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I have attached my chc file with my measurements after lots of adjusting White Balance 2 point and 20 point and CMS.

I am not really sure If the results are OK. I focused on getting the lowest dE possible.

I am getting some wird color blocking in pictures and WIndows icons, so probably I will reset CMS. (my adjustments were mostly based on reducing saturation)
You should change HCFR to measure 20 points for grey scale (Measures -> Parameters).

For colours, the TV seems to be running in a wide-gamut mode. Is there any setting for using Standard Gamut? Applying extreme correction can indeed lead to issues.
 
Discussion starter · #22 · (Edited)
You should change HCFR to measure 20 points for grey scale (Measures -> Parameters).

For colours, the TV seems to be running in a wide-gamut mode. Is there any setting for using Standard Gamut? Applying extreme correction can indeed lead to issues.
Dominic,

Thanks for your reply.

Already changed to 20 points. I will re do all the white balance calibration with that in mind. UPDATE: I attached the 20 points measurements without doing any new adjustments. Tomorrow I will re do the calibration.

Yes, the TV is running in Wide Gamut mode... should I change it to standard? Only for calibration or always?
 

Attachments

Already changed to 20 points. I will re do all the white balance calibration with that in mind. UPDATE: I attached the 20 points measurements without doing any new adjustments. Tomorrow I will re do the calibration.
Presumably the re-calibration will remove the bumpiness in the grey scale.
Yes, the TV is running in Wide Gamut mode... should I change it to standard? Only for calibration or always?
You should first calibrate its standard gamut mode as most programs materials are in standard Rec 709.
To calibrate the Wide Gamut mode, you should be setting the HCFR colour space accordingly (e.g., Rec2020/P3). It doesn't make sense to use Rec 709 as target and try to use CMS to reduce the saturation, when you're in wide gamut mode.
 
Ted, thanks for your reply!

1-. Yes, it seems that the used Spectracal C6 on eBay are quite old. If you notice, one of the auctions have a picture of a C6 with braided USB cable. I couldn't find any reference to that to check it it's Rev. A or B. Anyway, I am not buying any of those on eBy.
A braided USB cable isn't necessarily an indication of an old meter, as AFAIK, these meters never shipped with them. That cable may have been replaced. From personal experience, I'm aware that the way the cable on this style of meter attaches to the shell is a potential weak spot, and although there is some strain relief built in, it isn't much, and one or more of the fine wires inside can be broken.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Presumably the re-calibration will remove the bumpiness in the grey scale.

You should first calibrate its standard gamut mode as most programs materials are in standard Rec 709.
To calibrate the Wide Gamut mode, you should be setting the HCFR colour space accordingly (e.g., Rec2020/P3). It doesn't make sense to use Rec 709 as target and try to use CMS to reduce the saturation, when you're in wide gamut mode.
Dominic, ok. duly noted. I will re do my calibrations with 20 points are standard gamut.

Also, regarding CMS, I noted other software have DeltaC for saturation, DeltaH for hue, and DeltaL for luminance, but in HCFR I only notice:

DeltaE --> is this for saturation?
delta xy --> is this for Hue?
delta L --> for luminance, easy tracked when adjusted luminance.

What kind of delta is acceptable for a standard TV? Do I need to get in the same Deltas as in Whitebalance?

A braided USB cable isn't necessarily an indication of an old meter, as AFAIK, these meters never shipped with them. That cable may have been replaced. From personal experience, I'm aware that the way the cable on this style of meter attaches to the shell is a potential weak spot, and although there is some strain relief built in, it isn't much, and one or more of the fine wires inside can be broken.
Good to know. Although I noticed some post from this forums regarding the braided USB cable, mentioning the "new C6 HDR2000 does not come with braided cable as the older models" (or something like that), so it might be a versiones/batch of the C6 that mighe came with braided USB cable.
 
Dominic, ok. duly noted. I will re do my calibrations with 20 points are standard gamut.

Also, regarding CMS, I noted other software have DeltaC for saturation, DeltaH for hue, and DeltaL for luminance, but in HCFR I only notice:

DeltaE --> is this for saturation?
delta xy --> is this for Hue?
delta L --> for luminance, easy tracked when adjusted luminance.
DeltaE is the total error.
delta xy combines hue and saturation. It's much easier to display the CIE diagram in the lower window, where you can see the hue error and saturation error graphically.
delta xy and delta L interact somewhat, so you may need to iterate a couple of times.

What kind of delta is acceptable for a standard TV? Do I need to get in the same Deltas as in Whitebalance?
Some say 3, but get it to as low as you can. Note that for CMS you need to measure multiple saturation points, not just at the boundaries.
Keep in mind that it’s not just what you would like, but ultimately what the TV can deliver.
 
Yes, I know they are refurbished, but if they work properly I have no problem if the exterior is scratched, dented or faded. According to Spectracal homepage, the SpectraCal C6 colorimeter works with CalMAN software only
Hi, there is a user @ LG 2018 thread where he bought a C6 from eBay and C6 (refurbished) from SpectraCAL.

He received from eBay a C6 manufactured and certified @ 2015 (see there) and from SpectraCAL a C6 manufactured and certified @ 2012 (see there).

Now he has 2 used and unknown-way-stored all these years meters and no clue which one to trust.
 
A braided USB cable isn't necessarily an indication of an old meter, as AFAIK, these meters never shipped with them. That cable may have been replaced. From personal experience, I'm aware that the way the cable on this style of meter attaches to the shell is a potential weak spot, and although there is some strain relief built in, it isn't much, and one or more of the fine wires inside can be broken.
+1. Its a repaired instrument the one in the photo with braided USB cable, or seller found/used that photo (from google) and its not the actual meter he is selling with cable that one.
 
delta xy --> is this for Hue?
delta L --> for luminance, easy tracked when adjusted luminance.
A color gamut is the area enclosed by a color space in three dimensions.

Usually the gamut is represented in only two dimensions, for example when you look a CIE uv or xy chromaticity diagram (2D) you see the 2 dimensions of the color (xy or uv), the third dimension is Y (luminance, L).

What kind of delta is acceptable for a standard TV? Do I need to get in the same Deltas as in Whitebalance?
Below dE 1 has an accurate color performance. If you can go lower, its better. Don't forget that your accuracy on reported dE is based to the accuracy of your meter. If you measure 1dE with a consumer instrument, the same patch can be measured as 3 or 4 dE using a reference instrument. For that reason aim for as low dE as you can.

I'm suggesting 0.5dE for both grayscale and color, if possible.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
A color gamut is the area enclosed by a color space in three dimensions.

Usually the gamut is represented in only two dimensions, for example when you look a CIE uv or xy chromaticity diagram (2D) you see the 2 dimensions of the color (xy or uv), the third dimension is Y (luminance, L).



Below dE 1 has an accurate color performance. If you can go lower, its better. Don't forget that your accuracy on reported dE is based to the accuracy of your meter. If you measure 1dE with a consumer instrument, the same patch can be measured as 3 or 4 dE using a reference instrument. For that reason aim for as low dE as you can.

I'm suggesting 0.5dE for both grayscale and color, if possible.
Ted,

Thanks for your replies. I will hold with my Colormunki and HCFR until I buy a new meter and then keep using HCF and Lighspace, and eventually Chromapure (because of the workflow).

My Colormunki it's probably as bad or worst than the Spectracal C6 on eBay, as it is from year 2014 and I bought it used... Also, I couldn't make it work with Lighspace CMS so getting the 2017+ iDisplay Pro would be a good idea.

Regarding the dE I will aim for >1 , but I need to keep 100% RGB always, right?

Also, one thing i am not clear is that at IRE100 I sould be around 130cd/m2 . For me to achieve that I need to go as low as 40ish on my backlight and 82 on contrast. Is it OK?

Thanks!
 
Regarding the dE I will aim for >1 , but I need to keep 100% RGB always, right?
The software will see your RGB balance and your luminance different from the reference and calculate the dE, so take an eye open to the target Y with your measured Y also while you do the RGB balance.

Also, one thing i am not clear is that at IRE100 I sould be around 130cd/m2 . For me to achieve that I need to go as low as 40ish on my backlight and 82 on contrast. Is it OK?
Check your contrast first using a pattern (without meter) and then use RGB-High to fix RGB balance errors and backlight to control your luminance output levels (nits).

SDR movies are mastered for 100-120 nits and gamma 2.4 the last years.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
The software will see your RGB balance and your luminance different from the reference and calculate the dE, so take an eye open to the target Y with your measured Y also while you do the RGB balance.



Check your contrast first using a pattern (without meter) and then use RGB-High to fix RGB balance errors and backlight to control your luminance output levels (nits).

SDR movies are mastered for 100-120 nits and gamma 2.4 the last years.
I don't understand this... sometimes I get a low dE (>1) but my RGB is balanced but Y well under 100%.- My HCR preferences attached.

I checked my contrast with pattern and it's OK, also calibrated RGB-High and Low @ IRE 5 and IRE100 before starting 20 IRE points.

So I need to lower my IRE100 nit to 120 (aprox.) ???
 

Attachments

I don't understand this... sometimes I get a low dE (>1) but my RGB is balanced but Y well under 100%.- My HCR preferences attached.

I checked my contrast with pattern and it's OK, also calibrated RGB-High and Low @ IRE 5 and IRE100 before starting 20 IRE points.

So I need to lower my IRE100 nit to 120 (aprox.) ???
Your settings are OK.

Adjust your backlight slider to get 100-120 nits, while you will fix RGB errors using RGB-High controls the same time.

When you do calibration for multiple grayscale steps, to fix gamma errors, look your target Y with measured Y. If you have lower number then increase both RGB to increase luminance levels.
 
I checked my contrast with pattern and it's OK, also calibrated RGB-High and Low @ IRE 5 and IRE100 before starting 20 IRE points.
That setting is fine for 20-pt, but when measuring 2-pt you should not included Y in the dE calculation. The objective of 2-pt is white balance, not the correct gamma which comes later during 20-pt.

You should never use RGB-High and RGB-Low to adjust Y. Use no more than two of the three colours for each.

BTW, it’s easier to toggle between with-Y and without-Y by right clicking on the RGB graph, than by going into Preferences.
 
I am getting some wird color blocking in pictures and WIndows icons, so probably I will reset CMS. (my adjustments were mostly based on reducing saturation)
There displays where using their CMS controls can introduce issues to real content.

For example LG's CMS are not working to all displays of all regions/market/manufactured date/firmware/year model etc.

Before loosing time trying to get only dE charts perfect, you can run a quick test to see if you can find a specific range where there will be no visible problems, because if there problems to color ramps, there were problems to real content also.

Also a combination of settings of one color can affect the results of other colors, I mean while you will work to same specific (low range of adjustment), a combination of adjustment can introduce a visible issues.

It need some tests to find out. Sometimes it will be better to sacrifice performing some adjustments (so to have a larger dE) where it will provide a issue-free picture with real content.

If someone find out that any CMS adjustment is affecting with negative way the real content, then you skip doing any parametric CMS or use external or internal 3D LUT to fix gamut errors, so you perform only grayscale calibration.

A good pattern to quickly reveal issues is the Color Ramps Vertical/Horizontal:
Image

Because of these issues coming from poor design of CMS processing; a lot of years LG's are suffering; by only looking the post-calibration low dE numbers is not enough to guarantee to you a successful calibrated picture, for that reason, calibration 'art' is required, beyond instruments and measurements, to make these displays look and measure also good.

Vincent from HDTVtest.co.uk is using that pattern also to the LG B8 TV review video below:


(see 5:11 time)
 
Also, I couldn't make it work with Lighspace CMS so getting the 2017+ iDisplay Pro would be a good idea.
Have you activated your LightSpace DPS license? Go to Help -> License to confirm.

If its not activated, then no supported meter can work.

Does it display to you a password error window @ Calibration Interface -> Options?
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Have you activated your LightSpace DPS license? Go to Help -> License to confirm.

If its not activated, then no supported meter can work.

Does it display to you a password error window @ Calibration Interface -> Options?
TED, I just sold my Colormunki Display... I will proceed to buy the new meter within the next days and start all over with my calibration.

I will update when I get it.

About the Colormunki on Lightspace, I tried with the modified DLL but without having activated it. I think that was the problem.

Regarding the CMS on my LG EG9100 I've found in the default settings (ISF - Warm2) the dE is quite low (all below 5.0) My main interest is to get MediaPlayerClassic + madVR to get the correct colors to get a nice movie watching experience, so maybe after creating a 3DLUT for madVR with dispCAL, I can get better color calibration.-

Also, I will check the color ramps to see any weird artifacts

Dominic,

About Y measure using 2pt calibration, I've got it. When using 2pt I will keep my eye on the "RBG levels" tab without GAMMA, whereas for 20pt I will check the 3 colour Y graph in the "measures" tab and/or "RGB levels" tab with GAMMA.

Thanks!
 
TED, I just sold my Colormunki Display... I will proceed to buy the new meter within the next days and start all over with my calibration.

I will update when I get it.

About the Colormunki on Lightspace, I tried with the modified DLL but without having activated it. I think that was the problem.
Hi, without activation of a license (the free DPS or any paid one as example), you can't operate any meter, only virtual probe is working.
 
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