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Ugh! Not a good TV Fool report. Before we get too deep into this, what lengths are you willing to go to? I assume you want to receive the LA stations at 90 degrees. Are you willing to put up a good antenna high enough to clear all the local vegetation and buildings? Are you willing to accept less than perfect reception? 2 edge signal paths at 50+ miles rarely have perfect 100% reception. If the answer to either of these is "No" then you should use cable or satellite.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ugh! Not a good TV Fool report. Before we get too deep into this, what lengths are you willing to go to? I assume you want to receive the LA stations at 90 degrees. Are you willing to put up a good antenna high enough to clear all the local vegetation and buildings? Are you willing to accept less than perfect reception? 2 edge signal paths at 50+ miles rarely have perfect 100% reception. If the answer to either of these is "No" then you should use cable or satellite.
Well, I am quite limited. I live in a community governed by a homeowners association. You need permits just to put up a Direct TV dish. So, it would need to be mounted somewhat hidden from the streets if anything or where neighbors would not complain because its in their view. I know. But anything creative that might work. I can measure the area would be my best bet.

Thanks, for the reply. But looking like sticking with FIOS at least for internet and canceling TV altogether.
 

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Well, I am quite limited. I live in a community governed by a homeowners association. You need permits just to put up a Direct TV dish. So, it would need to be mounted somewhat hidden from the streets if anything or where neighbors would not complain because its in their view. I know. But anything creative that might work. I can measure the area would be my best bet.

Thanks, for the reply. But looking like sticking with FIOS at least for internet and canceling TV altogether.
The FCC has largely preempted restrictive HOA rules for putting up TV antennas and TV sat dishes as long as you own the property including the roof.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

If you fall into this category you can tell the HOA to pound sand.

You're not in a good location and there is no creative (i.e magic) solution that's going to get your stations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The FCC has largely preempted restrictive HOA rules for putting up TV antennas and TV sat dishes as long as you own the property including the roof.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

If you fall into this category you can tell the HOA to pound sand.

You're not in a good location and there is no creative (i.e magic) solution that's going to get your stations.
Oh that is good news. thanks for that information. If restrictions are not the issue, what would be the best scenario? I have a two story house, and a patio cover. But as you stated, I am far so this might also be a non-starter?
 

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I ran some tvfool reports at different heights, and it looks like more height wouldn't help anyway.
25ft
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3df1f09cc443a1cc

50ft
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3df1f046a3be957f

100ft
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3df1f0b75e8e4b9f

Not impossible, just difficult.

Calaveras might have a better idea because he is more familiar with your area, but I would suggest a UHF/VHF combo antenna, like the Winegard HD7698P, aimed at 77 degrees magnetic, or separate UHF and VHF antennas like the 91XG for UHF, and a Y5-7-13 for VHF combined with a UVSJ. You will need a preamp.


Your FM report in the attachment. You will need an FM trap.
 

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Oh that is good news. thanks for that information. If restrictions are not the issue, what would be the best scenario? I have a two story house, and a patio cover. But as you stated, I am far so this might also be a non-starter?

As rabbit73 pointed out, the antenna only needs to be high enough so that it has a clear view to the most distant hill that can be seen in the east. You have to determine how high that is. A small difference in height once you've achieved that won't make any difference.

IMO you would not want any antenna smaller than a Winegard HD7698P or Antennacraft HBU55 with a preamp. The next step up from there is separate UHF and VHF antennas. An FM filter won't hurt.

Of course no one here can guarantee reception of any particular station. We can only go by the TV Fool report and give recommendations to give you the best chance of reception.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As rabbit73 pointed out, the antenna only needs to be high enough so that it has a clear view to the most distant hill that can be seen in the east. You have to determine how high that is. A small difference in height once you've achieved that won't make any difference.

IMO you would not want any antenna smaller than a Winegard HD7698P or Antennacraft HBU55 with a preamp. The next step up from there is separate UHF and VHF antennas. An FM filter won't hurt.

Of course no one here can guarantee reception of any particular station. We can only go by the TV Fool report and give recommendations to give you the best chance of reception.
Well, Great starting point. You guys are fast and knowledgable. Thank you both!
 

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Of course no one here can guarantee reception of any particular station. We can only go by the TV Fool report and give recommendations to give you the best chance of reception.
I second that.

Jeff:

Please let us know (on this same thread) how it works out. We need the feedback to know if our advice was correct.
 

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The Kitztech 200 preamp reportedly performs well in fringe applications, and has a very low noise figure. So that may be a better choice than the Winegard LNA200 which apparently has a higher noise figure on VHF than stated. But he may do fine with the cheaper RCA preamp, but the Kitztech may be a bit better in a problematic reception area. And that Winegard 7698 seems to be the best antenna as it has that built in balun box with a direct coax connection. But the HBU55 should work also.
 

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I don't recommend the LNA200 for anything now. The one I measured just isn't that good. I found that the RCA TVPRAMP1R is very similar to the discontinued Winegard AP-8700.

The Kitztech KT-200 is not bad but it has no filtering of any kind so you need to keep that in mind if there are any strong signals anywhere. It has moderate overload resistance. I measured the noise figure at .6 dB on VHF and 1.2 dB on UHF. An FM filter added ahead of the preamp will raise the noise figure.

I measured Kitztech KT-500. I was not impressed. The noise figure was low but increased as the gain was turned down. The overload resistance is low. That combined with high gain is a recipe for intermod problems. It would be useful in an area with only weak signals where high gain is needed because a long coax run.

I have a version of the Tin Lee MA25U77 that has a sharp cutoff filter below 174 MHz and a gentle rolloff above 700 MHz. No other preamp has this. Its overload resistance is equal to the KT-200. Attached are some spectrum analyzer measurements.
 

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Overload from TV signals is NOT an issue at your location.....but if you enter your location into www.FMFool.com, you'll see exactly how close you are to KCLU-FM on 88.3 MHz [only 2 miles from zipcode location]. The second harmonic falls on top of Ch7 (ABC) and could make reception very difficult...if this is the case, you probably need to add an Antennas-Direct FULL BAND FM FILTER on the INPUT of the Preamp (NOT Radio-Shack's, which has minimal attenuation on lower FM Band in order to Pass Ch6).

Inexpensive RCA TVPRAMP1 should be just what you need...

In order to increase UHF Gain (you're gonna need as much as possible) and provide more resistance to Multipath, I would recommend A-D DB-8e for UHF and Antennacraft Y10-7-13 for Hi-VHF, using A-D's VHF/UHF Combiner. [They also have a smaller visual impact.] If you ALSO want Ch21/23/24 (and MAYBE Ch27) from the NORTH, you'll need a Rotator....which INCREASES the visual impact.

If you ALSO want Ch2 & perhaps Analog Ch6 (AUDIO ONLY...until it shuts down) from the NORTH, you could add an Antennacraft Y5-2-6 VHF Antenna with a HLSJ (Lo-VHF/Hi-VHF+UHF Combiner) inserted on the OUTPUT of the Preamp (NOT Input, these signals do NOT need to be amplified). For the PAST YEAR, Ch2 KHIZ broadcasted Country Music Videos.....and next year, who knows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHIZ-LD
 
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