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Cable companies fighting against HD

1424 Views 19 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  QZ1
From MultiChannel News:

NCTA Fighting for Digital Downconversion

By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 10/13/2004 5:48:00 PM


The cable industry’s leading trade group is advocating a federal policy that would give cable operators the option to convert digital-broadcast signals to analog at cable systems’ headends.


The Federal Communications Commission is considering a digital-television-transition plan with many moving parts, and it’s unclear whether authority to downconvert digital signals will ultimately reside with TV stations or cable operators.


“Assigning to cable operators the choice either to carry the digital signal of the broadcaster or to convert the digital signal to analog best correlates with subscriber welfare, while preserving the carriage rights of broadcasters,†the National Cable & Telecommunications Association said in an Oct. 8 FCC filing.


The FCC plan, now at the staff level, would transfer a TV station’s mandatory cable-carriage rights from the analog to the digital signal no later than Jan. 1, 2009. The cable company would be required to make digital-TV signals available to all subscribers by passing them through unchanged or downconverting them to analog.


After TV stations have surrendered their analog licenses, the FCC plan calls for giving broadcasters the option of cable carriage in digital or analog, according to testimony given in June to a House subcommittee by the plan’s author, Media Bureau chief Kenneth Ferree.


The NCTA wants the format-selection authority granted to cable operators until a substantial majority of consumers have digital-reception equipment, because if a TV station insisted on digital carriage, its signal would be unviewable on analog-TV sets in the homes of millions of cable subscribers.


Consumers would need to buy digital-TV sets or lease cable set-top boxes to view passed-through digital-broadcast signals. The FCC plan would not require cable operators to provide the equipment to make digital-TV signals viewable on analog sets, according to Ferree’s testimony.


“We expressed our concerns about the potential disruption to tens of millions of cable customers once analog spectrum is returned if the FCC does not give cable systems the right to convert digital-broadcast signals to analog at the cable-system headend until digital penetration reaches 85%,†the NCTA said.


The trade group’s position was summarized in a two-page memo of an Oct. 7 meeting held between several NCTA officials, including president Robert Sachs, and Ferree and members of his staff.


The National Association of Broadcasters has told the FCC that in addition to being bad policy, downconversion at the headend would violate the federal bar on the material degradation of local-broadcast signals by cable operators.


“We think it would violate the statute for cable operators to degrade free signals offered by local broadcasters,†NAB spokesman Dennis Wharton said.


In the meeting, NCTA officials also reiterated their opposition to a Ferree-backed proposal that would, after the transition, require cable carriage of every free programming service a digital-TV station can pack into its digital bit stream.


Today, that’s about five or six channels. The NCTA said the FCC should authorize carriage of just one programming service, consistent with the agency’s ruling in January 2001.
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In fairness, I think the following is the best overall compromise.


1) Allow local stations to pick *one* digital "sub-channel" to qualify for "must carry." Additional subs must go through negotiation.


2) Cable companies should be allowed and indeed encouraged to "downconvert" a HD sub-channel to an analog cable channel, but only if they also carry the full bandwidth/resolution digital signal or the station waives the digital carry*.


* For instance: It may not gain anything useful to pass a 480i digital signal as a "digital" signal (If that makes any sense ;) )


IOW, no free lunches for either side
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Quote:
Originally posted by fredfa
From MultiChannel News:


NCTA Fighting for Digital Downconversion

By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 10/13/2004 5:48:00 PM


(snip)


The NCTA wants the format-selection authority granted to cable operators until a substantial majority of consumers have digital-reception equipment, because if a TV station insisted on digital carriage, its signal would be unviewable on analog-TV sets in the homes of millions of cable subscribers.


Consumers would need to buy digital-TV sets or lease cable set-top boxes to view passed-through digital-broadcast signals. The FCC plan would not require cable operators to provide the equipment to make digital-TV signals viewable on analog sets, according to Ferree’s testimony.


(snip)

All that is needed is a cable box that passes through the digital signal using one of the (gasp) analog outputs. It is not rocket science. And what of the Pace digital to analog adaptor?


I vote no to digital down conversion !!!
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There are a lot of non-HD, 480i digital channels out there... the issue here is not just HD but much broader than that.


An interesting side note: Rogers cable in Ontario (which I subscribe to) does the opposite. All of its analog channels (i.e., 2 through 77 on the dial) are offered simultaneously in digital format on channels 802 through 877 respectively. They have digital-only channels all over the place between the mid-100's all the way up into the 600's, as well as video-on-demand and a gazillion pay-per-view stations. The HD channels are located at channels 277 through 296.
Let me get this straight cable companies that tout digital channels want to take those same digital channels and turn them into analog channels? What sense does that make?


Also cable companies should give everyone a digital box, as I read in USAtoday a while ago, customers with digital boxes spend more money on cable than those without, so why the opposition.


Third cable companies wanted to go all digital so they can use the bandwidth more efficiently as opposed to uncompressed analog channels.


Am I missing something, this makes no sense for cable to oppose this to me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ross in Toronto
An interesting side note: Rogers cable in Ontario (which I subscribe to) does the opposite. All of its analog channels (i.e., 2 through 77 on the dial) are offered simultaneously in digital format on channels 802 through 877 respectively. They have digital-only channels all over the place between the mid-100's all the way up into the 600's, as well as video-on-demand and a gazillion pay-per-view stations. The HD channels are located at channels 277 through 296.
How many total digital channels do you have? And what size bandwidth does your Rogers system have (750 Mhz, 860 Mhz, 1 Ghz)? Just curious for comparison purposes.
Quote:
Originally posted by jsb_hburg
All that is needed is a cable box that passes through the digital signal using one of the (gasp) analog outputs.
Not quite that simple ... there are many "base tier/lifeline" customers that might object to having to "rent" a digital box ...
Quote:
Originally posted by jsb_hburg
All that is needed is a cable box that passes through the digital signal using one of the (gasp) analog outputs. It is not rocket science. And what of the Pace digital to analog adaptor?
No it isn't rocket science, but it is illegal. The rules are currently written that if a cable subscriber DOES NOT WANT a STB for basic local cable, the cableco MUST provide basic cable WITHOUT a STB. This would mean downconvert a 1080i or 720p signal to 480i NTSC for those who do not want an STB. It means that the cableco would have to provide TWO signals of the same signal, one for NTSC and one that has NOT been down rezed for the digital folks.


Here is the REAL reason cable wants to have the say, to get this rule changed and to force subscribers into STB's for a rental charge as well as to wet you appetite for VOD and interactive and anything else they can throw at you to spend money. Cable realizes they are loosing money because they can't put these other services in front of these non STB subs. That is why cable is working so hard to either get to you to get a digital/HD box for your cable ready digital TV (why would you if you have one?) or get the two way cable ready TVs going. They loose money by not being able to entice you with their other services. There is more going on here than meets the eyes and it isn't all related to the mean ole` broadcasters.
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o it isn't rocket science, but it is illegal. The rules are currently written that if a cable subscriber DOES NOT WANT a STB for basic local cable, the cableco MUST provide basic cable WITHOUT a STB. This would mean downconvert a 1080i or 720p signal to 480i NTSC for those who do not want an STB. It means that the cableco would have to provide TWO signals of the same signal, one for NTSC and one that has NOT been down rezed for the digital folks.
This may be the main sticking point so maybe the rule should be changed to allow the cable company to provide limited basic customers with minimal (PACE type) digital converter boxes at some minimal charge. I'm not sure this can all be solved as long as it is uncertain whether that will be allowed.


But if it was specifically allowed then it would probably be a better solution than converting to analog at the head end, and certainly take less bandwidth and create less "substantial degradation". Let the downrezzing take place at the customers end for those who just don't care. But go to digital for everyone else. Digital cable ready TV's will eventually take care of the rest. And they would not even (necessarily) require cable cards just for limited basic service delivered digitally.


- Tom
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I don't see a problem with this. It'll free up space on cable systems by eliminating all analog channels, and all channels will be SD at the least, allowing for more channels to be made available on systems. The problem is that a lot of people feel that the cable companies would be sticking it to them by making them use a cable box, and are comfortable with just connecting the RF cable into the back of the TV, and use the old 1970's TV. In order to make the full digital transition yet support these people, the cable companies would just have equipment at their frontend to change SD and HD into analog to keep these older customers. I didn't read into in the article that cable companies are against HD at all, in fact they are trying to get a plan in place, sooner than later, to reach the FCC mandate.
Quote:
Originally posted by NorthJersey
I don't see a problem with this. It'll free up space on cable systems by eliminating all analog channels, and all channels will be SD at the least, allowing for more channels to be made available on systems. The problem is that a lot of people feel that the cable companies would be sticking it to them by making them use a cable box, and are comfortable with just connecting the RF cable into the back of the TV, and use the old 1970's TV. In order to make the full digital transition yet support these people, the cable companies would just have equipment at their frontend to change SD and HD into analog to keep these older customers. I didn't read into in the article that cable companies are against HD at all, in fact they are trying to get a plan in place, sooner than later, to reach the FCC mandate.
This is a pretty accurate position of the cable industry on this matter. The topic of this thread is misleading as to this matter. Probably inadvertantly, but still misleading.


Regards,

GoIrish
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If they have a cable card, why would they need to rent a box?
cable card is only 1-way communication from tv to cable company. If you wanted to order video-on-demand your out of luck (pay per view is available but only if you order over the phone). If you don't order VOD then this is not a deal killer. Many have stated that channel changing with a cablecard is pretty slow.


Also, if you wanted a DVR from your cable company then you'll need to order and use that box instead of the cable card.
Quote:
Originally posted by fredfa
If they have a cable card, why would they need to rent a box?
The point the NCTA is making is that there are alot of people who hook their cable straight into an NTSC tuner of some sort (analog TV, VCR, heck a stand alone Tivo). For digital-only channels ... they'd have to rent (or buy) SOME sort of new box. Yes, they could buy a CableCard box ... but when an analog channel moves to digital ... you always hear cries of 'the cable company is trying to stick it to me and force me to get / rent / buy / pay for something new in order to keep getting the same channels'.


Heck, as noted above ... a 'basic' unencrypted digital package wouldn't even require a CableCard ... just an unencrypted QAM tuner. But that's STILL new equipment.


A very cheap (or even free) converter of some sort (Pace box) still causes grief. A person used running the cable through their VCR to their TV ... or used to PIP in their TV ... or other setups ... is going to have problems.


Personally ... I want my cable company to go all digital. Lots of benefits to me. But ... alot of people aren't going to like it.
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dt_dc, you're right on the $$$. For those people who say "I refuse to pay my cable company any more $$$ that I have to", little do they realize that once their cable company goes all digital they'd probably be able to receive 2-3x as much programming as they do now. One of the reasons it takes so long for cable companies to add new HD channels to their systems is that their system bandwidth is maxed out my all the analog channels. I don't remember the exact number, but isn't it something like 3 SD channels would fit in the same bandwidth that 1 analog channel takes ?
Quote:
Originally posted by dt_dc
Personally ... I want my cable company to go all digital. Lots of benefits to me. But ... alot of people aren't going to like it.
dt_dc -- Me, too. The rule of economy of scale dictates that the more cable boxes a cable company has installed, the cheaper the rental of each box will be. Thus, it seems to me that allowing cable companies to require the use of a digital cable box as part of its service would create a win-win situation in the long run: cable companies would get rid of the hassle of having to provide both analog and digital service and the rental cost to customers of digital boxes would inevitably be cheaper. This would really start to make sense when networkable digital boxes became generally available.
Quote:
Originally posted by NorthJersey
I don't remember the exact number, but isn't it something like 3 SD channels would fit in the same bandwidth that 1 analog channel takes ?


If they're using 256-QAM they could fit 2 HD or between 8 - 10 SD digital channels in the space of one analog.
Quote:
The rule of economy of scale dictates that the more cable boxes a cable company has installed, the cheaper the rental of each box will be.
Or they could rent them for free, since it is shown they make more money of customers who use a digital cable box, and if they give you one for each TV, customers don't have much to gripe about then.



Quote:
For those people who say "I refuse to pay my cable company any more $$$ that I have to", little do they realize that once their cable company goes all digital they'd probably be able to receive 2-3x as much programming as they do now.
I refuse to give them more than I have to since I have to order the digital pack of overcompressed channels just to get the 3 HD channels I want, therefore I have no cable right now.


Do cable companies realize that by the time they go all digital the price to give everyone a digital box will be cheap and be cheaper for cable companies since they will save on bandwidth therefore I see no need to make people pay for the boxes. They don't have to give us PVR access on the boxed unless we pay for it either.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
How many total digital channels do you have? And what size bandwidth does your Rogers system have (750 Mhz, 860 Mhz, 1 Ghz)? Just curious for comparison purposes.


I'm on the same system as Ross. I believe that most areas have finished the buildup to 860 MHz. I don't know exactly how many digital channels we have, but if you include all the PPV, timeshift and analog remaps, then it's got to be well over 200.


We also have about 20 HD channels which include:

-east and west versions of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and PBS

-1 Movie channel (TMN) and 2 PPV HD movie channels

-2 sports channels (TSN and Sportsnet)

-Dicovery HD

-A bunch of crappy Canadian HD channels which have very little actual HD content apart from what we get on the American channels anyway (CITY, CTV, Global, Omni1, Omni2)


Also, we just recently started getting VoD and subscription based VoD
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Quote:
Originally posted by NorthJersey
Also, if you wanted a DVR from your cable company then you'll need to order and use that box instead of the cable card.
Actually, they aren't mutually exclusive; one can use both, and have two or three tuners in total.
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