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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the Gamut Options, would it be better to use the 75% pattern as the reference for CIE calculations, or remain with the 100% choice? I've read opinions on whether 75% windows are better in general for other parts of the measurement sequence, so I wasn't sure if choosing this would also be good for the CIE reference.


Also, do I want to select the option that includes the Gamma correction during the CIE measurement sequence?
 

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You should disable the use 100% white as luminance reference option in CalMAN, unless your display is tracking your target gamma perfectly. (even then I'd turn it off just to be sure)


The patterns are 100% saturated, with 75% brightness, so gamut shouldn't really be affected.


The difference is that if you're using 75% patterns, you're not at risk from clipped colours affecting the measurements.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony /forum/post/0


No one seems to want to touch that one.

Most Calibrators don't spend time on Pioneers CM Controls. You will be hard pressed to get info from the ones that do.. regardless of what you may read, those Controls are useful when used properly by those with proper experience using them.


I think Jeff Meier and D-Nice said it best in regards to Pioneer's CM Controls

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/0


for most people it probably is a mistake to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/0


One should leave it alone if you do not know how to use it. It comes in handy when you know how to use it



Here are a few Pioneer Gurus who I know do use those Controls when needed:


D-Nice

Jeff Meier (umr)

David Abrams


Perhaps you can ask one of them, though I doubt you will get specifics.



There are others, I may update the list above
 

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TonyPTony...


Do it by the numbers. (below)


If you can't get them closer to reference in 2 clicks + or -, then set to 0


Rec. 709

x (Column 1) y (Column 2) Y (Column 3)


R 0.6400 0.3300 0.2126

G 0.3000 0.6000 0.7152

B 0.1500 0.0600 0.0722

Y 0.4193 0.5053 0.9278

C 0.2246 0.3287 0.7874

M 0.3209 0.1542 0.2848

W 0.3127 0.3290 1.0000


Color Control needs to be set for proper Y values. On mine (2008 Model) it is +3, like it is on D-Nice's reference settings.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony /forum/post/16904967


For the Gamut Options, would it be better to use the 75% pattern as the reference for CIE calculations, or remain with the 100% choice? I've read opinions on whether 75% windows are better in general for other parts of the measurement sequence, so I wasn't sure if choosing this would also be good for the CIE reference.


Also, do I want to select the option that includes the Gamma correction during the CIE measurement sequence?

I use 100% color Windows, but I also calibrate to a video white level 255 window, and not only to 100% (video level 235) white window like most calibrators do. I want to make sure even above white is not discolored and accurate.


To do this on the kuro as it does clip white at level 235ish... I had to use a RGB input signal at 255 and set the TV's HDMI input settings to Video/RGB 0 - 255. Once I have done that I can set the TV's HDMI input settings back to Video/Auto and recheck using YCbCr Blu-Ray, or external pattern generator to verify the TV doesn't lose any accuracy from RGB to YCbCr. And it doesn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908611


I use 100% color Windows, but I also calibrate to a video white level 255 window, and not only to 100% (video level 235) white window like most calibrators do. I want to make sure even above white is not discolored and accurate.

From where do you get the idea that most calibrators do not calibrate to video level 255 to make sure that the whole dynamic range is represented correctly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908611


To do this on the kuro as it does clip white at level 235ish...

Huh? Not with the correct settings for display and video chain and a correct Contrast setting it doesn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Turbe, I created an open thread for this rather than ask privately because I thought others might be interested. And I kind of felt like I'd be pestering them if I did it via PM.



Hopefully maybe one of them will weigh in over there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908457


TonyPTony...


Do it by the numbers. (below)


If you can't get them closer to reference in 2 clicks + or -, then set to 0


Rec. 709

x (Column 1) y (Column 2) Y (Column 3)


R 0.6400 0.3300 0.2126

G 0.3000 0.6000 0.7152

B 0.1500 0.0600 0.0722

Y 0.4193 0.5053 0.9278

C 0.2246 0.3287 0.7874

M 0.3209 0.1542 0.2848

W 0.3127 0.3290 1.0000


Color Control needs to be set for proper Y values. On mine (2008 Model) it is +3, like it is on D-Nice's reference settings.

Thanks SOWK. The thing that confuses me, though, is that the recommended workflow for the 9G is to leave the Color control alone until after the first pass through Color Point adjustment.


How much movement do you get with one click of the CMS controls on a 9G? If, for example, I have a given color a little over a Delta E of 3 how far should I see it move if I nudge the control?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfyA /forum/post/16908787


From where do you get the idea that most calibrators do not calibrate to video level 255 to make sure that the whole dynamic range is represented correctly?


Huh? Not with the correct settings for display and video chain and a correct Contrast setting it doesn't.

OK, some calibrators (aka most... hehe
)


So your saying your kuro 2008 model 111FD dispays 16-255 with HDMI set to video/auto for input selection?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908932


OK, some calibrators (aka most... hehe
)


So your saying your kuro 2008 model 111FD dispays 16-255 with HDMI set to video/auto for input selection?

I can have mine display 0 - 255 or 16-255 only if I setup the



TV's HDMI input settings to Video/RGB 0-255.



For Blu-Ray I use a PS3 and I can have the PS3 convert to RGB before sending out and get this to happen, but if the PS3 is in Auto(YCbCr mode) for Blu-Ray Disks the TV will clip below black and above white. I know for a fact the PS3 doesn't clip whites or blacks when set with YCbCr super whites on.
 

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I have a question for the Kuro Gurus.


Is it better to have the PS3 convert YCbCr to RGB before sending out to the Kuro (111fd 2008 model)


or better to have the kuro convert YCbCr to RGB internal.


Do we know if the kuro when receiving RGB will convert to YCbCr then back to RGB within the TV?
 

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Send RGB to a Kuro, especially if your device can output deep color (the PS3 does) as they don't do a good job with chroma upsampling.


I wouldn't touch Pioneer's CMS' at all. It's only RGBCMY hue controls. Changing RGB breaks greyscale linearity, and from what I remember, you shouldn't have to move CMY when greyscale is at D65. (if it isn't though, I don't think CMY made much difference to greyscalebut it's definitely something you should check again after making adjustments)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908932


OK, some calibrators (aka most... hehe
)

Um, OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK /forum/post/16908932


So your saying your kuro 2008 model 111FD dispays 16-255 with HDMI set to video/auto for input selection?

Nope, since I have a 2008 428XD EU Model and have only calibrated EU models, but had the US models been clipping the white dynamic range when fed the correct signal I would have read about it.



No need to feed the Kuro a RGB signal. With a proper device connected sending a proper YCbCr signal the dynamic range is preserved and there's no problem with chroma upsampling from 4:2:2. Of course you can send 4:4:4 or RGB if you so wish, if you for example have a video processor.
 
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