Generally it is best to adjust the display to the source, not the other way around.
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Calibration With Upconvert Dvd Player
Hey Guys,
I don't think I need to list the components I have to get some suggestions. Here is my question. I have several calibration software disks. All for novices like me. I even have the blue glasses available from the Lucas people. My DVD player it's own contrast, brightness and color adjustments. What do I adjust first? DVD or HDTV. I've noticed that I can change the results of the TV calibration by toying with then DVD player. Also, once I've calibrated the DVD HDMI input on the TV, what is the best way to calibrate the HD HDMI satellite input on the TV. I'm sure they are not the same calibration. Struggling here, but really want a good overall picture. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Lorry
I don't think I need to list the components I have to get some suggestions. Here is my question. I have several calibration software disks. All for novices like me. I even have the blue glasses available from the Lucas people. My DVD player it's own contrast, brightness and color adjustments. What do I adjust first? DVD or HDTV. I've noticed that I can change the results of the TV calibration by toying with then DVD player. Also, once I've calibrated the DVD HDMI input on the TV, what is the best way to calibrate the HD HDMI satellite input on the TV. I'm sure they are not the same calibration. Struggling here, but really want a good overall picture. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Lorry
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Thanks Chris,
If I understand you correctly, I should adjust the DVD player settings? If so, what do I use as a benchmark for the TV first. Any changes I make to the player or the tv effects the overall picture and settings of each component.
Lorry
If I understand you correctly, I should adjust the DVD player settings? If so, what do I use as a benchmark for the TV first. Any changes I make to the player or the tv effects the overall picture and settings of each component.
Lorry
No. You should adjust the display (the TV) to the source, so you adjust the settings on the TV rather than the settings on the DVD player (or whatever source). DVD players or other sources, if they have adjustable settings like brightness/contrast etc, are usually implemented as a kind of afterthought, and are often implemented poorly and can do a lot of damage to the picture. Unless there is a specific need to adjust settings in the DVD player, it is best to leave the settings at default or neutral (hopefully default is neutral) and adjust at the TV.
Many players have the wrong black setup as default. I would not leave a player at 7.5 IRE when it should be 0 IRE. It is also necessary to adjust the levels in some players to avoid clipping signals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0
No. You should adjust the display (the TV) to the source, so you adjust the settings on the TV rather than the settings on the DVD player (or whatever source). DVD players or other sources, if they have adjustable settings like brightness/contrast etc, are usually implemented as a kind of afterthought, and are often implemented poorly and can do a lot of damage to the picture. Unless there is a specific need to adjust settings in the DVD player, it is best to leave the settings at default or neutral (hopefully default is neutral) and adjust at the TV.
Many players have the wrong black setup as default. I would not leave a player at 7.5 IRE when it should be 0 IRE. It is also necessary to adjust the levels in some players to avoid clipping signals.
I agree if there are, as I said, specific issues that are problems at the player. I would not suggest that people universally set their DVD players to 0IRE however, this is not universally good advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/0
Many players have the wrong black setup as default. I would not leave a player at 7.5 IRE when it should be 0 IRE. It is also necessary to adjust the levels in some players to avoid clipping signals.
I agree if there are, as I said, specific issues that are problems at the player. I would not suggest that people universally set their DVD players to 0IRE however, this is not universally good advice.
Greetings
I just set the DVD to default first ... then do the stuff at the TV end.
Then I go backtracking to the DVD player if some patterns don't look right.
Missing BTB stuff ... (0 ire versus 7.5 ire or even a bad default brightness in the DVD player setting itself)
Clipping of whites ... no WTW detail. Sometimes a DVD contrast control at default clips whites ... so you have to decrease it ... (Denons did this a lot and Oppo andPanasonic sometimes too.)
Regards
I just set the DVD to default first ... then do the stuff at the TV end.
Then I go backtracking to the DVD player if some patterns don't look right.
Missing BTB stuff ... (0 ire versus 7.5 ire or even a bad default brightness in the DVD player setting itself)
Clipping of whites ... no WTW detail. Sometimes a DVD contrast control at default clips whites ... so you have to decrease it ... (Denons did this a lot and Oppo andPanasonic sometimes too.)
Regards
Thanks guys, I appreciate the information. As for the HD satellite feed, what 's the proper way to adjust that using the callibration DVD? As you know, that is a different input on the TV. Do I use the same settings as the DVD input?
Lorry
Lorry
I never said always. I said when it should be 0 IRE and it is 7.5 IRE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0
I agree if there are, as I said, specific issues that are problems at the player. I would not suggest that people universally set their DVD players to 0IRE however, this is not universally good advice.
I never said always. I said when it should be 0 IRE and it is 7.5 IRE.
Greetings
The ideal is to use real HD test patterns ... to dial in the HD material.
Upconverting SD material to HD does not make it HD. Upconverting VHS to HD does not make VHS HD ...
All you can do is use the SD settings as a starting point and nothing more. there will likely have to be manual eyeball adjustments to brightness and color and tint ...
Even if you had done it with an HD signal ... you still have to adjust these 3 items because of the variability of satellite/cable.
Regards
The ideal is to use real HD test patterns ... to dial in the HD material.
Upconverting SD material to HD does not make it HD. Upconverting VHS to HD does not make VHS HD ...
All you can do is use the SD settings as a starting point and nothing more. there will likely have to be manual eyeball adjustments to brightness and color and tint ...
Even if you had done it with an HD signal ... you still have to adjust these 3 items because of the variability of satellite/cable.
Regards
there is a channel (not sure which one) hdnet, inhd or something that. on sunday mornings broadcast a signal that can be used to calibrate. record it to a DVR and use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorry /forum/post/0
Thanks guys, I appreciate the information. As for the HD satellite feed, what 's the proper way to adjust that using the callibration DVD? As you know, that is a different input on the TV. Do I use the same settings as the DVD input?
Lorry
there is a channel (not sure which one) hdnet, inhd or something that. on sunday mornings broadcast a signal that can be used to calibrate. record it to a DVR and use it.
I'm still unclear here as to what you're recommending. It still seems that you're suggesting that the DVD player output generally should be set to 0IRE for some reason, when that's not really the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/0
I never said always. I said when it should be 0 IRE and it is 7.5 IRE.
I'm still unclear here as to what you're recommending. It still seems that you're suggesting that the DVD player output generally should be set to 0IRE for some reason, when that's not really the case.
Players should output 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p with 0 IRE black levels. 480i should be at 7.5 IRE. Some players will switch the black level automatically with a different resolution and others will not. You need to look and set it manually when it does not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0
I'm still unclear here as to what you're recommending. It still seems that you're suggesting that the DVD player output generally should be set to 0IRE for some reason, when that's not really the case.
Players should output 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p with 0 IRE black levels. 480i should be at 7.5 IRE. Some players will switch the black level automatically with a different resolution and others will not. You need to look and set it manually when it does not.
UMR,
Setup and non-setup based video levels are not a factor of the scan rate, but a factor of the video signal format. Component based video signals do not utilize setup, or 7.5IRE. As such, a DVD player would have black set to 7.5IRE when using the composite or S-Video outputs and set to 0% amplitude when using a component based video output such as HDMI, or analog component video.
Regards,
Dave
Setup and non-setup based video levels are not a factor of the scan rate, but a factor of the video signal format. Component based video signals do not utilize setup, or 7.5IRE. As such, a DVD player would have black set to 7.5IRE when using the composite or S-Video outputs and set to 0% amplitude when using a component based video output such as HDMI, or analog component video.
Regards,
Dave
Hey David, quick question regarding video setup levels. My Denon 2910 gives the option of using 0 and 7.5 IRE even though i'm connected via analog component. 7.5 is not grayed out even while using analog component, as a matter of fact, 7.5 is the default setup pedestal. So should i change that to 0 IRE manually?
Thank you.
Carmine.
Thank you.
Carmine.
I find most display and source products are using setup with component and digital inputs on 480i consistent with the Panasonic MII standard. I agree that it is also signal format dependent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Abrams /forum/post/0
UMR,
Setup and non-setup based video levels are not a factor of the scan rate, but a factor of the video signal format. Component based video signals do not utilize setup, or 7.5IRE. As such, a DVD player would have black set to 7.5IRE when using the composite or S-Video outputs and set to 0% amplitude when using a component based video output such as HDMI, or analog component video.
Regards,
Dave
I find most display and source products are using setup with component and digital inputs on 480i consistent with the Panasonic MII standard. I agree that it is also signal format dependent.
This is an example of what I am talking about. You should set it to 0 IRE unless you are using 480i for which it would be set to 7.5. A quick check would be to check the black level of other sources and see if the brightness setting is similar. When sources have the proper setup brightness levels tend to be the same or close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noizemaker /forum/post/0
Hey David, quick question regarding video setup levels. My Denon 2910 gives the option of using 0 and 7.5 IRE even though i'm connected via analog component. 7.5 is not grayed out even while using analog component, as a matter of fact, 7.5 is the default setup pedestal. So should i change that to 0 IRE manually?
Thank you.
Carmine.
This is an example of what I am talking about. You should set it to 0 IRE unless you are using 480i for which it would be set to 7.5. A quick check would be to check the black level of other sources and see if the brightness setting is similar. When sources have the proper setup brightness levels tend to be the same or close.
Ok thank you for the clarification. I'am outputting 480i from my Denon because on my Sony LCD RPTV 480p looks pretty bad. I have very noticeable "stair-stepping" on images. So i guess i will leave setup at 7.5.
Thank u again!
Carmine.
Thank u again!
Carmine.
This is where I disagree, this is not good advice. There is no inherent performance reason to choose one or the other. Some players may clip in one or the other positions, and blindly setting a player to 0IRE may be detrimental when a 7.5IRE output may be just fine (or vice versa). The point is to use a setting that maintains the image range properly, which on an ideal source would be either position just fine. There is no *need* to set things manually to one particular setting just because the output may not be per usual standard. You can end up doing more harm than good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/0
Players should output 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p with 0 IRE black levels. 480i should be at 7.5 IRE. Some players will switch the black level automatically with a different resolution and others will not. You need to look and set it manually when it does not.
This is where I disagree, this is not good advice. There is no inherent performance reason to choose one or the other. Some players may clip in one or the other positions, and blindly setting a player to 0IRE may be detrimental when a 7.5IRE output may be just fine (or vice versa). The point is to use a setting that maintains the image range properly, which on an ideal source would be either position just fine. There is no *need* to set things manually to one particular setting just because the output may not be per usual standard. You can end up doing more harm than good.
And this is not good advice, unless you know what that particular player is doing. I may be remembering incorrectly, but if I recall the 2910 clips if you put it to 0IRE, so the 7.5IRE setting is preferred. I may be confusing this player with a different Denon model though. But the point is you can't just say that you *should* set all players that output 480i to 7.5IRE, and all that output >480i to 0IRE because that is not good advice at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/0
This is an example of what I am talking about. You should set it to 0 IRE unless you are using 480i for which it would be set to 7.5. A quick check would be to check the black level of other sources and see if the brightness setting is similar. When sources have the proper setup brightness levels tend to be the same or close.
And this is not good advice, unless you know what that particular player is doing. I may be remembering incorrectly, but if I recall the 2910 clips if you put it to 0IRE, so the 7.5IRE setting is preferred. I may be confusing this player with a different Denon model though. But the point is you can't just say that you *should* set all players that output 480i to 7.5IRE, and all that output >480i to 0IRE because that is not good advice at all.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
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