[jmhumr]

I'm in the market for an LCD TV (~40"). Problem is, after reading through the threads on this forum, it doesn't seem like there's one out there that doesn't have substantial problems (Sony "cloudiness", etc).


I'm already frustrated with the fact that these TV companies are making it so darn hard to drop a couple thousand on a TV. In September 2006 I bought a Samsung plasma and exchanged it twice before returning it for good. That was a horrible (and exhausting) experience, and I don't want to deal w with a situtation like that again.


So I ask this: Is now a bad time to buy an LCD TV, or should I wait for another 6 months or so? Perhaps these threads misleading, and certain ~40" LCD TVs are actually very reliable and bug-free?

 

[Nmlobo]

Have you checked the JVC threads? These sets seem to have very few problems. If you wait six months, there will likely be a new batch of sets on the market with a new set of problems.

 

[stephenC]

jmhumr - My best advice to you is to think about your entire home environment. If you really want to purchase a LCD set now, but you think you might have buyer's remorse in 6 months then buy something now that you can rotate into a guest room, the kitchen, the master bathroom, the pool house, the maid's room, etc. Then in six months you can buy the latest and greatest LCD set (probably cheaper and better than the one you buy today).

 

[Nmlobo]

I agree with stephenC that you might buy now with an eye to tomorrow.


I'm just not sure how much better newer sets will be. Better contrast, better color, higher resloutions, etc maybe. But it seems that each new generation of sets arrive with their own new problems. Nothing is perfect, nor will it ever be. We can always find a reason to wait and in the meantime we miss out on the good viewing that already exists.

 

[DBLASS]

Whatever advancements in technology that was going to come out, they came out before Christmas. There is no real advancement anticipated over the next 6 months.


BTW, the cloudiness is brightness non-uniformity caused by uneven pressure from the plastic case around the display on the Sony. It is a workmanship not technology issue.


DB

 

[savage1005]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS /forum/post/0


Whatever advancements in technology that was going to come out, they came out before Christmas. There is no real advancement anticipated over the next 6 months.

DB

no real advancement anticipated? what about 120hz, hdmi 1.3, and better contrast?

 

[DBLASS]

In the next few months, no (IMHO). 120Hz is not real, yet. HDMI is coming out, but do you need it? Now? Later? For LCDs, there will not be any real improvement in contrast in the next 6 months.


DB

 

[AKA BUD]

A couple of thoughts...in 6 months, the new 2008 models should be coming out meaning that mfg's/retailers could be reducing prices to clear out older inventory. So, if you'ld be interested in a current year product you could potentially save some $$$.


Also, could the various mfg's who currently have sets with problems correct those issues in that time frame...or will they just bring out a "new and improved" model with possibly other problems? I would say that there's not a manufacturer out there that doesn't have a set or sets without some sort of issue. I doubt if issues/problems of some sort would not be there in 6 months.


I noticed that you had returned a Samsung plasma twice for your own reasons. However, have you ever considered a Panasonic plasma such as the TH-XXPX60U? Reviews on the Panasonic plasmas have been very positive and are regarded as one of the best around. Just a thought. For an LCD, I know two people who have Sony lcd's...one has the KDL 40S2010 and the other a KDL 46S2010. Neither of them have had any complaints about their Sonys.

 

[scooby]

There is always going to be something cheaper or better coming out around the corner. If you wait until it stops you will never get a set. Like others have said get something you will enjoy now and use it. Then 6 months - x years from now you can put it elsewhere and buy newer technology for your main set.


There are going to be huge advancements in LCD technology over the next few years. In my opinion there is no use waiting while you can enjoy the current technology now.

 

[jmhumr]

Thanks for all of your responses so far. However, let me clarify something: I'm not concerned with holding out for a better performing set. My motive for holding out until the late-summer is the hope that companies will start perfecting the design/manufacture of the current LCD capability -- ie, maturity in the current LCD capability.


From many of the replies so far, it seems like the feeling is that companies will continue to cram more immature technology into the next round of sets, and the problems will continue as a result. Is this true? Or will companies actually put some effort into refining the TVs they currently produce in order to deliver a more reliable and glitch-free set?

 

[shawndover]

What about LED backlighting? Is that a significant advancement, and can we expect to see it on new models from Sony, Samsung, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by savage1005 /forum/post/0


no real advancement anticipated? what about 120hz, hdmi 1.3, and better contrast?

 

[DBLASS]

TFT LCDs are 17 years old. Everytime the industry fixed something, it usually screwed up something else. Look at cars. They have been around for 100 years. Are they perfect yet???


DB

 

[Nmlobo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS /forum/post/0


In the next few months, no (IMHO). 120Hz is not real, yet. HDMI is coming out, but do you need it? Now? Later? For LCDs, there will not be any real improvement in contrast in the next 6 months.


DB

The JVC LT-37X987 is a 120hz set and is available now.

 

[Irunnoft]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS /forum/post/0


BTW, the cloudiness is brightness non-uniformity caused by uneven pressure from the plastic case around the display on the Sony. It is a workmanship not technology issue.


DB

FWIW, I think you're right about the cause of the cloudiness on the XBRs. I think it has something more to do with stress or the structure of the TV. I could be wrong, but it's hard to imagine 9 out of 10 panels rolling off the line defective.


Anyhow, I was in the same boat as the OP. I wasn't sure whether to return and just get my money and wait for HDMI 1.3, etc. I opted not to wait, in the long run because a) I'm impatient b) I didn't see any evidence that the newest iteration of HDMI was just around the corner.

 

[Nmlobo]

I'm nearly positive it is NOT the panels causing the cloudiness on the XBRs and some Samsungs. JVCs use these panels as well and we are not hearing of this problem on their sets. It could be stress or structure but I suspect it is the new back lights both Sony and Samsung are using with these panels that is causing the problems.


Irunnoft, I believe your not waiting for HDMI 1.3 was a wise decision. It would not be just your television that would need to be 1.3 capable. In order to 'see' any visual benefit with this upgraded standard you would have to upgrade your input devices (STB, DVD player etc) to HDMI 1.3 as well.

 

[DBLASS]

Again, I have been in the OEM side of TFTs for 17 years. Really, clouds are stress non-uniformities on the cell caused by the enclosure. I own the Sony V2500 and I see it. My industry and my TV, yep, its there. If you want to turn down the backlight a bit AND turn down the brightness/contrast adjustments, you can minimize the clouds but it probably will affect other performance or appearance issue.


BTW, the OEM display mfgs allow up to 30% non-uniformities across the display. This is before they are packaged, but they do tolerate a great deal of variance.


Also, I am not up on the 120Hz deal but I do know that the LCD displays inside the sets can only go 60hZ. 120Hz must buy the front end electronics something but I really think that you are no better than your weakest link. LCDs are still slow. Perhaps a newer, faster frontend can fake it out a bit. But to wait and/or spend more money??? I don't know???


LED backlighting is coming but there are still issues with them. On large LCDs, CCFLs are tried and proven. Getting the same lumens per watt, spread over a large area, uniformly is the issue. LED will make the LCD based TV last nearly forever since it is the CCFLs that get dim over life. The LCD material is about 125K hours before it wears out (but it will).


DB

 

[westa6969]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS /forum/post/0


Also, I am not up on the 120Hz deal but I do know that the LCD displays inside the sets can only go 60hZ. 120Hz must buy the front end electronics something but I really think that you are no better than your weakest link. LCDs are still slow. Perhaps a newer, faster frontend can fake it out a bit. But to wait and/or spend more money??? I don't know???


DB

Please reference Micronas TruDHD Chip that provides the 100/120hz for Europe and US Panels. Perhaps you see this as hocus Pocus - most of us find it impressive if it works as demo'd.

http://www.micronas.com/products/tru...e%2Findex.html


Mike53 of Sharp USA explained that Sharp is using this processing before Sharp informed him he could no longer participate here just before CEDIA but he spent over a year sharing Sharp Innnovations and separating Fact/Fiction. One of the most reliable contributors we've ever had here. I don't think he would support many of your assertions and in some respects I challenge some of the statements you make regarding contrast ratio's - I own three generations of Sharp and CR differential between the three are distinct as are the improved colors. I'm speaking as an owner. Perhaps Mike was on the Marketing side to much but he proved to be quite helpful and reliable. I sometimes get confused as to whether you believe in LCD or not as you seem to challenge the technology you work in.


I won't challenge your science or credentials but my eyes don't lie. The Contrast ratio on an SXRD or Ruby provides details within that CR and it has been lab tested in Dr. Soniera's shootout and others and that CR >10K:1 provides Details in darkness and shadows you would not otherwise observe and providing a WoW factor the Plasma I owned could not come close to - a Panasonic 500U (which I could not tolerate in my sunny room/hated it). I observe your statements and must take your word but as an owner of PDP, SXRD and four LCD's the improvements have each been a step up and forward - the color range and blacks on my 57" from my previous 45" that was built the year previous.


I'm not saying your wrong or looking to pick a fight but are you saying those seeking high CR of Ruby, SXRD and the new JVC FP and these D92's are a bunch of fools or the videophile members here that have reported back from CES? What you say may make sense as an OEM but my ownership and viewing of a wide range and others that report back to us from CES seems to contradict your assertions unless we're all a bunch of fools feeding into the frenzy? Was Mike53 of Sharp just marketing BS? He was reliable until Sharp felt he was releasing to much info and to soon on this forum.


BTW thank you for sharing even if I don't agree with all, it's been helpful to see another perspective.

As to the waiting six months? Someone asks that constantly - CES Comes and then we wait for the next few months to a year and then the European Show, and then the Sony Show in March and then Mitsubishi in May and so on and so on. You have to pull the trigger when you choose the technology and budget is a match for your eyes. Then we wait for CEDIA and then we're close to another CES and the Merry Go Round starts over! Have fun with it if you can afford to be an early adopter that can live with and afford the cost of doing so. Or buy the passing generation as long as it's not the banding which none of mine have had.

 

[DBLASS]

Having been in the same industry for 17 years, I know first hand that the emperor is not wear a fine set of clothes. I may be too wrapped around the twisting molecules, polarized birefrengence and time constants within the LCD but I know enough that there are flaws everywhere.


I don't know Mike53 of Sharp, but I would like to. Is he with Mahwah or Camas? I spent 9 years at Camas, the OEM side of Sharp. All of this started when I stated that in a real world, one will never see the contrast numbers written in the specs. I have just been trying to get those interseted to buy the sets for the correct reasons. Buy the set that looks good to you, in the conditions you are going to see it in. Raw numbers are just not enough to tell the whole story. If plasmas have such a good contrast ratio (in numbers) why do they not look good in a bright room. This is the optics magic I am trying to help explain (if I am helping at all).


DB

 

[nameless33]



Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/0



Mike53 of Sharp USA explained that Sharp is using this processing before Sharp informed him he could no longer participate here just before CEDIA but he spent over a year sharing Sharp Innnovations and separating Fact/Fiction. One of the most reliable contributors we've ever had here.

Oh great. There goes half the reason to read this forum.

 

[jockss2]

buy now!