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Discussion Starter #1
I have been doing some trials of various rolling techniques and thinning paint. I can produce a finish that looks like the following after 8 coats on a fresh sample panel. This is an extreme number of coats. Normally after 2-4 coats the smoothness of the surface is hard to believe knowing it was rolled.




I have never seen a surface spray painted with the Wagner Control Spray first hand so I have no idea how the smoothness would compare.


So I am calling on anyone who has used a spray painting rig to provide us with a similar macro photo so that we may see first hand how smooth a spray painted screen is.


Ideally if you use the same technique of including an inch of a ruler in the photo that will provide a scale reference.


Just for additional reference here are some photos of paint applied with a 1/4" nap fuzzy roller"

Behr UPW Flat Enamel #1850



Behr Ext. ULTRA UPW #4850



I took these photos without the flash. I stood the panel upright directly bellow a fluorescent light. This creates the lighting conditions that best shows the texture. If you are unable to light the surface from the side like this then the surface roughness will not be revealed clearly.


Providing this sort of photo of a spray painted screen surface will be quite helpful to those considering their options to spray or roll the screen paint.


Thanks in advance to anyone able to help us out!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
By-the-way, this thread is NOT in anyway meant to promote rolling screen paint or spraying it. I just want to get some close up photos that will show us the basic differences in the surface finish.


For many folks screen painting is a one shot deal. It may also have to be done in their living room. Depending on how far they are willing to go to cover the walls and furniture, spray painting may not be an option. If however they still desire the smoothest possible finish this two roller thinned paint technique may just be a good compromise.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Where did all the spray painters go!?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12895048


Where did all the spray painters go!?

We're here! Now let me say, I rolled my screen, but I painted the rest of the basement with the wagner. I can take macro-"like" (Key word, like) pictures, but my 7.1MP point and shoot canon will come nowhere near showing the texture like your images do.


How the heck are you taking those pics? What's your camera?
 

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Ok, this is the best I could do.... Light source was a 100 watt bulb from below.


First, my rolled screen. Painted in this order: Kilz primer -> 1 coat of N9 (found to be too light) -> 1 coat of N8 gray -> 1 coat of 1x Pearl/poly. All with a regular 1/4 nap roller.



Now the Wagner. 1 coat of Kilz2 rolled on (3/8" nap), followed by 2 coats of Sherwin williams latex sprayed with control spray wagner.



Another wagner shot
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by frorule /forum/post/12895852


How the heck are you taking those pics? What's your camera?

I have a Cannon S2 with super macro. The lens was about 1 cm from the surface. Now I can't remember if that is 1/2" or 1" of the ruler in the photo. I'll have to check when I get home tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by frorule /forum/post/12896437


Ok, this is the best I could do.... Light source was a 100 watt bulb from below.


First, my rolled screen. Painted in this order: Kilz primer -> 1 coat of N9 (found to be too light) -> 1 coat of N8 gray -> 1 coat of 1x Pearl/poly. All with a regular 1/4 nap roller.



Now the Wagner. 1 coat of Kilz2 rolled on (3/8" nap), followed by 2 coats of Sherwin williams latex sprayed with control spray wagner.



Another wagner shot

If I crop the rolled screen photo down to something similar to my photos it looks like this:



That is one inch on the ruler.


I have scaled this to match the half in width of my photos:



The first photo with sprayed over Kilz2 is probably showing the roller texture more than the sprayed texture.


The last photo is sprayed paint on what kind of surface?

 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 /forum/post/12895882


Extreme Close-up



Hey Bud? do you have any idea of scale on the second photo?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I was just thinking I should give credit where it is due. Thinning paint with water and/or polyurethane were notions that I learned from MississippiMan and pb_maxxx along with many other people who were active here in the summer of 2006. The idea of using the hard foam rollers also came from MississippiMan. I know pb_maxxx preferred the 3/16" nap fuzzy white rollers and MississippiMan preferred the hard foam rollers. Mind you the idea of thinning paint is not revolutionary but the knowledge was passed on to me by those two members. In addition it was investigations of their screen paint mixes that made me aware of just how smooth a finish one can produce with the right technique. So I just wanted to be clear that I am simply doing some more investigating to see how we may best put some of this historical knowledge to use. With identification of a better source of reflective particles and the subsequent introduction of a new metallic paint mix, I think a little review of some of the past achievements in the area of metallic paint application could be fruitful.


I should also mention that bud16415 was the one who introduced me to the idea of adding a satin polyurethane to flat latex paint to increase the sheen in a controlled fashion.


So I will only claim credit for being willing to tinker around with the ideas that many people have shared openly in this forum. So to all the longtime members who find themselves mumbling under their breath "and where do you think he learned that
", well I learned it all from this forum and the members here that were willing to share their knowledge and ideas. So don't think I have forgotten.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12896715


I have a Cannon S2 with super macro. The lens was about 1 cm from the surface. Now I can't remember if that is 1/2" or 1" of the ruler in the photo. I'll have to check when I get home tonight.

I just checked and the segment of ruler in my photos is 1/2".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12896869


Hey Bud? do you have any idea of scale on the second photo?

The pencil in the first picture is .3 inch thick. So if you want to compare the thread count in the top picture to the blowup that would give you and idea. The bumps you see in mine are not caused by the paint but by the canvas texture or thread count.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here is a video demonstrating the Two Roller Technique.





I was hoping there were more spray painters out there willing to pass on some photos demonstrating how smooth a finish is possible through spray painting. Again I am try to use this as a way to justify one over the other, I just want to be able to demonstrate visually what is possible through the use of rollers or spray painting equipment like the Wagner Control Spray.
 

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Spraying takes a heckuva lot longer to setup, a lot less time to paint, generally requires more coats, and uses less paint. Rolling requires less setup, uses more paint, takes longer to apply, and requires less coats.


I've done them both and rolling is easier in my book. Texture? Every screen I've seen outside of the Carada's and the HoloVega has texture. Paint the screen like you'd paint your wall! Right up until you start adding interesting ingredients.
Then more care should be taken!


mech
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by mech /forum/post/12917199


Spraying takes a heckuva lot longer to setup, a lot less time to paint, generally requires more coats, and uses less paint. Rolling requires less setup, uses more paint, takes longer to apply, and requires less coats.


I've done them both and rolling is easier in my book. Texture? Every screen I've seen outside of the Carada's and the HoloVega has texture. Paint the screen like you'd paint your wall! Right up until you start adding interesting ingredients.
Then more care should be taken!


mech

No doubt that any one can matte paint does not require such care in applying. This is especially true when you are simply going to paint the wall. So I do agree with mech in that regard.


The additional effort involved in this two roller method becomes more worthwhile when painting a fabric screen such as a retractable screen material or a BOC screen. I also would recommend this sort of care be taken when working with translucent metallic paint mixes.



Indeed many commercial screen materials employ texture and sheen to boost gain and hopefully sales. The result I have seen is a sparkly effect in bright scenes. This is produced by the valleys of the texture and too much sheen. The issues that HDholic had with his screen are typical of what I have observed also.
 

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I'll be happy to contribute some photos of some of the stuff I have sprayed with my HVLP/compressor setup. I just have to find the time to take the photos.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12896846


The last photo is sprayed paint on what kind of surface?

It's 2 coats sprayed over kilz2 (rolled) - on drywall. It's not a screen, it's just a random piece of wall in my basement where it was convenient to take a pic. Lots of texture there, no doubt. But like you said, maybe the rolled on texture from underneath is showing through? In any case, the screen is decidely smoother. Whether the sprayed section's extra texture is due to the 3/8" nap roller used for the primer, I do not know....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Here is a macro photo of Silver Fire applied with the Wagner Control Spray on a smooth substrate, Two Roller Flate Latex, & Pearlizing Clear Coat:



1/2" total width.



What I see in the Sprayed Silver Fire is a very fine texture that is quite uniform and of a size that could be beneficial in applications where the screen is 98" 16:9 or larger.


This sort of fine texture is not really possible with any sort of rolling techniques as far as I know. Therefore with rolling we tend to rely more on the flatness of the finish to do the diffusion and try to minimize the much larger roller texture. So I can see how you may get away with a higher sheen finish when spraying.



I would just like to reiterate that I support both the use of spray painting and roller painting to apply DIY screen paint. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. With a little practice either method can produce a very good screen surface. I'm sure that if the Wagner Control Spray was available to me, and my situation allowed for spray painting, it would no doubt be my preference. Indeed if your situation will accommodate the spraying of paint and you are faced with either learning proper rolling techniques or learning how to spray a uniform surface I would encourage you to look into the spraying option.


At the same time I do not want to give the impression that learning the proper way to apply either a simple matte latex paint or even a flake based paint is terribly difficult. No doubt the techniques employed by most people to roll paint on the wall are not suitable for even the truly flat latex paints used for screens. Using vertical strips, never stopping in the screen area, and blending the strips uniformly is no more difficult than the willy-nilly methods I often see people using on the various home improvement shows on TV. Down rolling a metallic paint is really no more difficult, just requiring that you roll in one direction as a final pass over the wet paint. The biggest thing to master after that is the amount of pressure to apply to the roller. As a general rule you only need to apply enough pressure to make the roller roll. It is the excessive pressure many people apply that results in roller tracks.



 

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I still haven't had the time to take the macro photos of the panels I've sprayed (long story), but I'll post a photo I took of the first spray pass on one of the last panels I did that shows how a sprayed finish goes on. It's not a single film (more or less what you get with rolling), but a bunch of small droplets that stick to the target.


I'm not an experienced sprayer, and I have learned that I can make the droplet pattern smaller than in this photo, but at the cost of more bounce-back of paint from the target. I'm using a cheap HVLP sprayer with an air compressor. I'm still learning this spraying thing.


For relative size, the screw head is about 1/4" across.




Here is a thumbnail to a MUCH larger, higher resolution version of the photo.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Harpmaker,


Is it safe to assume you have done some roller painting also?


If so what are thoughts on the pros and cons of the two?
 
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