Buying a house, looking for a good projector

At this price range there are no projectors with good blacks, except for refurbished Sony 45ES, or an Epson 5040UB, which are about about $1100.

With any projector, especially those with good blacks, the light reflected off the walls would wash out the dark detail. To mitigate these reflections, besides no lights, the walls would have to be covered in at least a dark colored paint, or fabric.
A great explanation and demonstration here:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiondream/videos/1692721894385217/
https://projectiondream.com/en/contrast-projector-environment/

If the room can't be helped and/or will be used with lights on, a grey or ALR screen is necessary. Even with these screens, a projector with good black levels will be affected in a significant way.
More information here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/3064376-do-i-need-alr-grey-screen.html

As far as projectors go, the Optoma UHD51A is ok. Keep in mind that some people are sensible to rainbow effect/RBE from projectors with color wheels.
Other options would be LCD projectors (no RBE), such as the Epson you mentioned, or a refurbished 3100/3700. These last two are very bright, and if you have a grey screen you'll be happy with the extra lumens.

The Benq HT3550 is a great unit, has HDR, 4K, ~40-50ms lag, 120Hz at 1080p.

For 1080p the Benq HT2050a with 16ms lag is highly recommended, or a refurbished Viewsonic (40ms lag):https://www.viewsonic.com/us/pro7827hd-s.html

It is very difficult to explain to a first time projector owner exactly what to expect from a projector. As others have mentioned in a light colored room black level and contrast, your top two priority's , will be compromised. As to what extent only you can decide. I always recommend for newbies to get something entry level and experiment on a wall or temporary screen to find what you are willing to compromise or fix to get PQ up to your expectations. The BenQ 2050a checks all your boxes except 4K for half your budget and is one of the best projectors for the money although it is considered entry level. If your sure you won't be treating the room and want 4K any of these XPR DLP's might workout for you as they all have their pro's and cons. If contrast and blacks are a priority and you do decide to treat the room a high contrast projector is your best bet like a Sony 45es for 1080p, Epson 5000 series for 1/2 4K, JVC for ultimate contrast and native 4K, Sony 4K. All those projectors are out of your budget except the first one new but refurbed or used they are attainable.

Edit: One other monkey wrench to throw in the works is if movies are a priority a 2:39 screen might be more desirable and in my opinion power lens memory is a must limiting you to only Epson 4000/5000 series projectors in your price range.

SabresfortheCup said:

One thing that I’m noticing is, I keep seeing these videos of ultra short throw projectors and ALR screens showing what seem to be a fairly bright & vibrant picture even in a well lit room. In a dark room, will an ultra short throw projector and ALR screen out perform a more traditional projector? Or do they have plenty of brightness but poor black level & contrast? Will a grey screen noticeably boost contrast or black level, perhaps at the expense of brightness? Are there any ultra short throw projectors that are low latency, 3D enabled, or both?

I haven’t seemed to be able to find much on ultra short throw projectors, I assume they’re a bit more pricey than traditional ones, and I know the screens are expensive.

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An UST projector plus an grey screen will not give any improvements over a regular throw projector with a grey screen.

An UST projector plus an UST ALR screen is unnecessarily expensive. The same effect can be achieved with a regular throw projector and regular ALR screen.
While UST ALR types of screen have a different angle at which it reflects light, it's still a screen and when viewing with lights on will have it's image washed out if the lights are not placed adequately. The most affected parts with be the dark parts of the image. How much depends on how much light is bouncing around the room.
It doesn't matter with what type of screen.

Depending on the projector, it's light output, distance from screen, image projected, material of the screen, ALR fabrics can have visual artifacts, such as hotspots, sparkle, narrow viewing angles. More expensive screens tend to have less artifacts.

The decision to go with an ALR screen depends on how much time will be spent with lights on, and the intensity of the lights. But, seeing that 3 out of the 4 modes of use in your first post are movies, I assume lights off viewing, the need for an ALR screen would be reduced. Personally I would not use an ALR screen for movie/TV watching with lights on, unless you have people over and/or it's a very bright broadcast, like a football game or a talk show in a brightly lit studio.

There is a link in a post above discussing the need for an ALR screen.

Thanks for clarifying! That’s more or less what I suspected, but I wasn’t sure just how effective the ALR screens are at controlling black levels & contrast. I also haven’t seen many ALR screens that weren’t designed specifically for UST projectors. I was also imagining that an ALR screen might improve black levels & contrast just from the reflected light from the screen to the ceiling & whatnot, but perhaps it’s not as drastic an effect as I would’ve thought.

Another thought occurred to me... with my plasma, I use bias lighting on the back to improve apparent black levels and reduce eye strain, as a light source behind the screen, and I was anticipating doing the same with a projector screen. However, with the detrimental effects of reflected light on the screen, which seems somewhat counter to the idea of bias lighting improving apparent contrast/black level, is bias lighting around/behind the screen actually a bad idea for a projector screen? Is eye strain less of an issue with a projector than it is with a tv?

ALR screens will boost contrast and brightness (if the gain is over 1.0) in the dark. They can handle the reflections from white or colored walls, but if a light is turned on, it will probably have a negative impact.

A projector with good black levels (Sony 45ES or Epson 5040UB in you price range, both refurbised) will benefit more from a room without reflections and a white screen than a untreated room and an ALR screen.
An ALR screen in a treated room does not make sense since there are no (or significant) reflections. What could help here is a light grey screen, but in dark rooms it's usually recommended to go with a white screen.

A projector with not so good black levels (most projectors(new) under $2500) may be on par in a dark room + white screen versus living room + ALR. What would make the difference here is the quality of the ALR screen. Of course, a good ALR screen can cost several times your projector budget, whereas a decent white/grey screen can cost well under $500.

Some examples:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/2963368-my-review-dea-pulsar-screen-wow.html#post55847894
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/3005728-xyscreen-comparison-review.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...e-cinema-projector-review-3.html#post57673262

There is the option to buy the fabric (under $200) and make your own frame for less than the cost of an already built screen. The fabrics also come in large sizes, usually 135" (or higher) 16:9. This is applicable for ALR fabrics as well, but as being some of the cheapest types there are ALR type artifacts.

Most ALR fabrics are for forward projection, not UST.

Don't have bias lightning, but the reflections will probably have a negative impact on the image. To get a better contrast a black border is usually used. As for eye strain you'll have to see for yourself. Maybe check a store where they have projectors displayed.

SabresfortheCup said:

Hi all! So I’m buying a house with a partially finished basement 28’ x 24’, which I plan on making a home theater 24’ x 14’. I figure I’ll be looking at ~10-15’ seating distance, so I’ll need something bigger than my 50” 1080p Panasonic P50GT50 plasma. I’m thinking 120” projector screen! Light won’t be an issue, but I’m trying to find the best picture for $1500 or less. Never used a projector before. Considering the Optoma UHD51A, but latency will be an issue 😕. Thinking of using an EliteScreen CineWhite screen?

I’m looking to primarily use it for HD movies and gaming, but I’d also like 3D capability. I don’t do much in 4K yet, but on a 120” screen I’m thinking 4K would be worth having... and I’d love to game in 4K. I also would place picture quality high on the priority list... if I could just get a 120” OLED or plasma, that’d be perfect 😂 but I know projectors can’t compete with those technologies. I’m wondering if a pure 1080p projector would have better picture quality than 4K for a similar price? I’ve also thought about getting a cheaper low latency projector for now/for gaming, and a better one for movies down the road? I’ve read the Epson HC2040 is low latency and great 3D picture, for example. Thoughts?

I’d say my priorities are as follows:
1) Contrast
2) Black level
3) Color accuracy & depth
4) Sharpness
5) 3D compatible & 3D Picture Quality
6) Brightness
7) Latency
8) 4K

Primary uses:
1) HD movies
2) Gaming (Xbox One X)
3) 3D movies
4) 4K movies

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Your two top priorities are two of the worst things about owning a DLP projector. Having used and still owning a Sony HW45 I think for your budget it would be perfect. And they throw an amazing 1080p image.

As to show a comparison. Here is what a $375 factory refurbished 1080p RGBRGB DLP Dark Chip 3 projector looks like with OTA TV and a DIY gray painted screen wall $20 paint on smooth drywall. Image size is 110”, picture taken with a cell phone.

I like the cheap RGBRGB DLPs in the 1080p variety with the larger DMD chip as a first projector IMO you can’t get more bang for the buck.

With regards to black levels: Yeah, I get that 😅. I think coming from a plasma and years of CNET reviews have conditioned me towards believing that, when it comes to picture quality, black level & shadow detail is the most important factor, followed by color accuracy. I know that a projector can’t ever hope to match plasma or OLED technologies in that regard, so I guess I’m looking for the best picture I can get in a similar price range. If it’s 70% as good, with a bigger picture, I’m imagining the trade off may be worth it.

I also do have a small collection of 3D movies that I’d enjoy being able to watch on occasion, even if it’s much less frequent than my 2D movie watching, and projectors are the only option for 3D anymore. They’re also a better way to watch 3D anyways.

I’m less interested in 4K, but I figure the added resolution on a large screen would be a “nice to have” feature.

I’ll have to take a look at the Sony projector you suggested. The RBE on a DLP does have me a little nervous, and I’ve heard their black levels suffer slightly. Though YouTube videos I’ve seen of the Optoma still seem impressive to me.

DunMunro said:

They are good value but IMHO it's better to get a 1080p projector that has HDR support, such as the HD27HDR:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD27HDR-Review.htm

but having said that, I would still recommend something like the UHD50 along with a ~150in painted screen. We've been watching 4K streaming content via my Sony X700 4K BD player and HDR takes everything to the next level.

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I don’t disagree there is always a next level. I just wanted to set a benchmark for what might be the low end of the 1080p level today as someone showed an upper end 1080p model. Of course the jump to 4k is the next level and everyone’s expectation is different as to how much that level really entails. The OP was thinking 10-15’ seating and a 120” screen and that is reasonable for a nice FP setup. The OP also mentioned he wasn’t too involved with 4k media/HDR yet. The upscale to 4k of what he’s watching I’m sure will show some improvement though. Eventually all of us will getting 4k for everything, but a lot of us are still not there bandwidth or with disc media yet.

A nice bright 1080p FP image can still be very satisfying for most of my guests and all of them routinely watch their 4k TVs at home.

As to the HD27HDR I haven’t seen one in operation but I have owned other RGBCYW projectors and understand the pros and cons of the two color wheels pretty well. I always said it seems like they should be able to nurse a wider gamut out of the CYW segments but the measured data never supports improved color accuracy in the brighter modes and the review you listed shows what most other RGBCYW show where a 3000 lumen projector in film mode delivers around 1000. So I just don’t know.

bud16415 said:

I don’t disagree there is always a next level. I just wanted to set a benchmark for what might be the low end of the 1080p level today as someone showed an upper end 1080p model. Of course the jump to 4k is the next level and everyone’s expectation is different as to how much that level really entails. The OP was thinking 10-15’ seating and a 120” screen and that is reasonable for a nice FP setup. The OP also mentioned he wasn’t too involved with 4k media/HDR yet. The upscale to 4k of what he’s watching I’m sure will show some improvement though. Eventually all of us will getting 4k for everything, but a lot of us are still not there bandwidth or with disc media yet.

A nice bright 1080p FP image can still be very satisfying for most of my guests and all of them routinely watch their 4k TVs at home.

As to the HD27HDR I haven’t seen one in operation but I have owned other RGBCYW projectors and understand the pros and cons of the two color wheels pretty well. I always said it seems like they should be able to nurse a wider gamut out of the CYW segments but the measured data never supports improved color accuracy in the brighter modes and the review you listed shows what most other RGBCYW show where a 3000 lumen projector in film mode delivers around 1000. So I just don’t know.

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Here's another review of the HD27HDR (AKA HD29H in the EU):

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/01/03/2019/test-optoma-hd29h-lavis-de-gregory/

And it shows good colour accuracy and wider than REC709 gamut. For gaming, with a 120hz input it has only 8ms lag. HDR mode brightness is higher than cinema mode on Optoma HDR projectors.

I always mention the Sony UBP-X700 because it is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get into 4K and it really performs:

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-4k-blu-ray-player/

Just replace your existing BD player with the above and you're 4K ready, especially as it has a large number of 4K streaming apps (in the USA) and it does a fantastic job of upscaling HD streaming content to 4K. It will simulate HDR on non-HDR projectors.

I really enjoy watching DVDs that have been upscaled to 4K via the X700; I just picked up a bargain bin 4 movie DVD that included Earthquake and Airport both from the early 1970s and they're really fun to watch on a ~145in screen! In my first post in this thread I linked to some comparisons of DVD to 4K Vs 4K BD from the X700, but the thing to note is how clean the DVD to 4K output from the X700 is.

DunMunro said:

Here's another review of the HD27HDR (AKA HD29H in the EU):

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/01/03/2019/test-optoma-hd29h-lavis-de-gregory/

And it shows good colour accuracy and wider than REC709 gamut. For gaming, with a 120hz input it has only 8ms lag. HDR mode brightness is higher than cinema mode on Optoma HDR projectors.

I always mention the Sony UBP-X700 because it is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get into 4K and it really performs:

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-4k-blu-ray-player/

Just replace your existing BD player with the above and you're 4K ready, especially as it has a large number of 4K streaming apps (in the USA) and it does a fantastic job of upscaling HD streaming content to 4K. It will simulate HDR on non-HDR projectors.

I really enjoy watching DVDs that have been upscaled to 4K via the X700; I just picked up a bargain bin 4 movie DVD that included Earthquake and Airport both from the early 1970s and they're really fun to watch on a ~145in screen! In my first post in this thread I linked to some comparisons of DVD to 4K Vs 4K BD from the X700, but the thing to note is how clean the DVD to 4K output from the X700 is.

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Like you I still upscale and watch DVD. I have over 3000 in the collection due mostly to the fact I had a friend in the rental business and for about 10 years he would sell me the overflow new releases when demand dropped for the low price of 10 for 10. I rarely buy anything other than BD over the last few years. We rent new releases from the corner Red-Box machine and they give me a free DVD rental all the time even though we always rent BD, so we watch them. I have the older Sony player in the family of the one you like. My next buy will likely be the one you mentioned as ours is getting a little old and it is our main streaming hub. Improvements there will be nice I’m hoping.

When I went from a RGBCYW 720p viewsonic DC2 to the 1080p viewsonic DC3 it was a nice upgrade. The RGBCYW had a slight edge in yellows in movie mode but the DC3 rocked with blacks. I felt the upscale to 720 was a smidgen better than going to 1080. I’m glad to hear you say this 4k conversion is so good. What they can do with scaling is so amazing to me. It doesn’t get talked about enough.

I really am hoping to hold out with 1080 and make the jump to 4k in a couple years. I’m a confirmed late adopter for the last 25 years. Not always though there was a time I paid 800 buck for a VHS tape deck first around town. If I didn’t have the Viewsonic I would give the Optoma a go for that price.

noob00224 said:

Blacks on 1080p DLP's are similar to IPS pannels, with that IPS glow. The Optoma's fall under this category.
It is possible to have blacks and color accuracy similar to OLED with projectors, JVC being the number one choice. The are priced higher though, even second hand, the cheapest (unless it's a 10 year old unit) starts at around $3k.

If you want to have the best blacks in this price range, the refurbished Sony 45ES or the Epson 5040UB are just over $1k. The Sony new is just under $2k and it's 1080p.
The Epson is brighter and if you get a grey screen those extra lumens will be helpful in increasing the brightness. It also has 4K (1080p x2 pixel shift), larger color gamut, cheaper lamps.
If 1080p DLP's are like IPS, these are like TN pannels. Somewhere in between Oled and IPS.
No ALR screens for either of these 2. Treated room of course.
There is thread with discussion about the Epson refurbished units: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/199-...9050-refurbished-epson-5040ub-1-151-00-a.html

LE: @DunMunro I previously owned an Optoma HD27, with a RGBCYW color wheel. Switching to an RGBRGB color wheel projector made a significant improvement. The review claims a REC.709 coverage of 101% after calibration, but before it was not that good . HDR to SDR mapping is a complex and subjective topic. 120Hz is nice for PC, but how many Xbox titles support 120Hz? The lag is low. Are these features worth $200 vs the viewsonic?

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IMHO, having a large screen and and some theatre optimizations will result in a lower cost 4K DLP projector giving a better overall experience than a smaller screen and something else.


HDR compatibility in a projector is definitely is worth a premium as it substantially improves performance when fed an HDR source and HDR content - this is my experience and most reviews come to the same conclusion. I mentioned that the X700 has the capability to emulate HDR on an SDR projector and it seems to work OK, but doubtless there are superior options, such as the Panasonic UB820 but it is ~3X the cost. X700 HDR to HDR ready projector seems to be very good.

Precalibration the HD27HDR reached 101.2% of REC709 and post it was 103.4%

The OPs budget was $1500 and he has a large light controlled theatre space:

UHD50 + UBP-X700 + ceiling mount = ~$1300 (-$200 for a refurbed UHD50)
Paint the projection wall = ~$50 (result = ~150in screen)
Curtain rods and black drapes = ~$150

So for $1500 he and his family will have an incredible theatre that can easily to upgraded over time and retains a lot of versatility.