Calibration of Wide-Color Gamut

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24394707

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24394558

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24394131


I have never used a colorimeter for calibration, but am considering dipping my toe in to trying anticipating the new TV I will be buying late this year.


I am hoping to pick up one of the new wide-color-gamut TVs from either Vizio (Reference) or Sony (X950B).


So my question is, in terms of both colorimeters and software such as HCFR, will either/both of these work for calibration of these wide-color-gamut displays?


And if not, will I need to wait for new colorimeters to come out, for updated software to be available, or both?


thanks,


-fafrd

Click to expand...

Hello, why you need a wide-gamut display? What will be the use of this display? Photography? Movie Playback?

Click to expand...

Dolby HDR (hopefully) - so Movie Playback. I just want to understand before I invest in a colorimeter whether these wider rec.2020-like color gamuts are going to obsolete everything that is out there or not.


Both Vizio Reference and Sony 950B are promoting wide color gamut and increased dynamic range...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24395011


REC 2020 is a lot of larger vs. DCI P3, and the only monitor right now at large inch that can accurately have 100% coverage of DCI P3 is the Dolby ~55.000$.


There's not any display right now in our world to any price range that can cover the 100% REC 2020 colorspace, so you have not to worry about that problem, Sony and Visio will be measured when they will be released and we will see how large will be their gamuts.


Also there is no content since there not available any type of projector or display to be used to master REC2020.


BTW you can read here a good example of companie promising specs measured by reference meters to see the reality.

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24395371

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24395011


REC 2020 is a lot of larger vs. DCI P3, and the only monitor right now at large inch that can accurately have 100% coverage of DCI P3 is the Dolby ~55.000$.


There's not any display right now in our world to any price range that can cover the 100% REC 2020 colorspace, so you have not to worry about that problem, Sony and Visio will be measured when they will be released and we will see how large will be their gamuts.


Also there is no content since there not available any type of projector or display to be used to master REC2020.


BTW you can read here a good example of companie promising specs measured by reference meters to see the reality.

Click to expand...

I understand that rec.2020 is much larger than rec.709. The Vizio Reference and Sony 950B both claim to cover a wide color gamut of 'about 80%' of rec.2020. Had not heard of DCI P3 before but it seems to be the standard color space used for digital projection in movie theaters, is that right?


And I understand that HDR content will not be available for some time.


So I guess what I am asking is whether it is worth using the existing DIY calibration solutions (using Colormunki Display or i1Display Pro and HCFR) for one of these future 'wide color gamut' displays or whether that would be worthless and I should hold off to see new calibration solutions emerge for these developing standards...


Between rec.709, whatever wide color gamut the Vizio Reference Series will have, whatever wide color gamut the Sony 950B will have, and DCI P3, I'm interested in any suggestions for what would be the recommended way to calibrate either of these 'HDR' wide-color-gamut panels and/or how those calibration solutions are expected to evolve.


-fafrd

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24397932

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24396572

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24395676


So it looks like these wide color gamut displays (probably also including the Sony 950B) are aiming to get as close to DCI P3 as they can (and not close to rec.2020).


So from your above answer, it sounds like there will be professional calibrators out there that can calibrate to DCI P3, correct?


-fafrd

Click to expand...

DCI P3 is used only at grading of films for theatical release. There is not any advantage to get a wide gamut for Movie Playback at home.

Click to expand...

Won't that change as HDR content such s Dolby Vision becomes available?


-fafrd

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398074

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398028


So do you see any value to having one of these wide-color-gamut / 80% rec.2020 / 98% DCI / X-Tended Dynamic Range Pro (Sony) TVs over the next 5 years or so?? Beyond OLED, it seems that there is an initiative this year to get LED/LCD TVs supporting higher dynamic range with an extended color gamut out with the idea that the new standards emerging for 4K will provide an opportunity to get some support for HDR standardized at the same time.


Appreciate your thoughts on the initiative for 4K standards and what this might represent in terms of support for new color standards beyond rec.709...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

X-Tended Dynamic Range and other marketing words means that they will try to reach the dynamic range that Plasma had (minimizing clouding & halo effect).... So this means Full Array LED Backlighting.... If companies move from Edge LED to full Array of White or RGB LED's to their expensive models, the picture will be improved.

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398263

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398220

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398074

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398028


So do you see any value to having one of these wide-color-gamut / 80% rec.2020 / 98% DCI / X-Tended Dynamic Range Pro (Sony) TVs over the next 5 years or so?? Beyond OLED, it seems that there is an initiative this year to get LED/LCD TVs supporting higher dynamic range with an extended color gamut out with the idea that the new standards emerging for 4K will provide an opportunity to get some support for HDR standardized at the same time.


Appreciate your thoughts on the initiative for 4K standards and what this might represent in terms of support for new color standards beyond rec.709...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

X-Tended Dynamic Range and other marketing words means that they will try to reach the dynamic range that Plasma had (minimizing clouding & halo effect).... So this means Full Array LED Backlighting.... If companies move from Edge LED to full Array of White or RGB LED's to their expensive models, the picture will be improved.

Click to expand...

This CNET article makes several references to a wider color gamut than rec.709 being a key component of Dolby Vision technology: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57616081-221/behind-the-scenes-with-dolbys-new-hdr-tv-tech/


Here is an excerpt: 'While the company didn't go into too much detail, it explained that its idea for this higher dynamic range, wider color gamut image, would be backward-compatible. As in, its 12-bit signal could be "mapped down," essentially downconverted, to work on 8-bit devices. This would certainly ease the transition. '


So I understand about increasing dynamic range to match Plasma levels, but it seems like an effort to increase the color gamut beyond rec.709 is a part of the initiative as well...


Somewhere I read that these issues are all being discussed within the context of defining the new Blueray 4K standard which is expected to be finalized before year-end.


Thoughts?


-fafrd

Click to expand...

So it will include 2 different mastering for 2 different gamut's in the same stream? This is impossible. How this TV can be calibrate? if it's peak white is floating? 4K TV's are released at stores at 2010 we are still waiting news for the next format...

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398354

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398263

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398220

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398074

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398028


So do you see any value to having one of these wide-color-gamut / 80% rec.2020 / 98% DCI / X-Tended Dynamic Range Pro (Sony) TVs over the next 5 years or so?? Beyond OLED, it seems that there is an initiative this year to get LED/LCD TVs supporting higher dynamic range with an extended color gamut out with the idea that the new standards emerging for 4K will provide an opportunity to get some support for HDR standardized at the same time.


Appreciate your thoughts on the initiative for 4K standards and what this might represent in terms of support for new color standards beyond rec.709...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

X-Tended Dynamic Range and other marketing words means that they will try to reach the dynamic range that Plasma had (minimizing clouding & halo effect).... So this means Full Array LED Backlighting.... If companies move from Edge LED to full Array of White or RGB LED's to their expensive models, the picture will be improved.

Click to expand...

This CNET article makes several references to a wider color gamut than rec.709 being a key component of Dolby Vision technology: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57616081-221/behind-the-scenes-with-dolbys-new-hdr-tv-tech/


Here is an excerpt: 'While the company didn't go into too much detail, it explained that its idea for this higher dynamic range, wider color gamut image, would be backward-compatible. As in, its 12-bit signal could be "mapped down," essentially downconverted, to work on 8-bit devices. This would certainly ease the transition. '


So I understand about increasing dynamic range to match Plasma levels, but it seems like an effort to increase the color gamut beyond rec.709 is a part of the initiative as well...


Somewhere I read that these issues are all being discussed within the context of defining the new Blueray 4K standard which is expected to be finalized before year-end.


Thoughts?


-fafrd

Click to expand...

So it will include 2 different mastering for 2 different gamut's in the same stream? This is impossible. How this TV can be calibrate? if it's peak white is floating? 4K TV's are released at stores at 2010 we are still waiting news for the next format...

Click to expand...

This was my question, exactly

From what I have understood about the Dolby Vision HDR initiative, the 'extended' data is intended to be encoded as meta-data on top of the standard stream. So the standard master + metadata to create the High Dynamic Range (remastered) image (including the extended color gamut).


I was just about to dip my toe into calibration using a colorimeter, and since I plan to purchase one of these new HDR panels late this year (mainly because they will be FALD and should produce the best picture), this issue of how TVs supporting the new HDR standard that is expected to issue before the end of the year wil be calibrated has thrown me or a loop...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398416

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398354

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398263

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398220

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398074

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24398028


So do you see any value to having one of these wide-color-gamut / 80% rec.2020 / 98% DCI / X-Tended Dynamic Range Pro (Sony) TVs over the next 5 years or so?? Beyond OLED, it seems that there is an initiative this year to get LED/LCD TVs supporting higher dynamic range with an extended color gamut out with the idea that the new standards emerging for 4K will provide an opportunity to get some support for HDR standardized at the same time.


Appreciate your thoughts on the initiative for 4K standards and what this might represent in terms of support for new color standards beyond rec.709...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

X-Tended Dynamic Range and other marketing words means that they will try to reach the dynamic range that Plasma had (minimizing clouding & halo effect).... So this means Full Array LED Backlighting.... If companies move from Edge LED to full Array of White or RGB LED's to their expensive models, the picture will be improved.

Click to expand...

This CNET article makes several references to a wider color gamut than rec.709 being a key component of Dolby Vision technology: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57616081-221/behind-the-scenes-with-dolbys-new-hdr-tv-tech/


Here is an excerpt: 'While the company didn't go into too much detail, it explained that its idea for this higher dynamic range, wider color gamut image, would be backward-compatible. As in, its 12-bit signal could be "mapped down," essentially downconverted, to work on 8-bit devices. This would certainly ease the transition. '


So I understand about increasing dynamic range to match Plasma levels, but it seems like an effort to increase the color gamut beyond rec.709 is a part of the initiative as well...


Somewhere I read that these issues are all being discussed within the context of defining the new Blueray 4K standard which is expected to be finalized before year-end.


Thoughts?


-fafrd

Click to expand...

So it will include 2 different mastering for 2 different gamut's in the same stream? This is impossible. How this TV can be calibrate? if it's peak white is floating? 4K TV's are released at stores at 2010 we are still waiting news for the next format...

Click to expand...

This was my question, exactly

From what I have understood about the Dolby Vision HDR initiative, the 'extended' data is intended to be encoded as meta-data on top of the standard stream. So the standard master + metadata to create the High Dynamic Range (remastered) image (including the extended color gamut).


I was just about to dip my toe into calibration using a colorimeter, and since I plan to purchase one of these new HDR panels late this year (mainly because they will be FALD and should produce the best picture), this issue of how TVs supporting the new HDR standard that is expected to issue before the end of the year wil be calibrated has thrown me or a loop...


-fafrd

Click to expand...

All this is interesting but it better to speak again whem something will come out. All now are theories and marketing tricks. It remindeds me the xvYCC or Deep Color I see at TV's from 2005 but there no stuff out expept these Mastered in 4K movies) that noone can calibrate this extended color, there no CIE cordinates or other ways.

Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn  /t/1519256/calibration-of-wide-color-gamut#post_24400252


HDTV and Blu-ray will never have anything but rec. 709 color space. There will NEVER be a consumer HD video format with a wider color gamut than rec. 709.


A new worldwide video format standard will have to be developed and adopted before there is ANY consumer source with a wider color gamut than HD/rec.709. Right now it appears that the industry is maybe 60% serious about creating an all-new video standard for UHD that will establish 3840x2160p60 as the new defacto standard resolution for UHD and it will come with a wider color gamut, possibly a MUCH wider color gamut than rec.709.


So until there is an ESTABLISHED UHD standard, NOBODY is going to be making a video display that will meet the new standard unless it is just dumb luck. Certainly no HD-resolution display manufactured now or in the near future is going to know what the new standard will be because NOBODY KNOWS what the new standard will be yet.


4K display (panel and projector) manufacturers are all guessing at what the UHD standard might be so they are supporting DCI and maybe one or 2 other large color spaces, but what is finally adopted might be different than anything that exists today.


Furthermore, just in the last few months there has been discussion that UHD may just be the video standard that finally does away with gamma.... meaning UHD cameras/sources and displays will all have linear luminance relationships (a "straight line" gamma rather than a gamma curve). If that is adopted, any TV or projector you buy today (HD or UHD) that can't produce "no gamma" won't be compatible with the (possible) new UHD standard.


And of course, a large color gamut used with HD video sources accomplishes nothing but making 100% of everything on the screen inaccurate, so you certainly don't want to be using a wide gamut display with HD sources unless that wide gamut display has an accurate rec.709 mode.

Click to expand...