[headshrinker2]

Happy Holidays everyone,

Just picked up a new Samsung 46" LCD. I am considering options for calibration.


(1) What can I achieve using THX Optimize? How far will this get me?

(2) If I choose to buy a calibration DVD, which has the best user interface? It has been interesting to note that some of the DVD's that are frequently recommended around here te to get very negative reviews from users.

(3) In what ways is a professional calibration superior? On average, what would this cost?


Thanks in advance.

 

[sethhorwitz]

I can try and help on number 2. I just bought the Digital Video Essentials-HD Basics (Blu Ray) last week, and was not very happy with the interface, but OK with the results. The last time I used one of these was Avia (DVD), and I remember it being a bit more user friendly. The DVE-HD basically explained a pattern to you very quickly, then showed it (where you had to hit pause immediately, or you had to go back and get it from the menu), and let you make adjustments from that point. From my memory, Avia left the image on-screen for quite a while, and talked you through it while you made the adjustments. I might be making this up, as it's been five years.

Having said that, it was still worth the $30, or whatever, in my opinion. Picture quality was better after calibrating, and I had been running the "reference settings" from another thread. (It actually looked much better than the reference settings.) I'm sure that a professional could do a better job, as on most sets they have access to calibration menus that you don't so they can fine tune things, but it depends on your specific situation whether it's worth it or not. If you have a TV in a very well-lit room, I don't think the results will offset the cost. If you have a perfectly set-up theater, I'd say it's worth the money.


I'd buy a DVD/Blu-Ray before you do anything and see if you're happy with it. You probably will be, you can then use it on all of the sets in your house, and I'm sure that you have at least one friend that would love to borrow it. In the end, even if your set is hitting the factory standard specifications, you may not like the way it looks. I calibrated my set, but wanted to add a click of extra red because I thought it just made everything look better. Am I maybe further from "optimal specs"? I guess. But, I don't enter my TV into contests for quality, I want to watch what I enjoy. Good luck.

 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhorwitz /forum/post/15405316


I can try and help on number 2. I just bought the Digital Video Essentials-HD Basics (Blu Ray) last week, and was not very happy with the interface, but OK with the results. The last time I used one of these was Avia (DVD), and I remember it being a bit more user friendly. The DVE-HD basically explained a pattern to you very quickly, then showed it (where you had to hit pause immediately, or you had to go back and get it from the menu), and let you make adjustments from that point. From my memory, Avia left the image on-screen for quite a while, and talked you through it while you made the adjustments. I might be making this up, as it's been five years.

Having said that, it was still worth the $30, or whatever, in my opinion. Picture quality was better after calibrating, and I had been running the "reference settings" from another thread. (It actually looked much better than the reference settings.) I'm sure that a professional could do a better job, as on most sets they have access to calibration menus that you don't so they can fine tune things, but it depends on your specific situation whether it's worth it or not. If you have a TV in a very well-lit room, I don't think the results will offset the cost. If you have a perfectly set-up theater, I'd say it's worth the money.


I'd buy a DVD/Blu-Ray before you do anything and see if you're happy with it. You probably will be, you can then use it on all of the sets in your house, and I'm sure that you have at least one friend that would love to borrow it. In the end, even if your set is hitting the factory standard specifications, you may not like the way it looks. I calibrated my set, but wanted to add a click of extra red because I thought it just made everything look better. Am I maybe further from "optimal specs"? I guess. But, I don't enter my TV into contests for quality, I want to watch what I enjoy. Good luck.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings


THX optimizer helps you set user controls ... Brightness/contrast/color/tint ... assumes you have the blue filters for the last two though.


Getting those 4 things right gets you a big chunk of the way there.


Beyond this ... the test discs like AVIA and DVE and Monster ISF have plenty of instructions and I find them just fine. Unless one has short term memory problems or attention span issues or just a plain unwillingness to read or follow instructions. Which "men" seem to do quite often.

Don't follow the instructions ... set it up wrong ... blame the disc.


This stuff ain't rocket science and it just isn't that hard to grasp.


As for a pro calibration ... the quality really depends on the person doing it and his experience level and the type of gear he is using. You might get a wee bit more performance out of it or a whole bunch.


Then you also have to consider what you want out of the calibration. Do you just want it set up and be left with absolutely no understanding of why it looks the way it does ... or do you want an education of the entire process too?


Giving answers to people that don't understand the questions is kind of meaningless. Like tossing a bunch of numbers on a table and walking out ... telling the client that one of the numbers is the right number.


regards

 

[sotti]

I'll just echo what Michael said.


Brightness/Contrast/Tint/Color can all be down fairly closely with the blue THX glasses and a THX optimizer.


Set your Display to whatever is the warmest color setting as that's usually closest to D65 out of the box for white point. Turn down the backlight so pure white isn't blinding in a dark room.


That will get you a very good looking picture.


Professionals come in with varying levels of expertise and equipment. What they can do for you also depends alot on what the service menu of your hardware looks like, they can only tune what your display allows. But they should set your white point to be as close as possible to D65 and then essentially after that they will simply be making the rest of the adjustments you made, but just more accurately because of their equipment.

 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks very much for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV /forum/post/15405829


Greetings


THX optimizer helps you set user controls ... Brightness/contrast/color/tint ... assumes you have the blue filters for the last two though.

Where does one get blue filters for this process?


Getting those 4 things right gets you a big chunk of the way there.


Beyond this ... the test discs like AVIA and DVE and Monster ISF have plenty of instructions and I find them just fine. Unless one has short term memory problems or attention span issues or just a plain unwillingness to read or follow instructions. Which "men" seem to do quite often.

Don't follow the instructions ... set it up wrong ... blame the disc.


I like learning things like this and don't mind a bit of a learning curve. Do you have a recommendation between the three discs you mentioned? Is is important to get a Blu-Ray version.. or does this not matter?

This stuff ain't rocket science and it just isn't that hard to grasp.


As for a pro calibration ... the quality really depends on the person doing it and his experience level and the type of gear he is using. You might get a wee bit more performance out of it or a whole bunch.


Then you also have to consider what you want out of the calibration. Do you just want it set up and be left with absolutely no understanding of why it looks the way it does ... or do you want an education of the entire process too?

Your question is not simple to answer. I am an avid photographer and photoshop user. When I calibrate my desktop LCD monitor, I am doing this to have a somewhat standard reference point to start with. It obviously also has other advantages along the way- more accurate colors, better skin tones, wider dynamic range...ect. My calibration software (EyeOne Display2) does not require any subjective choices.


Giving answers to people that don't understand the questions is kind of meaningless. Like tossing a bunch of numbers on a table and walking out ... telling the client that one of the numbers is the right number.

I am mostly wanting some picture adjustment because the "normal" setting on my Samsung is crazy bright, contrast is too high, shadows are all blocked and muddy. I am not looking for perfection, but I can easily see at least a few areas that could be improved significantly. Skin tones are actually not bad at all right out of the box...

regards

 

[bigsac65]

I would agree with option 2 it goes a long way in getting a decent picture; but in my case I wanted the "best" picture from my PDP5010. After a lot of research I had a pro cal done by Jeff "UMR" wow it was money well spent. He did a great job and explained what he did. The funny thing is every body who came to our house always commented on how good the TV looked just using a disc but now I get lets have a "movie night" at Tony's I wonder why

 

[sotti]

blue filter glasses
http://www.costore.com/THX/producten...=87&pid=930793


IF you've got a EyeOne Display 2, you can grab HCFR and a calibration disc and become your own professional calibrator.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings


The blue filter glasses can be ordered from the THX web site.


DVE HD Basics is a good place to start. It's on Blu. Watch the tutorial ... and go forth and practice. Some people want more hand holding ... so just go back and watch the tutorial again.


On the Samsung LCd ... the movie mode is the most accurate out of the box. It does assume that you have some light control though.


In my less experienced days ... I learned the hard way that we can't just calibrate a TV and be done with it. A nightmare client that had no interest in sticking around to watch the process ended up threatening to beat my head in with a bat because he was sure I had ruined his TV. A horrible looking image that was calibrated was now compared to two other horrible looking TVs in his home. Conclusion ... I had wrecked his TV and I owed him a new one.


Only weeks later when he had calmed down was I able to go back and figure out what had happened. Nothing actually. The TV was still the way I left it ... calibrated. But this time I spent 2 hours educating him on every step of the way ... and at the end ... he was happy.


So for this person, getting the right answers turned out to be even worse than wrong answers. Answers without understanding become worthless.


Regards

 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks for the reply. Did you try calibrating yourself prior to have the pro job? How much did you spend for calibration? In what specific ways did the pro calibration improve the picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsac65 /forum/post/15406285


I would agree with option 2 it goes a long way in getting a decent picture; but in my case I wanted the "best" picture from my PDP5010. After a lot of research I had a pro cal done by Jeff "UMR" wow it was money well spent. He did a great job and explained what he did. The funny thing is every body who came to our house always commented on how good the TV looked just using a disc but now I get lets have a "movie night" at Tony's I wonder why

 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks for the link.

blue filter glasses
http://www.costore.com/THX/producten...=87&pid=930793


IF you've got a EyeOne Display 2, you can grab HCFR and a calibration disc and become your own...

Would you mind explaining a bit more regarding how to use my EyeOne Display2 w/ my TV? This is completely uncharted territory for me.

 

[headshrinker2]

Michael,

Would you mind briefly explaining exactly what a pro calibration accomplishes? How much is subjective? Is the set calibrated to some kind of accepted industry standard? Also, ballpark $ range for a pro calibration? Is there a certain credential I should be looking for, in case I decide to hire somebody? Finally, my computer LCD monitor requires ongoing calibration. I am guessing this is also the case with LCD TV's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV /forum/post/15406481


Greetings


The blue filter glasses can be ordered from the THX web site.


DVE HD Basics is a good place to start. It's on Blu. Watch the tutorial ... and go forth and practice. Some people want more hand holding ... so just go back and watch the tutorial again.


On the Samsung LCd ... the movie mode is the most accurate out of the box. It does assume that you have some light control though.


In my less experienced days ... I learned the hard way that we can't just calibrate a TV and be done with it. A nightmare client that had no interest in sticking around to watch the process ended up threatening to beat my head in with a bat because he was sure I had ruined his TV. A horrible looking image that was calibrated was now compared to two other horrible looking TVs in his home. Conclusion ... I had wrecked his TV and I owed him a new one.


Only weeks later when he had calmed down was I able to go back and figure out what had happened. Nothing actually. The TV was still the way I left it ... calibrated. But this time I spent 2 hours educating him on every step of the way ... and at the end ... he was happy.


So for this person, getting the right answers turned out to be even worse than wrong answers. Answers without understanding become worthless.


Regards

 

[sotti]



Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15406406


blue filter glasses
http://www.costore.com/THX/producten...=87&pid=930793


IF you've got a EyeOne Display 2, you can grab HCFR and a calibration disc and become your own...

Would you mind explaining a bit more regarding how to use my EyeOne Display2 w/ my TV? This is completely uncharted territory for me.

well this is where it gets tricky. You'd need some sort of portable PC to use to the probe with. Then something to generate your calibration fields with. There is a thread in here with a rec.709 disc in here, the HCFR forum has their own DVD, spectracal has a pattern generator and HCFR will also generate it own fields. (also my little PCGG app does IRE fields, color fields are coming soon)


Peruse the HCFR thread and maybe the basic guide to calibration by tom huffman in this forum. Basically HCFR will give you the raw readings of the feild you put up then you'll tweak your TV usually through your service menu to dial in White point and grey scale (which does have a huge effect on overall picture quality). The color/tint/brightness/contrast will be similiar to what you get with just filter glasses, but more precise.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings


for the why ....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933


how much depends on how much you want done. Starting range is around $250 and up. Depends on display type too.


Reference, references, references and ask here in this forum too if you don't know who the person is.


Regards

 

[BeachComber]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15406406


IF you've got a EyeOne Display 2, you can grab HCFR and a calibration disc and become your own professional calibrator.

comical.


If a pro calibrator is using an EyeOne Display 2, he isnt a pro calibrator in the first place.

 

[sotti]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber /forum/post/15407523


comical.


If a pro calibrator is using an EyeOne Display 2, he isnt a pro calibrator in the first place.

I would assert that a knowledgeable user here with a Display2, HCFR and unlimited time will do a better job than your average Best Buy employee with sencore equipment and a couple hours.


The better your display is the more you can argue for better equipment. If all you have is RGB drive and the contrast/brightness/color/tint and EyeOne isn't going to be off much from highend gear. If you've got 30 point RGB gamma control + a full 6 channel CMS the better your gear the better your results.

 

[jarrod1937]

Not to mention the i1d2 really isn't that bad. Its only when you get to certain displays (like plasmas...etc) that spectrometers really come in handy.

 

[jkcheng122]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15406406


IF you've got a EyeOne Display 2, you can grab HCFR and a calibration disc and become your own professional calibrator.

heh, im using a chroma 5 and calman software and would not go anywhere near as calling myself my own professional calibrator.


for me the reason i went DIY is simply b/c i have the interest to learn the craft and i wanted to be able to have my display calibrated whenever w/o breaking the bank each time.


calibration in the service menu for grayscale and color not only requires extensive knowledge of equipment and software, but also each tv's service menu listings and what each setting's functions are.

 

[sotti]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 /forum/post/15408621


heh, im using a chroma 5 and calman software and would not go anywhere near as calling myself my own professional calibrator.


for me the reason i went DIY is simply b/c i have the interest to learn the craft and i wanted to be able to have my display calibrated whenever w/o breaking the bank each time.


calibration in the service menu for grayscale and color not only requires extensive knowledge of equipment and software, but also each tv's service menu listings and what each setting's functions are.

I didn't mean to imply that one could easily gain the breadth of knowledge a professional needs to do his job. But to learn a specific model, with it's specific options/strengths and short comings is something that is not beyond most of us on this board. And that equipped with an eye1 display2 we can get probably 98% of what we'd get out of a pro calibration, but we'll also be able to test, change and reconfigure things to our hearts content.

 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks to all who have responded in this thread. Last night I borrowed a THX DVD from a neighbor and did some of the THX Optimizer. I have ordered a pair of the blue filter glasses.


As expected, the picture on my Samsung A650 is greatly improved, over how it was set right out of the box. I ordered a copy of DVE and plan to go a bit further when it arrives. I must say, though, that the overall performance of the TV is quite pleasant and satisfactory right now. Mind you, I'm normally a real tweak-head when it comes to things like this, but I'm not sure how much further I plan on going with this.


In my photoshop work/editing, I had reason to achieve a higher level of calibration on my monitor. While I appreciate the goal of displaying movie material as the director intended it, I'm not sure that I will feel compelled to spend more money on the TV display.


Happy New Years to all.