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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would greatly appreciate those of you with crystal balls and tolerance for highly subjective/speculative questions to weigh in on the following... or to tell me to stop analyzing and just buy already (maybe I just want this forum will give me the kick in the pants I need).


The question: should I buy a 65" Panasonic S1 (or more accurately, TC-65PS14 from Costco) right now, or does anyone suspect a "better deal" (price/performance) on 63-65" plasma to come along in next 3-6 months from either Panasonic (S2?) or Samsung (2010 replacement for PN63B550)?


Here's the deal:


- The chance for a $1999 65" plasma w/ free shipping from Costco.com seems too good to pass up. As far as I can tell from other threads there is no definitive answer on whether Costco TC-65PS14 is identical PQ as a "true S1". The TC-65PS14 spec says 30:000 native contrast vs. S1's 40:000, but there is good possibility that this is just marketing segmentation via spec sheet, and more importantly, I am NOT such a purist that I'd pay hundreds of dollars more for just a little "more black".


- I am paranoid about getting a bad set and having to pay hundreds out of my own pocket on return shipping. With Costco, if for some reason I don't like the set, or black levels increase overnight, etc., I can pack it up and haul it to my local Cosco (thankfully I have a minivan). The lowest cost S1 I found (from 6ave through Amazon) is not only several hundred$ more than Costco, but they also will not accept returns for any reason, nor will they wait around for me to hook up set to see if it even works (there answer is just to have a service call under warranty). For same reason I am paranoid about the possibility of getting a Samsung buzzer - packing up and shipping a 63" 130lb plasma is just too much stress not to mention a big expensive return shipping gamble.


- I want size (SIZE!) and "very good" PQ. I am not enough of a videophile to shell out much extra $$ for THX or photo/web viewers or 24fps cinematic playback or even "the best black" (so long as it's a good black...)


- I do not yet own a BlueRay (it's on my list). Is there strong chance that a slightly pickier-than-average Joe like me (I'm not blind, just cheap) would find the blueray 24fps @ whatever Hz to be so noticable it's worth $300-500 more dollars (i.e. wait for S2, or wait for V10 prices to drop)? FWIW I watch about 1-2 movies a week via Netflix, so I could spend a fair amount of time watching bluerays in the future. My wife could care less.


- (gasp) I do not yet even have HD service. Pathetic, I know. I have stuck with my standard def DirecTivos while dithering for years on the agonizing choice between Comcast/HDTivo/cablecard vs. DirecTV HD DVR vs. the elusive DirecTV Tivo HD DVR vs. the stuck-in-New England Comcast HD Tivo. I can wait no longer -- I will get HD in the next 3-6 months, one way or another. The leap from my current experience of standard def on 50" 8UK to HD on any 63-65" plasma will keep me happy for a long time.


- I might expect someone to say "wait for Panasonic S2's to ship" to put more downward price pressure on S1s, but will it likely ever get close to $1999 with free shipping (not to mention local returns)?


- I'm assuming S2's will cost hundreds more than at least Costco deal, if not also hundreds more than current prevailing S1 prices. But if someone said there was a "strong chance" that S2 would only be only a couple hundred more, and that quality on paper sounds SO much better (infinite black levels? like Spinal Tap's "none more black?"), and that this difference could very well be worth several hundred more dollars to even to an average Joe... well, that would give me one more excuse to dither and wait (at which point the Costo deal is sure to dissappear).


- FWIW, I am picky enough that I don't want LCD (no need to go into that here).


Aside from risk of losing the limited-time Comcast deal, I'm in no rush. If I buy the Costco set now I'll be hooking it up to SD for a few months -- I'm still giving DirecTV until June to announce a DirecTivo HD, so no HD at my house until summer anyway.


For those who read this far, thanks for your patience!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcwdad /forum/post/18157474


I would greatly appreciate those of you with crystal balls and tolerance for highly subjective/speculative questions to weigh in on the following... or to tell me to stop analyzing and just buy already (maybe I just want this forum will give me the kick in the pants I need).


The question: should I buy a 65" Panasonic S1 (or more accurately, TC-65PS14 from Costco) right now, or does anyone suspect a "better deal" (price/performance) on 63-65" plasma to come along in next 3-6 months from either Panasonic (S2?) or Samsung (2010 replacement for PN63B550)?


Here's the deal:


- The chance for a $1999 65" plasma w/ free shipping from Costco.com seems too good to pass up. As far as I can tell from other threads there is no definitive answer on whether Costco TC-65PS14 is identical PQ as a "true S1". The TC-65PS14 spec says 30:000 native contrast vs. S1's 40:000, but there is good possibility that this is just marketing segmentation via spec sheet, and more importantly, I am NOT such a purist that I'd pay hundreds of dollars more for just a little "more black".


- I am paranoid about getting a bad set and having to pay hundreds out of my own pocket on return shipping. With Costco, if for some reason I don't like the set, or black levels increase overnight, etc., I can pack it up and haul it to my local Cosco (thankfully I have a minivan). The lowest cost S1 I found (from 6ave through Amazon) is not only several hundred$ more than Costco, but they also will not accept returns for any reason, nor will they wait around for me to hook up set to see if it even works (there answer is just to have a service call under warranty). For same reason I am paranoid about the possibility of getting a Samsung buzzer - packing up and shipping a 63" 130lb plasma is just too much stress not to mention a big expensive return shipping gamble.


- I want size (SIZE!) and "very good" PQ. I am not enough of a videophile to shell out much extra $$ for THX or photo/web viewers or 24fps cinematic playback or even "the best black" (so long as it's a good black...)


- I do not yet own a BlueRay (it's on my list). Is there strong chance that a slightly pickier-than-average Joe like me (I'm not blind, just cheap) would find the blueray 24fps @ whatever Hz to be so noticable it's worth $300-500 more dollars (i.e. wait for S2, or wait for V10 prices to drop)? FWIW I watch about 1-2 movies a week via Netflix, so I could spend a fair amount of time watching bluerays in the future. My wife could care less.


- (gasp) I do not yet even have HD service. Pathetic, I know. I have stuck with my standard def DirecTivos while dithering for years on the agonizing choice between Comcast/HDTivo/cablecard vs. DirecTV HD DVR vs. the elusive DirecTV Tivo HD DVR vs. the stuck-in-New England Comcast HD Tivo. I can wait no longer -- I will get HD in the next 3-6 months, one way or another. The leap from my current experience of standard def on 50" 8UK to HD on any 63-65" plasma will keep me happy for a long time.


- I might expect someone to say "wait for Panasonic S2's to ship" to put more downward price pressure on S1s, but will it likely ever get close to $1999 with free shipping (not to mention local returns)?


- I'm assuming S2's will cost hundreds more than at least Costco deal, if not also hundreds more than current prevailing S1 prices. But if someone said there was a "strong chance" that S2 would only be only a couple hundred more, and that quality on paper sounds SO much better (infinite black levels? like Spinal Tap's "none more black?"), and that this difference could very well be worth several hundred more dollars to even to an average Joe... well, that would give me one more excuse to dither and wait (at which point the Costo deal is sure to dissappear).


- FWIW, I am picky enough that I don't want LCD (no need to go into that here).


Aside from risk of losing the limited-time Comcast deal, I'm in no rish. If I buy the Costco set now I'll be hooking it up to SD for a few months -- I'm still giving DirecTV until June to announce a DirecTivo HD, so no HD at my house until summer anyway.


For those who read this far, thanks for your patience!

Wow. It surely sounded like reading a story book.


Anyways, to the point, someone in this posted had earlier mentioned that the S14 models were not NeoPDP. And, in fact I think the specs on the costco site are silent on that. NeoPDP are said to consume lesser electricity.


But, even if that were the case, I think the current costco is a steal. There is no need to wait. The differences in PQ between S1 and S14 would be very minor. Go for it. If you didn't like it , you have 3 months to return it.
 

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dont make me prove this, but i thought i read on panny's web site a $200 difference between the s1 and the s14 (65") models


that tells me there is a difference between the two, but what that is i cant say
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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S14 models only has 900 lines of moving motions. Its not fully 1080 lines. I don't know how much of a difference would that make.

Thanks bkun. Indeed, now seeing on Panny's own site that S14 has "900 lines or more" of "moving picture resolution". And that's not all.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...702#tabsection


I printed out specs for both units site by side, the sum total of all differences I can see:


- S1 specifies NeoPDP, S14 does not

- S1 1800 lines of moving picture resolution vs. S14's 900

- S1 40K1:1 contrast vs. S14's 30K:1

- S1 6,144 equivalent shades of gradation vs. S14's 5,120

- S1 has "H-fill" aspect control, S14 "H-fill for TV/AV modes 4:3, Full for PC mode"

- S1 has game mode

- S1 has "3D color management", S14 does not

- S1 does not have PC or PC audio inputs, S14 does (15 pin mini D-sub, 3.5mm stereo)


Strangely enough, if you download both S1 and S14 series datasheets as PDFs you'll see that the S1 includes the 65" TC-P65S1 (on front and in feature table) while the S14 has no mention of the 65" TC-P65S14 at all.


Capitol, re pricing Panny website shows 65" S14 list at $2,895 and 65" S1 at $3,195. FWIW, Panny is offering $500 instant rebate on S1 (presumably if you buy directly from their website, which you can't b/c it's backordered) whereas for S14 it says "not available directly from Panasonic".


Of all this, the only things that are concerning about S14 are the lack of NeoPDP, 900 vs. 1800 moving lines, and 25% less contrast. I'm starting to get the idea I might actually appreciate this difference. Anyone have a thought on how noticable this would be?
 

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kcwdad,


We are in exactly the same boat. I was ready to pull the trigger on the 65S1 during the superbowl sales, but hesitated on the black level fiasco. Now that I've read that larger S1 sets don't seem to be affected as severely, I feel slightly more at ease.


What I've been kind of hazy about is hearing some say that the S1 and S2 are essentially identical, but yet the S2 is advertised with a much higher contrast ratio (2,000,000:1) with reduced power consumption. My understanding of the reduced power consumption is that it's a result of an adjustment of the firing mechanisms on each phosphor "cell" - which I think would imply that the S2 is indeed a different panel and not a tweaked S1.


Another factor is that in the past, the 58 and 65" class were introduced much later. So if it's the case the 65" S2 isn't going to be ready until July/August, I'm tempted to go for the S1 now at these bargain prices.


I've also pondered just biting the bullet on the 65S1, and if need be, sell it when the 65VT25s are clearing out a year or so from now to let all the dust settle on the 3D introduction.


But in your case, I would wait to buy until you have HD service. 65" of SD will look like crap and you'll need to be using zoom or stretch modes to prevent IR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks all. I've decided not to gamble on S14 PQ and wait for summer where I could likely get an S1 at good price or pick up an S2 if it proves to be a winner on blacks and power consumption (who knows, power might pay for itself in a few years).
 

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well I'm doing the exact opposite (not that it matters much to you). I'm in a similar situation, in that I don't need anything right now, but I think the price on the S14 is difficult to pass up. I currently have a 50pz800u so I hope I'll be able to notice a difference right away if there is one. If I'm not happy, I'm boxing it up and bringing it right back. Otherwise, I think I may have found a new TV.
 

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This is hilarious. A few posts on a forum is a "black level fiasco". LOL
 

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I have the 54 S14 and have looked at both S1/S14 ALOT because i was going to return the S14 for S1 but the PQ looks the same, both being alittle soft to me...The spec sheets also show both using the same power...I have no idea how they were able to do that!


I have decided just to keep the S14 untill the new 58 Sammy comes out since my S14 has no dead pixels and nothing wrong with it.
 
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