[F-Trader]

NEWBIE here


Been lurking for a few months on this site gathering info.


Great site BTW.


Picture Quality is very important to me, why else would you buy a TV ???


I love the look of CRT RPTV in the dark with a well calibrated TV.


However, I need a TV for a 12' x 17' room that is well lit with huge glass patio doors. The TV will sit in the corner on an angle (my Toshiba 30" Cinema Series sits there now). I have so-called Digital (Analog) cable with Charter Communications.


Viewing distance will be 9' - 12', slight angle.


My viewing habits: 50% analog cable, 25% Nintendo Gamecube (kids) and 25% DVD.


I've decided to go with either LCD or DLP (leaning towards this).


I am looking for approx 53" under $5,000.


I've noticed a thread here about the 2004 CES and new Chips coming out this JUNE?


Will this Chip be far "SUPERIOR" to the current chip, or just slighty better?


Should I wait until next Christmas and buy the "NEW" chip, or Buy NOW?


I will assume that by waiting I will pay more $$$ for the new sets with the new chip, any idea how much more?


Thanks in advance


Mac

 

[Undeadpaladin]

If you wait till then the 2005 ces will be right aroudn the corner and new models... it's and endless cycle.


I got a GWIII 50 incher and couldn't be happier. I love my tv and wouldn't give it up for anything. I honestly can't see how it can improve next year.


My vote, take the plunge and be happy on a kickass tv no matter what you get dlp or lcd.

 

[vandammeman]

I have had a 60"GWIII for a month now, and have to say as far as picture quality go's, the cost vs performance ratio is really good. so go for it now, also the Panasonic LCD rear's are even lower priced and competitive performance to boot, plus lots of inputs including two rgb's. i did originally purchase a Hitachi 50v500 as was totally disappointed, my retailer, ABC warehouse was great, and exchanged for the 60"Sony, no question. So a good dealer is important. Thing i like most about the Sony is the almost total lack of screen door effect, and lack of color bleed. Dislikes? not nearly user adjustable as the Hitachi.To me the dlp's suffer from one flaw most people don't talk about much, but i really notice, is the grainy,crawling ant like effect, and flicker, plus the prices are much higher. pick an LCD rear that you like, get some type of hd reception, and enjoy now. you won't be sorry.

 

[eganov]

There was another thread like this right before CES 2003. I'm no expert, just an avid lurker but my opinion is the same now as then. I'd wait. Why. Right now doesn't seem to be a particularly good time to buy a DLP/LCD. They're great TV's but you pay a high price for them and they have issues that most early-generation products do. See threads on GWIII buzzes and the various idiosyncrisies(?) of each technology. Add to that the variability of HD prgramming signals (480p, 720p, 1080i) and the inconsistent use of HD in even one program; i.e. some cameras in MNF are HD some not. Further, HD-DVD is coming but your still stuck with regular 480p DVD for now. Also, interconnects between display and source components are moving towards pure digital (DVI, HDMI), eliminating the DA-AD conversions and subsequent PQ degradation. Intel is jumping in w/LCos which will hopefully bring lower prices and better quality. Also, HD tuners will shortly be built in - hopefully for minimal incremental cost instead of the $300+ they cost now as external units. On top of all this these sets are selling real well and many retailers are out of them so don't expect many big discounts.

Yes, there is always something on the horizon with new technology and you miss out on todays great TV's while waiting for tomorrows perfect one but it just seems to me that the volatility is just too high right now to warrant spending $4K+. Of course, if you've got the means and can upgrade again in three years go for it. If not, why not wait till the Fall and reassess. Heck, it's just TV! If you can't wait and want to hedge your bet, buy a $1500 CRT-RPTV now, use it for a couple of years while the other stuff shakes out a bit, then take the big bite.

Incoming..........

 

[F-Trader]

Quote:

Originally posted by eganov There was another thread like this right before CES 2003. I'm no expert, just an avid lurker but my opinion is the same now as then. I'd wait. Why. Right now doesn't seem to be a particularly good time to buy a DLP/LCD. They're great TV's but you pay a high price for them and they have issues that most early-generation products do. See threads on GWIII buzzes and the various idiosyncrisies(?) of each technology. Add to that the variability of HD prgramming signals (480p, 720p, 1080i) and the inconsistent use of HD in even one program; i.e. some cameras in MNF are HD some not. Further, HD-DVD is coming but your still stuck with regular 480p DVD for now. Also, interconnects between display and source components are moving towards pure digital (DVI, HDMI), eliminating the DA-AD conversions and subsequent PQ degradation. Intel is jumping in w/LCos which will hopefully bring lower prices and better quality. Also, HD tuners will shortly be built in - hopefully for minimal incremental cost instead of the $300+ they cost now as external units. On top of all this these sets are selling real well and many retailers are out of them so don't expect many big discounts. Yes, there is always something on the horizon with new technology and you miss out on todays great TV's while waiting for tomorrows perfect one but it just seems to me that the volatility is just too high right now to warrant spending $4K+. Of course, if you've got the means and can upgrade again in three years go for it. If not, why not wait till the Fall and reassess. Heck, it's just TV! If you can't wait and want to hedge your bet, buy a $1500 CRT-RPTV now, use it for a couple of years while the other stuff shakes out a bit, then take the big bite. Incoming..........

I would like to have a HD Tuner (built in)


I realize that the market is changing rapidly, and no matter what I buy it will most likely be obsolete within 6-9 months. If we weren't in the early stages then it would be NO big deal. However, the picture just isn't as good IMO as a good CRT RPTV that is calibrated.


I am definately buying a NEW set this year by Christmas (I can't wait any longer, LOL), either LCD or DLP. I like the style and lightweight, plus the fact that I can view LCD/DLP in a room with a lot of light. I don't like having to sit in the sweet spot for CRT RPTV.


What I really wanted to know was about these NEW CHIPS that are coming out?


Are they going to be Much better, or just slightly better?


Mac

 

[vandammeman]

The Lcos phillips i looked at , had everything in a tv you could want, except a good picture, it had terrible gray scale and no color saturation, a very washed out picture. so no, i think Lcos has a ways to go. i heard sony will do a three chip lcos, instead of a single, but is about a year away. it is supposed to eliminate the problem i described above. Again as far as price goes, you can get sony GwIII's, or the Panasonic lcd's for just over $2,000, depending on the size and model. Hell, crt rpt"s cost that much, and as far as built in tuners go, separtes are alway's better anyway. Right? dish network will even give you one, along WITH a pvr, installed for free, and it will recieve your over the air dtv to boot. GO FOR IT NOW DUDE!

 

[eganov]

You can find all the info you want about the new chips in other CES 2003 threads. The net is yes, PQ will probably better. How much? Nobody knows as it depends on the implementation. There's more to PQ than just the chip. Whether you should buy or wait depends on you. If you've got 5 grand to spend, have a high buyers remorse threshold and can afford to buy again in 3 years - buy now! If this is a big purchase for you, have a low buyers remorse threshold and won't be buying another for 5+ years - wait. It's just TV dude!

 

[Ineedanewtv]

Quote:

Originally posted by eganov There was another thread like this right before CES 2003. I'm no expert, just an avid lurker but my opinion is the same now as then. I'd wait. Why. Right now doesn't seem to be a particularly good time to buy a DLP/LCD. They're great TV's but you pay a high price for them and they have issues that most early-generation products do. See threads on GWIII buzzes and the various idiosyncrisies(?) of each technology. Add to that the variability of HD prgramming signals (480p, 720p, 1080i) and the inconsistent use of HD in even one program; i.e. some cameras in MNF are HD some not. Further, HD-DVD is coming but your still stuck with regular 480p DVD for now. Also, interconnects between display and source components are moving towards pure digital (DVI, HDMI), eliminating the DA-AD conversions and subsequent PQ degradation. Intel is jumping in w/LCos which will hopefully bring lower prices and better quality. Also, HD tuners will shortly be built in - hopefully for minimal incremental cost instead of the $300+ they cost now as external units. On top of all this these sets are selling real well and many retailers are out of them so don't expect many big discounts. Yes, there is always something on the horizon with new technology and you miss out on todays great TV's while waiting for tomorrows perfect one but it just seems to me that the volatility is just too high right now to warrant spending $4K+. Of course, if you've got the means and can upgrade again in three years go for it. If not, why not wait till the Fall and reassess. Heck, it's just TV! If you can't wait and want to hedge your bet, buy a $1500 CRT-RPTV now, use it for a couple of years while the other stuff shakes out a bit, then take the big bite. Incoming..........

I really think that is sound advice. Buying a set now or later will also largely depend on personal factors such as the satisfaction you have with your present set.


I'm just hoping that in a few years we will see similar price declines in HDTV's that we saw in DVD players. Then it won't be a question of what HDTV to buy, but how many.

 

[Mayor McCheese]

I would definitely wait at least until the new DLP sets are out this spring/summer (assuming no delays). I'm not sure I would wait until next Christmas because you're likely to get trapped into waiting again. I started looking for a new TV last April and since then I've found so many reasons to wait that I am going crazy. I've about decided to get a nice 42" ED Plasma as an interim TV until a 1080p RPTV or flat panel (with a decent pricetag) becomes available. Of course, next week I'll probably change my mind

 

[bw03]

I wanted a bigger TV back in December. I just bought a sony gwii earlier this month and couldn't be happier (kf60xbr800). There will always be something better down the line. Just get what you want now and enjoy it.

 

[F-Trader]

Quote:

Originally posted by eganov You can find all the info you want about the new chips in other CES 2003 threads. The net is yes, PQ will probably better. How much? Nobody knows as it depends on the implementation. There's more to PQ than just the chip. Whether you should buy or wait depends on you. If you've got 5 grand to spend, have a high buyers remorse threshold and can afford to buy again in 3 years - buy now! If this is a big purchase for you, have a low buyers remorse threshold and won't be buying another for 5+ years - wait. It's just TV dude!

This is not a big purchase for me. However, if in June these new chips are coming out then 5 months is no big deal to me. I have 7 TV's (all direct view) to keep me company until then.


I don't want to get a TV now and then kick myself in 4-5 months.


I would like to have a Tuner built-in, if possible. I find it "IRONIC" that these so-called flat screens, thinner TV's etc... all concerned with minmizing space don't come with a Tuner.


Am I supposed go go out and buy a large seperate tuner? Isn't the idea to keep everything clean, easier lines, take up less space, etc...


BTW, what do people do who with their OLD TV's when they buy new? I have no room left in my house for any more TV's, especially a large one.


Is there a market besides EBAY to sell these sets?


Mac

 

[twentw]

Quote:

I would like to have a Tuner built-in, if possible. I find it "IRONIC" that these so-called flat screens, thinner TV's etc... all concerned with minmizing space don't come with a Tuner.

I have absolutely no use for a tuner. One of the main reasons I want to buy now is so that I don't have to spend money on the tuner, which will soon be required in all sets by FCC decree.

 

[Jet Champion]

Don't buy LCD now--it doesn't produce blacks--it produces grays--therefore by definition it is unacceptable. It also sucks and I haven't heard of any great improvements for it coming down the pike in 2004. DLP with the new HD2+chip and the seven segment color wheel MIGHT be worth waiting for--I'd wait until September and if DLP didn't ring your chimes by then then I'd buy the best RPTV CRT, enjoy it, and 5years later buy something decent.

 

[veets]

Count me in as wanting a set with a built-in tuner. I have an attic antenna and want to receive over-the-air HDTV signals. The cost could be minimal (under $100) with volume production once they are installed in all sets. I really don't want to have one more box sitting under my set. Not to mention the extra cables and remote.

 

[Billped]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jet Champion Don't buy LCD now--it doesn't produce blacks--it produces grays--therefore by definition it is unacceptable. It also sucks ....

Ah, the power of subjective statements.


I spent two hours checking out the Samsung DLP and three LCD projection TVs (Sony, Hitachi, and Panasonic). Yes, the viewing was in an area with relatively bright lights, but so is my living room, so it is completely applicable. There was ZERO difference in black levels between the four sets in those conditions. I even brought a flat black object with me to compare the screen image to. No difference in black levels, no difference in shadow detail, and no crushed blacks.


LCD is also ~$1K less expensive than DLP. For the same money, that means I can watch SD on DLP or HDTV on DLP. Now which looks better?


I'm not arguing against DLP (though I am one of the 1% that gets immediate migraines from watching them) and I fully understand the benefits the technology offers, but to say "it [LCD] sucks" is rather unhelpful.



Bill

 

[Jet Champion]

If DLP gives you headaches I would never mess with it. CURRENT LCD really doesn't produce great blacks--I've seen it with my own eyes. See I don't care if the video industry makes only LCD and every individual in the world links hands and prays to almighty God for me to believe that LCD is great because I know it isn't--in the future it might be--the real reason I get under some people's skin is that I know the truth. I don't argue with other people liking LCD or with it perfectly meeting their needs. I argue with the video industry for prducing a technology such as LCD which can objectively be proven not to be better than other older technologies and trying to cram it down our throat while making tons of money. If the cost for LCD was 1-cent I'd still say it sucks. Company shills and people who love it because they have purchased it doesn't change the truth. Truth is absolute not relative--alot of people hate this fact. Why? Because it either forces them to try to obtain perfection which is very hard to do OR it forces them to admit theyre worthless which is also painful. Like Jack Nicholson says"You can't handle the truth!" I can't handle it either--what makes me different than some people is that at least I know what it is and know that I can't handle it!

 

[grizzledbiker]

I agree with you. Dad (75) bought a sammy dlp and loves it. no problems with dve. seperation between color bars looked really good. caught a brief flash of a "rainbow" during a rapid scene change. nothing really noticeable. But I do notice a horizontal waviness during camera pans of outdoor scenes. Other than that, great set.


But . . . I like the LCD rptvs. And am hard pressed to choose one. I also like plasmas and am only a mouse click away from ordering a panny ED. Been to CC twice already this week and will go again tomorrow. My biggest gripe? Whites! The're running a 30" Sony LCD flat panel right next to a bank of plasmas. Same feed. The whites on that LCD simply blows away what the plasmas can do. Now my question is will the whites on a LCD rptv be just as good? I'll going to look a little closer tomorrow. and we'll see.


give me a 1280x768+ 40-50" LCD flat panel with 800:1+ CR and 500cd/m+ brightness for

 

[Kpt_Krunch]

Quote:

Originally posted by twentw I have absolutely no use for a tuner. One of the main reasons I want to buy now is so that I don't have to spend money on the tuner, which will soon be required in all sets by FCC decree.

I second this one. Up here in Canada there is no HD 'over the air signal', and won't be for 5 years at least - unless your fortunate enough to live near the US border and near a major US city. The Sony XBR LCD has a built in tuner, is useless to me, and makes the set a lot more (a few hundred $'s for sure, but can't remember the exact price) than the WE version.


As for the LCD/DLP thing, man, I'm getting sick of this. Every thread I read, someone runs down LCD, then the LCD guy runs down DLP, etc. etc. etc.


All I can say is quit it please. Buy the set that looks best to you. DLP is a hot seller, as is LCD, so obviously both types of technology are appealing to people.


I personally prefer the DLP, so I bought one. That doesn't mean I hate LCD - in fact I like LCD quite a bit. I just find I personally prefer the DLP. I'm not wrong in my decision, nor is the person who bought the LCD wrong in theirs.


I do like the posts of the various issues each set has though. This way we are informed and no company can pull the wool over our eyes.


As for the original question F-Trader - I would wait until you find a picture you can live with. Don't worry about 'waiting' for the next chip, or the next version! If you like what you see now, like I did, and you can afford the price, like I can, then buy it. If you can't afford it, or feel you can't live with the LCD/DLP picture then wait. Asking here will get you no where unfortunately, as you get good arguments for both sides, and you end up making your own decision anyway.


Just my 2 cents, back to watch my DLP now (I could get hit by a bus tomorrow you know, so could you or anyone else. In fact, I can almost guarantee that someone tomorrow will be killed or maimed somewhere in North America - probably many - I wonder how many of them were 'waiting' to buy something for the past year and expired before they could enjoy the fruits of their labour!)

 

[F-Trader]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jet Champion If DLP gives you headaches I would never mess with it. CURRENT LCD really doesn't produce great blacks--I've seen it with my own eyes. See I don't care if the video industry makes only LCD and every individual in the world links hands and prays to almighty God for me to believe that LCD is great because I know it isn't--in the future it might be--the real reason I get under some people's skin is that I know the truth. I don't argue with other people liking LCD or with it perfectly meeting their needs. I argue with the video industry for prducing a technology such as LCD which can objectively be proven not to be better than other older technologies and trying to cram it down our throat while making tons of money. If the cost for LCD was 1-cent I'd still say it sucks. Company shills and people who love it because they have purchased it doesn't change the truth. Truth is absolute not relative--alot of people hate this fact. Why? Because it either forces them to try to obtain perfection which is very hard to do OR it forces them to admit theyre worthless which is also painful. Like Jack Nicholson says"You can't handle the truth!" I can't handle it either--what makes me different than some people is that at least I know what it is and know that I can't handle it!

Why would this technology give people a Headache?


I was at C.C. and I viewed the Samsung DLP next to the Hitachi LCD, and the Sony LCD. I thought the Samsung looked the best.


How long should I stare at the DLP? Is one hour enough?


Why doesn't LCD give people a headache?


Thanks


Mac

 

[xb1032]

Billped,


You didn't look at enough stores to give these sets a fair comparison. I compared all the LCD sets to the Samsung DLP many times at different stores and there was an obvious difference. However, if lighting is very bright in your viewing area, the blacks will be closer. The Hitachi definitely has the best blacks of the LCDs, but the others aren't as good as the Samsung.


F-Trader,


A 53" under $5000 will be easy to find with a DLP or LCD set. Panasonic is supposed to come out with DLPs this summer and in the fall they'll have the same models with built in tuners (50" $3500 and 60" models $4499. Add $500 for the tuner). Samsungs HD3 sets will have the same price as the current HD2 models. Toshiba are supposed to have DLP sets late this year. Samsung will have a 50" and 56" free standing model later this year with the HD2+ chips. I believe that Panasonic and Toshiba are supposed to be using the HD2+ chip.


As far as price goes, I don't think that much will be worth happening this year that would justify waiting. However, if I didn't have to buy now I'd definitely wait. I own the HLN617W and like it but am disappointed with night time black levels and dullness in dark scenes which is supposed to be improved in the newer models (especially the HD2+ sets).


** Note to all considering the current DLPs: One thing I never really noticed on the showroom was how different black levels look with the lights off as opposed to daytime viewing. There is a considerable difference. Compared to my previous Sony 35" direct view, the Samsung was on par with the black levels during the day but at night the blacks are more grayish. Not sure how to describe this but it really does make a difference. Someone else noted this when I was reviewing the DLPs but I didn't pay too much attention to this. The second note is that the Samsung DLP has poor contrast in darker scenes which is supposed to be improved in the newer models. Unfortunately those who went to CES couldn't comment on the improvements as all scenes were bright type pictures which will not bring out these flaws in DLPs. Just as a side note, LCDs are no better than DLPs in this area.

Quote:

Originally posted by Billped Ah, the power of subjective statements. I spent two hours checking out the Samsung DLP and three LCD projection TVs (Sony, Hitachi, and Panasonic). Yes, the viewing was in an area with relatively bright lights, but so is my living room, so it is completely applicable. There was ZERO difference in black levels between the four sets in those conditions. I even brought a flat black object with me to compare the screen image to. No difference in black levels, no difference in shadow detail, and no crushed blacks. LCD is also ~$1K less expensive than DLP. For the same money, that means I can watch SD on DLP or HDTV on DLP. Now which looks better? I'm not arguing against DLP (though I am one of the 1% that gets immediate migraines from watching them) and I fully understand the benefits the technology offers, but to say "it [LCD] sucks" is rather unhelpful. Bill