are insulated drywall and the long painting wall is drywall backed with plywood and insulated(im not sure if this makes them more resonate or not.) I understand that the materials are practically eliminating any sort of audiophile level sound, so I'll try to achieve the best possible results considering the situation.

From what I'm understanding, there's two schools of thought here.

The first says mount 4 of the JBL 308ps tilted downwards on the long wall supplemented by subs in the far corners and run to an amp either the Devon or Marantz (yamaha is less favorable? ). Add Chromecast or something besides Bluetooth, presumably as its annoying or lower fidelity.

The second says, stick to the amp x Klipsch or Ohm speaker combo and get some wall treatment anywhere paintings aren't hung. Contact Ohm and see what they think and ask if they'll let us try out a couple sets of gear.

Both of these seem great, please let me know if I'm understanding something incorrectly otherwise I'll crunch some numbers and see how the two measure up $$.

Please feel free to continue suggesting things if any other ideas strike you and thank you, everyone again!

D

 

[lemonslush]

How about 4 bose s1 although I think two would be plenty to cover the size of your room. Grab two powered subs to go along with them and call it a day. You can control everything from the app on you phone. Both speakers have built in blue tooth and as an added bonus you could use them for meetings and hook up a mic to them.

People poo poo bose products but their pro audio stuff is excellent and sounds great with nice dispersion. We have a single s1 pro and we decided to keep it in our living room and took down our kef /yamaha /svs 5.2 surround system. It gets plenty loud as well.
They also have a battery so you can take them outside if you like for a movie night or just to have tunes.

It also has a many DSP features built in to compensate for the relational position of the speaker to its environment. Basically a 8" mid woofer with a small line array in front of it. Its substantially louder than the jbl 308's. Which I own along with 5 305s setup for our bedroom speaker system. The bose sounds excellent for music and movies. As for a sub you could get anything thats gonna be to your liking but I would go with more of a HT sub to get some low end. Maybe a PSA or svs sub.

 

[Soulburner]

I would hardly call JBL 308s and dual 15" subs "boring". I think we can agree that the Klipschs are good, too, but not necessarily better, depending on the space.

I personally wouldn't put bright Klipsch horns into a reflective concrete room. They would be a mess without absorption in that room. Something like a neutral JBL 308 leaves some budget for treatments so overall would sound much better. In either case, amplification wouldn't be a factor, reinforcing the idea to spend less on the amp.

A few ideas:

https://vicoustic.com/product/vicloud-vmt?collection=Concrete&pattern-vmt=Pattern%201&shape=Hexagon

https://www.gikacoustics.com/

Many options from decorative shapes to art prints.

Being an art studio, she may be on board with this!

 

[gajCA]

Please feel free to continue suggesting things if any other ideas strike you and thank you, everyone again!

D

You would probably enjoy the knowledge a local Brooklyn company would provide.

My guess is they would bend over backwards to help you even if in the end you go in a different direction.

Ohm speakers have a warm enveloping sound which may be a good match for your space assuming you can stay within budget of course.

Here's a bit more about them:

https://ohmspeaker.com/about/

They also have a pair of upgraded Cam 42 speakers that are a legacy product on hand for $795/pair that might be just the ticket though they are a different design from their other speakers.

120 day free in home trial.

https://ohmspeaker.com/outlet-store/

 

[smithsabom]

How about 4 bose s1 although I think two would be plenty to cover the size of your room. Grab two powered subs to go along with them and call it a day. You can control everything from the app on you phone. Both speakers have built in blue tooth and as an added bonus you could use them for meetings and hook up a mic to them.

People poo poo bose products but their pro audio stuff is excellent and sounds great with nice dispersion. We have a single s1 pro and we decided to keep it in our living room and took down our kef /yamaha /svs 5.2 surround system. It gets plenty loud as well.
They also have a battery so you can take them outside if you like for a movie night or just to have tunes.

It also has a many DSP features built in to compensate for the relational position of the speaker to its environment. Basically a 8" mid woofer with a small line array in front of it. Its substantially louder than the jbl 308's. Which I own along with 5 305s setup for our bedroom speaker system. The bose sounds excellent for music and movies. As for a sub you could get anything thats gonna be to your liking but I would go with more of a HT sub to get some low end. Maybe a PSA or svs sub.

agreed that their pro gear is good. it is amazing how a single line array (either the large or small) have such great output.

 

[TNToyota]

I like all of these suggestions. I'm going to call Ohm first thing on Monday.

As for the 308s, this also sounds like a great setup. Are the 308s powered via AC or through the amp?? Sorry I'm a total novice. Soulburner, do you have an amp you would suggest or would these work fine with the Yamaha As801 ? Do we know if the Yamaha can also power two subs in addition to the 4 308s?

I'm also intrigued by the Bose S1 - how straight forward / fussy is the interface via bluetooth? My boss switches between spotify, streaming independent radio, mixcloud -- all digital input sort of stuff. Does the Bose app facilitate communication between these types of systems ? Also, same question as above, do these need active power via AC or can they receive power via the amp? I'm only asking as I see plugs on the back of these speakers that I don't have on the back of my JBL L19's at my apartment

I'm really enjoying this, thank you all again!