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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just started using Calman Home for Panasonic, and have a couple of queries that I've struggled to find answers to. I'm calibrating a Panasonic FZ952, which is a 2018 OLED (same panel as LG), using an HDFury to switch to HDR for PQ and HLG calibration.

1. What Meter Mode should I use with an X-Rite i1 Display? I've seen mention that the RawXYZ mode should be used, but why wouldn't I use the OLED meter mode?

2. In HDR, is there any way to calibrate to a P3 colorspace within a BT.2020 wrapper? As it is, the only option is to calibrate to 100% saturation of rec.2020, which obviously my TV can't get near to!!
1.jpg

3. In SDR, is there anyway to get Calman to remember a gamma setting of POWER 2.4? It keeps switching back to BT.1886.

Thanks for any help.
 

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Just started using Calman Home for Panasonic, and have a couple of queries that I've struggled to find answers to. I'm calibrating a Panasonic FZ952, which is a 2018 OLED (same panel as LG), using an HDFury to switch to HDR for PQ and HLG calibration.



1. What Meter Mode should I use with an X-Rite i1 Display? I've seen mention that the RawXYZ mode should be used, but why wouldn't I use the OLED meter mode?



2. In HDR, is there any way to calibrate to a P3 colorspace within a BT.2020 wrapper? As it is, the only option is to calibrate to 100% saturation of rec.2020, which obviously my TV can't get near to!!

View attachment 2622580



3. In SDR, is there anyway to get Calman to remember a gamma setting of POWER 2.4? It keeps switching back to BT.1886.



Thanks for any help.


Which workflow are you using? Are you running CalMAN Home 2019 R2? (5.10.1.x ?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Which workflow are you using? Are you running CalMAN Home 2019 R2? (5.10.1.x ?)
I’ve used two workflows - Manual Calibration, and Panasonic AutoCal. Running Calman Home for Panasonic v5.10.1.94. It says I’m running the latest version.
 

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I’ve used two workflows - Manual Calibration, and Panasonic AutoCal. Running Calman Home for Panasonic v5.10.1.94. It says I’m running the latest version.


Was that screenshot of the color gamut from the Manual calibration workflow? Did you select HDR in the drop-down menu at the beginning of the workflow?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Was that screenshot of the color gamut from the Manual calibration workflow? Did you select HDR in the drop-down menu at the beginning of the workflow?
Yes, the screenshot was from the Manual Calibration workflow. I selected HDR on the Welcome screen, and then REC.2020, D65, and ST.2084(PQ) on the session setup screen.

Similarly, in the Panasonic AutoCal workflow, the Colour Calibration screen doesn't even have the drop down to select a range, it has text (Press the AutoCal button to ...........) instead and it's stuck on 100% of rec.2020 for measurement.
2.jpg

That's a ridiculous way of calibrating HDR with rec.2020, since no TV can reach 100% of rec.2020!! I didn't even risk an AutoCal on that, presumably it would give up eventually?

I'm seriously questioning why I bought Calman if it can't do any HDR colour calibration, only grey scale. Trying to colour calibrate using the full rec.2020 colorspace is impossible on a consumer TV that can only cover 97% of the P3 colorspace. I'm also very disappointed with the included MobileForge pattern generator:
- It can't do HDR patterns even though everything else on a FireStick can output HDR
- Inaccurate colours - as reported elsewhere on this forum
meaning I've got to revert to using my HDFury. The whole reason for me buying Calman Home was to simplify the process :(
 

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Was that screenshot of the color gamut from the Manual calibration workflow? Did you select HDR in the drop-down menu at the beginning of the workflow?
Does your CalMAN Home for Panasonic has a 50% Luminance as a selection? ...something the user don't see?

If you see 50% selection, post a picture so the user to have a better idea about how to setup, to be able to perform the HDR10 gamut calibration.
 

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If Panasonic OLED TVs have (somewhat) the same (SDR) accuracy also for HDR modes, then I wouldn't touch anything except (maybe) grayscale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does your CalMAN Home for Panasonic has a 50% Luminance as a selection? ...something the user don't see?
The only extra settings I could find was "Stimulus Level" which was already on 50%:
2.jpg
It's the Saturation Level that needs reducing. Calibrating a TV to the full rec.2020 colour gamut seems pointless. In HCFR I can calibrate to P3 within rec.2020 which is a much more realistic expectation of a consumer TV.

On the SDR workflow, I can select a whole range of colour gamut options to calibrate to:
1.jpg

If Panasonic OLED TVs have (somewhat) the same (SDR) accuracy also for HDR modes, then I wouldn't touch anything except (maybe) grayscale.
Agree. In SDR I've only had to make minor corrections, just using 2-point greyscale adjustment. Even before calibration, it was almost spot-on:
fz952.jpg

I was hoping to use Calman Home to calibrate HDR, but that's proving impossible without the option to calibrate to a saturation lower than 100%. Are there any TV's that can even do 100% of rec.2020?!?!
 

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The only extra settings I could find was "Stimulus Level" which was already on 50%:
Correct, you need the 50% Only to Saturation @ the HDR10 workflow, as the 50% Luminance is the page default, to perform REC.2020 50%/50%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1. What Meter Mode should I use with an X-Rite i1 Display? I've seen mention that the RawXYZ mode should be used, but why wouldn't I use the OLED meter mode?
Well I've got an answer to one of my questions - "The OLED profile on the i1Display is based on an RGB-OLED, not the White-OLED displays used on consumer TVs. The RAW XYZ mode is the best substitute to use when the meter doesn't include a white-oled profile."

Now just need to get answers to:

1. In HDR, is there any way to calibrate to a P3 colorspace within a BT.2020 wrapper? As it is, the only option is to calibrate to 100% saturation of rec.2020.

2. Why are the colours produced by MobileForge so inaccurate?
 

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Well I've got an answer to one of my questions - "The OLED profile on the i1Display is based on an RGB-OLED, not the White-OLED displays used on consumer TVs. The RAW XYZ mode is the best substitute to use when the meter doesn't include a white-oled profile."
Yes, the OLED spectral table (EDR file) of i1Display PRO is for RGB OLED broadcast displays and X-Rite SDK has updated the RGB OLED table @ Aug 2018 but CalMAN still using the older X-Rite RGB OLED (July 2012).

RAW XYZ is not EDR file, its selection which will not load any additional display specific spectral data, so its like saying to the meter, don't use any EDR spectral correction, just use the factory calibration sensor data only.

1. In HDR, is there any way to calibrate to a P3 colorspace within a BT.2020 wrapper? As it is, the only option is to calibrate to 100% saturation of rec.2020.
I find very strange that Tyler, which is the resposble to design the workflows of CalMAN, was asking you what workflow and what settings you used, while there no 50% Saturation setting anywhere to your CalMAN Home for HDR10.

REC.2020 is the only colorspace you have to aim for HDR10 calibration, because displays can't cover that colorspace completely, we are using lower Saturation level (50%) and lower Stimulus Level (50%) patterns.

Because most of the consumer HDR displays are not covering 100% the DCI-P3 primaries (inside REC.2020 container), this is why we are using REC.2020 with 50% Saturation patterns for HDR CMS, because xy of 50% Saturation REC.2020 is under-saturated from 100% Saturation of DCI Primaries (inside REC.2020 container), so it's a target that you can reach when the CMS controls of the display are working as expected and 50% Stimulus has luminance target below 90 nits for all colors (~91 nits for Yellow for example).



After your calibration using REC.2020 with 50%/50% patterns, then you can evaluate to see how your calibration tracking the P3 primaries inside of REC.2020 container.

2. Why are the colours produced by MobileForge so inaccurate?
https://app.spectracal.com/Documents/White Papers/MobileForge white paper.pdf

MobileForge designed to be used for Mobile Phones, as there the levels were always 0-255, so it can produce accurate patterns. Until now...its all true.

But as the document says, they find out later that can be used from iOS, Android, FireStick for accurate patterns..... that is not true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
So, the more I'm discovering about Calman, the more I regret wasting £121 buying Calman Home for Panasonic.

1. Can't effectively calibrate HDR, given that the only colour calibration points available are at 100% Saturation of rec.2020.

2. No White-OLED meter mode available for my X-Rite i1Display meter. Really? With so many consumer OLED TVs now being used! Instead I have to use RAW mode :(

3. Can't calibrate HDR using MobileForge. Portrait Displays have acknowledged that they need to "make this more clear on our website"

4. Colour patterns from MobileForge are inaccurate on Fire TV Stick 4K.


EDIT: On my 3rd point, I see Portrait Displays have now added the following disclaimer to their website. Shame it wasn’t there when I purchased Calman Home :(
To learn more about the specific capabilities of supported hardware in CalMAN Home for Panasonic, please visit our knowledge base HERE”.
All I had to go on was the “Specifications” section, which didn’t say anything about needing a specific type of hardware pattern generator for HDR.
 

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The only extra settings I could find was "Stimulus Level" which was already on 50%:
View attachment 2623114
It's the Saturation Level that needs reducing. Calibrating a TV to the full rec.2020 colour gamut seems pointless. In HCFR I can calibrate to P3 within rec.2020 which is a much more realistic expectation of a consumer TV.

On the SDR workflow, I can select a whole range of colour gamut options to calibrate to:
View attachment 2623124


Agree. In SDR I've only had to make minor corrections, just using 2-point greyscale adjustment. Even before calibration, it was almost spot-on:
View attachment 2623116

I was hoping to use Calman Home to calibrate HDR, but that's proving impossible without the option to calibrate to a saturation lower than 100%. Are there any TV's that can even do 100% of rec.2020?!?!
I am not sure why your are not getting the proper configuration of that page. I just checked on my machine and it is configured correctly. see screenshot below. Are you running 5.10.1.94?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am not sure why your are not getting the proper configuration of that page. I just checked on my machine and it is configured correctly. see screenshot below. Are you running 5.10.1.94?
Yes, I already confirmed version I’m running in post #3 .
Running Calman Home for Panasonic v5.10.1.94. It says I’m running the latest version.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I would suggest you uninstall reboot and then reinstall the software to lay down the workflows again.
Okay, so I've de-licensed on my laptop, and done a clean install on my desktop PC and activated the license. I'm still seeing exactly the same behaviour.

In the MANUAL CALIBRATION workflow for HDR, it's actually all the drop down lists that only have one entry in them:
- On GRAYSCALE 2PT, the drop-down list just contains 2 point 30% 70%
- On GRAYSCALE MULTIPOINT, the drop-down list just contains GAMMA
- On COLORSPACE, the drop-down list just contains 100% ONLY

In the Panasonic AutoCal workflow:
- On COLORSPACE, it wants to calibrate 100% of rec.2020.

The HDR workflows are broken. When will this be fixed?
 

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License deactivation wasn’t necessary though, as you reinstalled CalMan on the same machine with the same Windows installation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
License deactivation wasn’t necessary though, as you reinstalled CalMan on the same machine with the same Windows installation.
As I said, I “de-licensed on my laptop, and done a clean install on my desktop PC”. Two different computers, so thought I had to de-license on my laptop before installing on my desktop. Maybe I misunderstood Calman licensing, it’s the first time I’ve use Calman.

Anyway, I’ve already wasted enough time on trying to get this to work. I naively thought that Calman software would work properly. It’s obvious that Calman Home for Panasonic is broken, and I’ve wasted £121.
 
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