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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,


I live in Switzerland and the 3802 is not quite in stores yet. I can get a 3801 on closeout for $719 or wait a little while for a 3802 at $1200.


Since the ONLY difference as far as I know is Pro-Logic II I'd like opinions on how valuable people think this really is. I'd be listening maybe 20-30% to music and the rest HT. I'd also plan on going SACD eventually, and to be honest I am a little skeptical about the whole idea of converting 2 channel material to multichannel. I know the 3801 also has a multichannel conversion mode (forget the name) - how does it compare with Pro-Logic implementation for converting 2 channel to 6?


Other question is whether anyone has matched the 3801 (or 3802) with the Paradigm Atom/ADP/CC170 combination (with the PDR-12 sub)? From what I've read these are great speakers, but wondering on the match with Denon's warm sound.


Thanks for any and all opinions and please pitch in if you can. There's not many 3801's available (two, in fact).


Thanks all,


Dave
 

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Dave: I ran a Denon AVR-3300 until August when I bought a 3802. The specific reason I upgraded was Pro Logic II. I do listen to a fair amount of music on my system (probably 30 to 40 % of the time.) Most of this music listening is not using Pro Logic II. I just like the sound of good old 2 channel for most mixes (I have found that naturally acoustic type music, like classical, does sound very good in DPL II though.)


So, you may wonder, if I upgraded to DPL II, but don't really use it much for music, why did I do it? I had a great deal of confidence that Jim Fosgate had made a major improvement in 2 channel based matrix surround sound. Several listeners had posted their experiences and they were all very positive. And I knew that I listened to a ton of 2 channel based video (TV, older VHS tapes and the occasional 2 channel DVD.) After buying my 3802, I have found it to be the same for me. DPL II brings older 2 channel video related sound to life. Just awesome!!! Old (original) Pro Logic was often very center channel oriented. Quite often, old Pro Logic just sounded "flat" to me. DPL II can often sound almost 5.1...


IMO, if you want the 6.1 capabilities of the 3801 and don't listen to much 2 channel, then the savings you realize by buying one on close-out can be put toward more DVDs. But if you watch a lot of TV (or any other 2 channel video), the difference WILL be worthwhile.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Han,


Thanks for this. Actually listening to 2 channel video sources in a surround mode was something I hadn't thought about. However, I believe the 3801 can also play back 2 channel sources (video or music) across a 5.1 setup.....are you saying that the Pro-Logic II implementation just does this a whole lot better?


Also looking for other opinions here.....come on guys. Also very curious to have some Paradigm speaker/3801 or 3802 owners comment on how musical their systems sound.


Dave
 

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I have the 3801 paired with Paradigm Reference Studio 60s, CC, ADPs, and Servo 15 sub. I originally planned to use this mostly for HT, but find myself listening to music very often. This setup rocks!


I've heard from others that the 3801 doesn't really have that warm Denon sound, but the 3802 supposedly does. I guess I don't know what that Denon "warm" sound is since this is my first Denon receiver, but I find my system to sound very precise.


Bruno
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, the news on the matching with Paradigms is a welcome reassurance.


Still mulling over the REAL value of Pro-Logic II though.......it's been a big enough deal that lot's of people must have strong opinions about it. Are they universally good opinions and everyone thinks of this as a 'must have' now or what?


Dave
 

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Dave: Yes, my take on DPL II is that it is a must have. At least for me! (In fact, I upgraded my small bedroom system to include DPL II too.)


The 3801 can indeed decode 2 channel material into matrixed surround via regular Pro Logic, DTS NEO and the other on board DSP programs. But for me, DPL II just does a better job. It sounds more natural and spacious (without any of the often nasty echoes that DSPs have.)


I have found the majority of opinions about DPL II to be very positive. Especially in relation to the original Pro Logic. Do a search here on this forum for DPL II and Jim Fosgate. Mr. Fosgate himself has posted a great deal on DPL II and how it evolved (and works.)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks again Han. This, and your other posts on the 3802 are part of the reason I have found myslf seeing the 3801/3802 unit as a 'best buy' receiver.


I have already done a search on DPL II, and as you say, the reports tend to be uniformly positive. I'm also hopeful that I can eventually find a 220 volt 3802 for less than the $1200 they say it's going to list for. Still, the $500 difference is a long way to come down between the two.


All the best,
 

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Hi Dave,


Mediacheckpoint ( www.mediacheckpoint.de ) ships to all of Europe. For Switzerland you can get a 3802 for 1050 euro ($960) including taxes and shipping (unit is 970 euro and shipping about 84 euro)


I thought about using them for getting a 3802 myself but decided on buying in a local store here in Sweden. It is a bit more expensive but I don't have to worry about any possible warranty issues.


/H-B
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Redeby,


Thanks for the link. Nice to get some info on net prices with 220 volt gear. Thanks again.


Hej do (lousy Swedish, I know but better than nothing),
 

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running 2 channel music in any kind of 5 channel mode sounds fake to me. if you still have tons of old video tapes you watch the pro logic2 mode might be valuable to you, but i certainly would not pay extra to listen to music in some kind of quasi-surround mode. im sure that you have heard about the added noise that the "rock arena" and club modes create. i read in a review that when all the channels were driven that the THD was something like 2%.(ill try to find the link and add it to this post). i know the manual states that if you use 6ohm speakers that the THD is .7% and they only give that spec at 1khz with 2 channels driven. who knows what it is 20-20khz! many speakers dip down to 4ohms or lower at some frequencies. so basically, if you want really clean 2 channel sound, you probably need to be listening in 2 channel mode. we love dennon and sell a ton of it, but if it was my 500 bucks.....




good luck, and please LISTEN before you purchase anything no matter what the reviews



oscar

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