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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have two rows of 3 seats coming from Serge's Power Buy... the rear seats will be on a 7" riser.


The AV console/table-stand will be approximately 12 feet in front of the seats on the front wall below my 100" FireHawk Screen.


I plan to run 4 12ga speaker lines from behind the AV stand directly back to the seats underneath carpeting. Before the carpeting/padding goes down, I'm going to have my builder (new construction) cut out a groove in the concrete floor for the speaker lines so that they may be sealed in the concrete and you wont feel a groove beneath the carpet when you walk over it. Hind sight is 20/20, I'd rather have conduit laid in the foundation before it was poured, but thats a mute point now.


So,


My plan is to get 4 kickers/shakers and an amp.... I figure in each row of 3 seats, I'd bolt two kickers/shakers somewhere inside close to the inner arm rests of each row.

http://www.htmarket.com has 4 buttkickers like these for sale as a package for $889:

http://store1.yimg.com/I/htmarket_1859_179560687


They also have an Amp with a quick connection set up for 4 kickers for $559:
http://store1.yimg.com/I/htmarket_1859_179893767


So for about $1450, I can be setup to rock and roll my seats...


Is this $1450 from HT market a good deal? Any bettter deals out there?


Maybe with my 525watt SVS PC-Ultra sub, I may not even need shakers... the PC ULTRA is certainly gonna thump all on its own.


I've never experienced a kicker/shaker first hand... do these things really work? Or is it merely a light "vibration"?


Thanks,

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hmmmm... just read the details, it comes with:


"- One 20' length of 14 gauge speaker wire with banana type connectors for connecting the "Quick Connect - Quick Select Box" to the Buttkicker Power Amplifier."


And


"- Four 12' lengths of 14 gauge speaker wire with banana type connectors for connecting the "Quick Connect - Quick Select Box" to the Buttkicker Power Amplifier."


So,


I really only need to cut one groove in the concrete floor to run the 20ft wire from the ButtKicker Amp (connected to the receiver via a Y splitter from the Sub Out), back to the Quick Select Box somewhere in the riser, which then runs 4 sets of wire to the kickers.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/htmarket_1858_23071637



Right?
 

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Honestly, 4 Buttkickers will likely be overkill! I'd start with the amp and 2 shakers, and see what you think. These things move some serious mass. Your rear platform will actually be a better feel than the seats just on the ground, and I actually recommend lifting both sets if you can.
 

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I bought my LFE kit from Amazon, you might want to check their prices. I also got free shipping.


Try calling Buttkicker with any concerns, the tech guys are really helpful. Also my amp was making a buzzing sound and another member here said his was silent. Called Buttkicker today and they are sending a new replacement amp and return labels for the old one today. Great company and excellent customer service!
 

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OMG, 4 Buttkickers?! The one I have on my chair nearly shakes me right out of the thing and I don't even have it (the BK amp) turned up to the halfway point!
 

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I'm running with two installed in a 10' x 5' platform with three media chairs on it. Both powered by the Buttkicker AMP. Works really well. Each BK is bolted to the underside of the platform and the platform is supported by 6 kinetic isolators. The islolaters really let the platform move freely. http://www.begala.net/albums/album24...s/DSC02600.JPG


- Michael
 

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Besides the seemingly popular ButtKickers, another similar product is by Crowson, their TES 100 couch kit. Anyone familiar with it? Compared to ButtKicker?

Take Aim
 

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I also think two BK's will be plenty; I have one on a reinforced couch that's over 800 lb with a full load of people.


Also, if it's the regular BK amp, you'll be getting only half the power from it w/4 as with 2; 2 are wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load, the lowest the amp will take; the second set will have to be wired in series, doubling impedance anf halving the power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks guys,


Mbgala, where can I get some kinetic isolators? [edit] Nevermind, I just found them on htmarket... just little rubber feet.[edit]


Since the quick connect kit comes with the selector for 4 kickers... I think I'll start with two, just one kicker for each row and see what that does.


So you guys recommend connecting the shaker to a riser rather than the seat/couch itself huh? I would have thought that connecting the shaker directly to the riser might result in some kind of weird resonance?


Also, if a single shaker is installed underneath and to the riser directly, where do you recommend placment? Center? Same for a single kicker on a row of three with no riser? Place the kicker underneath the middle seat?


M.
 

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Actually, attached to the riser is best because EVERYTHING shakes. If it's just attached to a couch or chair, then you don't get the same feeling of motion if your feet are on the floor for example.
 

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Hi gentlemen....My situation is quite similar to Mark's here. The room is 21 by 20 and the riser was provided by the builder and it is 7-8 inches high. House is being constructed but all this has already been done. Now my seating arrangement ( which is yet to be determined - going with 2 rows of 4 seats of Berk 090 leather match ) and I also have 12 AMC theater seats against the back wall.


I was pricing my buy though the internet and Amazon.com and e-bay. From this discussion I gather that getting 8 kickers and 2 Amps and the quick connect package is TOO MUCH.

So 2 for each row of 4 seats should be plenty then?? And can someone please tell me how I can place these shakers under the riser?? Since the carpet hasn't been laid yet, I guess I can cut the riser and insert the units there?? 2 of them then...where abouts?? Any links to diagrams detailing this??


I went ahead and purchased 12 shakers ( 6 pro and 6 ASTs with the Amp and their version of the quick connect package in unopened box ) and if you guys here think that the kickers are way better than the shakers then I will put the shakers for sale and go for the kickers instead.


Thanks gentlemen. Hey Mark let me know how yours goes. My house and theater are a month or so off. But would it make it significantly harder once the carpet is laid to go and put these under the riser??? Help!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Ducati
My plan is to get 4 kickers/shakers and an amp.... I figure in each row of 3 seats, I'd bolt two kickers/shakers somewhere inside close to the inner arm rests of each row.
Hi Mark,


Do you have the inside dimensions of your arm rests? The ButtKickers are rather large and may not fit. Here's the Dimensional Drawings .


I have two ButtKickers installed in the wedge arms of my front row of my Jaymar recliners. They won't fit in the straight arms, and in my case there's a base on the bottom of the straight arms. The wedge arms had no base and installation was relatively straight forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Ducati
I've never experienced a kicker/shaker first hand... do these things really work? Or is it merely a light "vibration"?
The effect is definately not subtle. I've joked about getting seatbelts installed on my recliners. ;)


Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Ducati
So you guys recommend connecting the shaker to a riser rather than the seat/couch itself huh? I would have thought that connecting the shaker directly to the riser might result in some kind of weird resonance?


Also, if a single shaker is installed underneath and to the riser directly, where do you recommend placment? Center? Same for a single kicker on a row of three with no riser? Place the kicker underneath the middle seat?
Hi Mark,


I've got two ButtKickers installed inside a 6'x12'x14" seating platform with four recliners on it. I've got three Kinetic Isolators on each short end of the platform. As I mentioned I also have two ButtKickers installed in the wedge arms of the front row. Each pair of transducers are powered by a ButtKicker amplifier.


Tastes of course vary, but I prefer the feeling of the riser. I've got the High Frequency Cutoff set to 45 Hz on both rows of seating. The platform is powered on at 100%, the first row is powered at about 50%. Even with the reduced power, the seats with the directly connected ButtKickers can occasionally be too violent and therefore distracting.


If you weren't going to use Kinetic Isolators, a 7" riser might be a little too close for comfort. The isolators should add sufficient additional clearance to permit fitting the ButtKickers. The ButtKicker folks recommend placing the Kinetic Isolators so as to encourage flexing of the platform, hence no support along the long ends. If you were to use just one ButtKicker it should be mounted in the center to permit maximum deflections. Since I have two ButtKicker in the platform I choose to space them about a third of the way.


The only problem with starting off with one ButtKicker in the riser, and seeing how it feels, is one of logistics. My riser was very heavy and I wanted to be sure I had enough shaking, because it would have been a pain in the butt to remove all my seating, then round up a bunch of friends to help me flip it over so I can add an extra transducer, and then reassemble the row of seats.


As I mentioned before, for ButtKickers directly connected to the seating you've got to be sure they will fit, but equally important you've got to make sure whatever you attach them to is rigidly attached to the seating. In my first row there is a loveseat with wedge arms rigidly attached to the center seating. As a result that's where the tranducers go, and the vibration is maximum in there. The two seats on the end of the first row are not rigidly attached to the wedge arms, but they do share the arm rests with the occupants of the loveseat, so there is still a satisfactory amount of vibration transmitted to the end seats.


Larry
 

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Don't want to be the party pooper, but for that much money, I would go with another PC Ultra instead. Better off to pressurize the room with heart pounding bass that was meant to be recreated in such a way then to use an artificial tactile transducer which provides no pressure or sound. Two PC Ultras will also give your risers some shake - not as much as the buttkickers - but it would be a better representation of the source material.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas
Don't want to be the party pooper, but for that much money, I would go with another PC Ultra instead. Better off to pressurize the room with heart pounding bass that was meant to be recreated in such a way then to use an artificial tactile transducer which provides no pressure or sound. Two PC Ultras will also give your risers some shake - not as much as the buttkickers - but it would be a better representation of the source material.
Hi Steve,


No amount of PC Ultra subwoofers will be able to feasibly deliver the amount of power at infrasonic frequencies as the ButtKickers. Their natural resonant frequency is 9 Hz and they're designed to deliver a significant amount of vibrations down to 5 Hz.


Nevertheless, it shouldn't be about one or the other. Tactile transducers augment subwoofers, by delivering lower vibrations. Just as subwoofers are designed to augment our main speakers, by delivering lower sounds. I wouldn't want to dispense with my tactile transducers by buying two subwoofers anymore than I would dispense with my subwoofer by buying two sets of main speakers.


With regard to realism, it really depends on the source of the sound. Is it really more realistic to try to deliver the vibration of an earthquake via the air versus the floor? Isn't a speaker just as artificial in delivering the sound of a live venue?


Larry
 

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Having both CS-Ultra AND a Buttkicker LFE, I can tell you they are both important contributors to my environment.
 

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If you were going to try to take it to another level, you could check out the D-BOX Motion Simulators. They are the best thing out there:

www.d-box.com
 
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