[tonyptony]

With the current Superbowl sales at many stores, I've been tempted to finally spring for a big screen. Been tracking the technologies very closely, so I'm familiar with the pluses and minuses of the current LCD and Plasma sets (and RPTV). I am fixated on getting a Pio 1150HD, but I'm not sure it will work in my room. Currently using a Sony XBR tube TV.


I don't have a dedicated HT room. My viewing area is in my living room (14x26). The room can be looked at as two rooms: the front 14x13 is an semi-open space. The TV goes against that 14' wall There are standard 8' ceilings, but it is part of an open architecture first floor which has fair amount of ambient light during the day. There are ceiling lights abouve the TV area which provide variable illumination against the wal that the TV is against.


The back half of the room has a cathedral ceing with a large skylight, one wall is a sliding glass dooe with light and sound blocking pull drapes, and the back 14' wall has a bay window dead center (also with similar curtains). Seating for TV viewing is about 11' back from the face of the TV, so about 12' or so into the room.


Even if I use the curtains during the bright afternoon, this whole living space still has a fair amount of brightness to it. This is the part that concerns me about getting the Pio. If I leave the room as is, is there a feeling that in daytime viewing hours the plasma will look to dim for comfortable viewing?


I love the Pio, but this room is not going to change any time in the near furture. If it's not a space that can ideally support a plasma set, I'd appreciate hearing it from you all.

 

[ptran]

My TV room is a bit larger than yours, and has windows on 2 walls and is open to the dinette on the 3rd wall. Ambient light has always been a problem for me and rendered my previous TV, a 40" Sony XBR direct-view CRT, unviewable during daylight hours. I recently got a Pioneer pdp-150fd and it's actually much more viewable during the day than my Sony CRT ever was. Ambient light really is not an issue with this plasma. The anti-glare, anti-reflection performance of the 2007 Pioneers is amazing.

 

[tonyptony]

ptran, that's good to hear. I'd like to hear a bit more about your assessment of the plasma in daytime viewing. I'm having a hard time picturing these sets putting out enough light during the day to produce a vibrant image.

 

[karz10]

Direct reflection needs to be taken into account. If you have direct reflection, a light source directly reflected off the screen at your preferred viewing station, then you have some decisions to make.


I have a rear projection Samsung, 5yo, and have looked at my neighbors 52" Sony LCD, and recently purchased a new Samsung Plasma.


My rear projection has a matte finish plastic screen, which served us well against reflection, but it can only produce so much light, so while seated at the same height as the tv screen, you get the optimal light, even during the day, and it's ok, but if you stand up or something, it gets a little dark, esp during the day.


My friends new LCD has a similar matte anti reflective screen of some sort on the Sony. While I imagine it would work in a similar fashion to my RP, I have not tested his w/ direct light reflection. I'm sure the LCD emits more light than my RP, as my RP is older, so the LCD w/ the right anti-glare/reflective screen may be ideal for some well lit rooms, IMO.


W/ the new plasma I got, there's a period of time in the afternoon where the sun gets below the line of the porch's roof, but still above the tree line. The double window on the front of the house facing this sunset is directly behind my couch, facing the plasma head on. I have my plasma mounted on the wall, high enough to stay out of the way of the pool table it complements. From a seated position, I only see a portion of the actual window in the screen. I have the heaviest anti-reflective coating offered on my family of plasma, and I'm glad I did. It makes watching it during this afternoon window of time doable (think 4 oclock afternoon sunday football game), but if I'm alone, I'll still adjust myself where my viewing angle falls between the windows and the door, basically a wall space, so there are no reflections off the screen. At night, even if I have a lamp directly in the reflection of the tv, if the tv is projecting an image, I don't notice it. I also don't notice any problems viewing in well lit indirect light. In other words, middle of the day, raise all the shades, turn on all the lights, I have no problem seeing the image, it's only very bright direct light placed in your viewing angle causing a direct reflection that may be a problem, in my opinion.


I have bamboo shades on the windows, w/ linen like privacy liners, that allow sunlight in through the day, but you can't see outlines or images from the inside out. And in the evening, w/ the lights on in the room, you can't see much from the outside, except maybe the lights themselves. The plasma is so bright, you can plainly see its image right through the shades from the outside at night.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that many of today's plasmas are probably very bright, w/ the right settings, can probably work fine in well lit rooms. However, direct reflections of bright light, you may want to consider your options. Such as anti reflective options on some plasma glass, placing a mirror or a framed glass print where you might consider having the tv, and see if you have any highly reflective issues before buying, or in an extreme reflective situation, maybe look at some LCDs to see if there's a difference.


I've not done this, but if you do have reflection concerns, you could takean extremely bright flashglight and shine it at yourself through the tv you have now, and take it to the store and shine it at yourself through an LCD and Plasma you're considering. Just an idea, maybe it's silly.


Good luck either way.


karz

 

[ptran]

Direct reflection was a huge problem on my previous Sony CRT, but not on my Pioneer plasma. Other plasmas I've seen don't seem to handle direct reflection as well as the Pioneer, so my comments shouldn't be generalized beyond my particular model, although Pioneers of the same generation should have the same anti-glare/anti-reflection performance.


The plasma is pretty bright, but not as absolutely bright as the CRT. However, the reflections on the plasma are much more attenuated and this more than overcomes the slight drop in brightness to give much better viewing during the day than the CRT.

 

[Deathwish238]

Try the Pioneer out. If glare is an issue, compromise with a Panny 77U as glare is not an issue on one.

 

[tonyptony]



Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12903085


Direct reflection needs to be taken into account. If you have direct reflection, a light source directly reflected off the screen at your preferred viewing station, then you have some decisions to make.


...


At night, even if I have a lamp directly in the reflection of the tv, if the tv is projecting an image, I don't notice it. I also don't notice any problems viewing in well lit indirect light. In other words, middle of the day, raise all the shades, turn on all the lights, I have no problem seeing the image, it's only very bright direct light placed in your viewing angle causing a direct reflection that may be a problem, in my opinion.

This is very good news, karz. I have a similar situation with my bay window behind the seating area, but for that I have the curtains which can be drawn when needed. Other than that all the light I am concerned about is indirect, though of normal daytime household brightness. I guess I got thrown by the store torch mode where the LCDs are just so much brighter than the plasma.

 

[rsbeck]

I have a Pioneer 950 Pro in a great room with 10' floor to ceiling multi-paned windows along one adjacent wall and waist high to ceiling windows along two others. It is a very sunny room with no need to turn on any lights until sundown. There are no shades on any of these windows. The plasma puts out plenty of light and, of course this is dependent on the location of my plasma vis a vis the Sun, there is about one hour of the day when glare becomes noticeable to the extent that you can see a beam of sunlight falling across the screen, but even then, it does not wash out the picture and the anti-glare properties of the panel does a good enough job that -- to me -- it is not a problem. I had a previous generation pioneer plasma, a 433CMX which did not deal with sunlight and glare as well and it was a huge problem, so there is a big difference with the new Pioneer plasmas.

 

[karz10]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony /forum/post/12904434


This is very good news, karz. I have a similar situation with my bay window behind the seating area, but for that I have the curtains which can be drawn when needed. Other than that all the light I am concerned about is indirect, though of normal daytime household brightness. I guess I got thrown by the store torch mode where the LCDs are just so much brighter than the plasma.

I hear ya. Well, I was running my plasma (samsung w/ anti glare which should make it darker) at break in levels of like 35 brightness and 64 contrast (each out of 100) in movie mode, which is darker still. When I experiment with brighter, higher contrast, non movie mode settings, it gets even brighter. I'm sure the Pios people are talking about are even more high end, and should result in just as good, if not better results.


I think direct reflection has to be weighed w/ any tv placement, but if your main concern is viewability w/ mostly indirect light, I think you'll be fine w/ any name brand plasma.


Karz

 

[tonyptony]

I think so too, although I think I'm going to put myself in a holding pattern now that news of the 2008 Pannys is out. Some of the technology in the 850 series sounds like just what I could use. More powerful, higher efficiency cells, and some kind of integrated calibration capability with full color control access from the user menu.

 

[kpenney]

I'm going to upgrade my current 27" CRT to a 40-42" flat panel. The TV sits in the NE corner and there are some large windows on the west wall. Here are some shots taken on a cloudy day with all of the shades closed.

Attachment 102187

Attachment 102188

Attachment 102189


I'm trying to decide between a 2008 Panasonic 42PX80 or Sony 40D3000 (120Hz 720p LCD available in Canada). Do you think I will have reflection issues with the plasma in this room? I have looked at the 42PX77 also, but I'm not keen on the anti-glare screen it has.

 

[jp4LSU]

I had light issues in my living area also. I have a window directly behind my "man" chair and a couple other large windows ,one which is on a wall right of the TV and another a little further down from my chair but on the same wall.


So reflection and glare was concern. Initially I was going LCD to combat the problem and was looking at an XBR4 because of the 120hz refresh for fast moving scenes and sports.


Well then I came across the Panasonic 50PZ77U that is a plasma with an anti glare coating. It was on sale for $2300 which included a free blu ray player, so this was a no brainer for me considering the XBR4 was over $3K and I would've had to step down to a 46".


So I just had the TV calibrated and it is awesome. I get no glare from any window. If the window is open behind my chair I get a muted sort of reflection, but it is hardly noticable. I love the TV. Because of the screen coating the colors might not be quite as bright as a glossy screen but I hardly even notice. Plus a lot of those colors would get washed out if you had a plasma with a gloss screen. So you have to weigh out the options and what is really important to you.


For me glare was going to be an issue. I think I made the right choice and couldn't be happier.

 

[RandyWalters]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kpenney /forum/post/13110550


I'm going to upgrade my current 27" CRT to a 40-42" flat panel. The TV sits in the NE corner and there are some large windows on the west wall. Here are some shots taken on a cloudy day with all of the shades closed.

I'm trying to decide between a 2008 Panasonic 42PX80 or Sony 40D3000. Do you think I will have reflection issues with the plasma in this room? I have looked at the 42PX77 also, but I'm not keen on the anti-glare screen it has.

Can you replace those opaque shades with light-blocking shades? That's what i did on my dining room window on the opposite side of the room that i was able to see reflected in my TV's screen and it solved the problem completely.


My PZ700U and older PX50U are less reflective than my old Tube TV so aside from having more glass area to reflect, the actual reflections aren't as visible on my plasmas as they were on my former Tube TV. Here's a Glare/Reflection thread that will give you an idea of the improvement.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769318


But you have a lot of windows in a bad spot so if you can't get light-blocking shades and do not like the PX77U's AG screen then you probably won't like the Sony LCD either since it's screen looks pretty much the same as the PX77U's matte screen. I've spent a lot of time with my friend's Sony 46XBR4 and i cannot get it to look as good as either of my plasma TVs. I don't like it.


The 2008 Panasonics are reportedly going to all use a new Anti-Reflective screen similar to the current one, and are dropping the Anti-Glare screen completely. I presume the 2008 AR screen will be a little less reflective than the 2007 AR screen, but i wouldn't count on too much of an improvement.


I'd replace the shades, then really evaluate how much it cuts the reflections in your current Tube TV and if they do a good job, the PX80 might be the way to go.

 

[kpenney]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/13117600


But you have a lot of windows in a bad spot so if you can't get light-blocking shades and do not like the PX77U's AG screen then you probably won't like the Sony LCD either since it's screen looks pretty much the same as the PX77U's matte screen. I've spent a lot of time with my friend's Sony 46XBR4 and i cannot get it to look as good as either of my plasma TVs. I don't like it...

I don't like the matte screen on the PX77, because as you say, it seems to dull the colors somewhat. On the LCD, I don't think it's a problem. I took some DVD's with hockey footage and various test patterns (TVBlink) to a local store to compare the LCD and the PX75U. The Sony LCD had lots of blur without the motionflow, but was not too bad with it set on high. The LCD was in a different room than the plasma, so it was hard to do a direct comparison.


You know, before I started reading these forums, I never really noticed the reflections on the CRT, except for certain times on bright sunny days. So, if the plasma is even slightly less reflective, maybe it won't be that bad after all.