Buying a TV specifically for Wii and past-gen

2683 Views 28 Replies 18 Participants Last post by MathewM, Sep 10, 2007

RyokoYaksa

Discussion Starter · May 17, 2007

In my travels playing various fighting tournaments with rhythm games as sidetracks, I've frequently come across the infamous "HDTV lag" which plagues every fighting/rhythm game fan. Several HDTVs I've come across noticeably lag even with component cables running 480p.

This includes the Toshiba 62HM196 (a DLP, 1080p native) which our family has owned for a little over a year old. With 480i the lag is so bad the sound is noticeably desynched. In 480p the response time is improved but I still notice lag.

To better serve myself and the tournaments I attend, I'm looking to buy TV that can natively display both 480i and 480p, as the only consoles I play where this is an issue use those signals. Namely the Wii, and anything past-gen. Widescreen will be most appreciated

Has anyone had experience, or know of a model #, that has this criteria?

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Libertarian

· #2 · May 17, 2007

If you want 480P only, you will get the best picture from a CRT TV. They are big and bulky, but beautiful (and relatively cheap). I believe the biggest you can find these is around 34-36 inches. I have a 30 inch Samsung and love it.

Just make sure you get one advertised as EDTV (Enhanced Definition, or 480P).

wildfire99

· #3 · May 17, 2007

Or a Samsung HDTV with game mode, or an outboard scaler with game mode, or running past-gen on an emulator on PC.

RyokoYaksa

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 17, 2007

To avoid future confusion:

1. I don't really need a 2nd HDTV. The one already present in my home serves its HD purposes well, but just can't accurately handle 480i/480p.

2. I intend to travel with this TV and take it to tournaments which only feature 480i/480p games because I'm sick of the flood of laggy HDTVs. This works against the purchase of anything large or expensive, or the use of an outboard scaler since different HDTVs don't handle 480p the same way. If 480p still lags then the use of an external scaler is for naught.

I know Samsung makes a line of CRT HDTVs that do 480p natively, but need to upconvert 480i to 480p, which throws them out of possibility.

I currently have my Wii, Gamecube, and PS2 hooked up to an old, modest SDTV that's been with us for 10 years. I'm somewhat spoiled with visuals now, and would like to bump this up to EDTV and widescreen. At the same time, not all the games on them support 480p, so the TV in question must run 480i natively also.

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wildfire99

· #5 · May 17, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyokoYaksa /forum/post/0

2. I intend to travel with this TV and take it to tournaments which only feature 480i/480p games because I'm sick of the flood of laggy HDTVs. This works against the purchase of anything large or expensive, or the use of an outboard scaler since different HDTVs don't handle 480p the same way. If 480p still lags then the use of an external scaler is for naught.

I don't get it. The scaler sets the output resolution to whatever the native spec of the HDTV you have is, thus it can just display it and not lag processing it (unless the TV itself is brain-dead). Check the DVDO VP50 thread in the scaler forum, since I recall some people were asking about doing just this (low-lag scaling 320x200 games and more) with that box.

The VP30 might be a less expensive alternative also for only upscaling SD sources.

RyokoYaksa

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 17, 2007

Oh, my mistake there - I thought you were referring to the XBR2/3 thing. A device which didn't quite cut it for me in the past. >

ShawnPeters

· #7 · May 17, 2007

Looks like EDTV plasma is your best option. My only recommendation would be to bring your Wii to store and try what they have.

Zappdap

· #8 · May 18, 2007

Yeah Go with a 32 inch CRT with Progressive Scan. I have a 32 inch Progressive scan Panasonic. I just put the Wii down stairs on it and I'll keep my PS3 on the Projector.

Looks pretty good on reg. composite.

bookerg

· #9 · May 18, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyokoYaksa /forum/post/0

I'm somewhat spoiled with visuals now, and would like to bump this up to EDTV and widescreen.

Correct me if I'm wrong....

But I thought that 'EDTV' (forgetting the progressive element for a minute) on a CRT was still 720x480, and is just "stretched" horizontally by the 16:9 screen?

I understand (although I could be wrong) that 'EDTV' on a HDTV runs at 853x480.... although I'm not sure if this is upscaled by the TV itself, or the Wii natively outputting that resolution.

Someone correct me on that, cos I'm not actually sure about it myself

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DanLW

· #10 · May 18, 2007

How much light is in these tournament environments? For portability, how about an InFocus 4805 (front projector)? When projected onto a small screen in the 30-40" range, the image should be plenty bright enough unless you are in direct sunlight. And you can't beat the portability.

The 4805 is a native 480p projector with a panel resolution of 854x480.

bkchurch

· #11 · May 20, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW /forum/post/0

How much light is in these tournament environments? For portability, how about an InFocus 4805 (front projector)? When projected onto a small screen in the 30-40" range, the image should be plenty bright enough unless you are in direct sunlight. And you can't beat the portability.

The 4805 is a native 480p projector with a panel resolution of 854x480.

Or he could get it's slightly older brother the InFocus In72, it's another 480p projector and costs a tad bit more but looks a little better as well. Aside from that the only portable options I can think of would be an ED plasma but I have no idea where you'd find a name brand one anymore.

tokerblue

· #12 · May 20, 2007

Don't EDTV plasma have PC resolutions? So it would still have to scale a 480i or 480p signal to whatever it's native resolution is.

RassilonZero

· #13 · May 20, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire99 /forum/post/0

Or a Samsung HDTV with game mode, or an outboard scaler with game mode, or running past-gen on an emulator on PC.

"Game mode" on the samsung DLPs looks so bad its unplayable (colors are terrible, screen jitters like mad, blurry, etc).

And emulation is NOT an acceptable alternative to the real thing. Even the latest emulators on the latest PC are nowhere near "perfect".

But Wii via component on my sony LCD RPTV looks great. no complaints here.

I am thinking about looking for something for my older games though (neo-geo, genesis, turbo-duo, etc)... it looks like an EDTV plasma is probably the best choice, though its more expensive than i'd like to spend on a secondary TV only for older games..

Libertarian

· #14 · May 21, 2007

For a secondary TV...just go out and pick up any cheap CRT EDTV. If you want to play games in 480p, there's no need to break the bank on a fancy plasma screen. Just plop that big CRT down in the corner of your room and use the money you saved to buy more games.

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Trebuken

· #15 · May 23, 2007

The CRT idea is great, but if your traveling I'd think it wouldn't make sense since these 32" CRT HDTV's are absurdly heavy and awkward to carry...

Sorry to hear about the Toshiba, I have a 72MX195 and have never noticed any lag, but haven't used it much for 480i/480p sources...my Wii has no issues though...

GreenMonkey

· #16 · May 25, 2007

As far as I know much more of the lag is from deinterlacing than from scaling. A 480p set would still exhibit lag as it deinterlaces. Your only solution if you are a hardcore fighting gamer is a 480i standard TV.

Or the DVDO scaler. It is supposed to be pretty close to zero lag.

dagware

· #17 · May 30, 2007

Pardon my naiveté, but I'm having a hard time understanding how you could get enough lag to cause any issues. Please understand that I'm not doubting you -- it just doesn't make sense to me (sometimes I'm not very bright).

It seems to me that the most lag you could experience is no more than a 30th of a second -- how could this affect your game play? Again, I don't doubt you at all, I just don't get it. Can you explain what it's like?

Thanks.

-Dan

RyokoYaksa

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 1, 2007

Fighting and rhythm games in particular are very timing sensitive, even down the the single frame. It only takes 1 frame to dictate whether or not an attack that turns the match will connect, or if you AA that song on DDR. Any kind of lag that exceeds 1/60th of a second can adversely affect your hand-eye coordination if your reflexes are very sensitive. 2/30ths is immediately detectable to me just from browsing menus, and I can feel it when I play, as well.

dagware

· #19 · Jun 1, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyokoYaksa /forum/post/0

Fighting and rhythm games in particular are very timing sensitive, even down the the single frame. It only takes 1 frame to dictate whether or not an attack that turns the match will connect, or if you AA that song on DDR. Any kind of lag that exceeds 1/60th of a second can adversely affect your hand-eye coordination if your reflexes are very sensitive. 2/30ths is immediately detectable to me just from browsing menus, and I can feel it when I play, as well.

Well, I guess you learn something every day. This must be why I suck at fighting games.

-Dan

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Cynn

· #20 · Jun 3, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyokoYaksa /forum/post/0

Fighting and rhythm games in particular are very timing sensitive, even down the the single frame. It only takes 1 frame to dictate whether or not an attack that turns the match will connect, or if you AA that song on DDR. Any kind of lag that exceeds 1/60th of a second can adversely affect your hand-eye coordination if your reflexes are very sensitive. 2/30ths is immediately detectable to me just from browsing menus, and I can feel it when I play, as well.

I understand where you are coming from. I used to be a rounder Third Strike and Mark of the Wolves player. The problem you have is that only CRT and Plasma will resolve fast enough. Plasma is NOT portable. CRT especially in widescreen isn't very travel worthy either. Most widescreen CRTs are 1080i.

It's just not a good idea to bring displays to tournaments in the first place. House rules in my area are always house display use only.

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