[chrisreeves]

Yes this is a re-post - I realized it's crickets over in the $20K forum compared to here - I'll delete that post.

I ask because I was/am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Sony 4K machine - then I realized once at 5 figures you might as well consider a used 3 chip DLP.

So my question is - will any of the Sim2 machines for example (Lumis, Super Lumis, HT5000E, C3X 1080P) be able to take advantage of any of UHD Blu Ray's added picture quality (even if they may need an external video processor to retain the color space and higher bit depth color while downconverting the resolution)?

If I could display DCI P3 and 10 bit color as well as get really high lumens I could probably live with 1080P native resolution on my projector for the next five years.

I realize they don't have HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 - but I'm not technical enough to understand whether that means that NONE of the added information in UHD Blu Ray can be displayed by current projectors - or whether it just means we have to down-rez the content, but still get to retain the added color space and bit depth.

 

[Andreas21]

Yes this is a re-post - I realized it's crickets over in the $20K forum compared to here - I'll delete that post.

I ask because I was/am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Sony 4K machine - then I realized once at 5 figures you might as well consider a used 3 chip DLP.

So my question is - will any of the Sim2 machines for example (Lumis, Super Lumis, HT5000E, C3X 1080P) be able to take advantage of any of UHD Blu Ray's added picture quality (even if they may need an external video processor to retain the color space and higher bit depth color while downconverting the resolution)?

If I could display DCI P3 and 10 bit color as well as get really high lumens I could probably live with 1080P native resolution on my projector for the next five years.

I realize they don't have HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 - but I'm not technical enough to understand whether that means that NONE of the added information in UHD Blu Ray can be displayed by current projectors - or whether it just means we have to down-rez the content, but still get to retain the added color space and bit depth.

I think Sim2 claimes the Superlumis can do P3, but I am not sure.

My advise to you is to wait and see what happens the next year and a half, and live with your current 1080p projector. Don´t "waste" money on a overexpensive 1080p 3chip DLP today.

 

[Seegs108]

If you want P3 color support and 10bit color my Q750i that I have for sale has support for both.

 

[chrisreeves]

If you want P3 color support and 10bit color my Q750i that I have for sale has support for both.

You're a one man projector shop!

 

[zombie10k]

How are the non HDCP 2.2 projectors going to display UHD BD content?

 

[chrisreeves]

How are the non HDCP 2.2 projectors going to display UHD BD content?

That was my next question Zombie - I'm not clear on the UHD BD specs. Is it the case that UHD BD players will pass a signal (albeit a downconverted one) to a non HDCP 2.2 compliant display? Or will they completely block the signal? If they DO pass the signal, to what extent will it be downgraded (i.e. just resolution downgrade, or also only passing 8 bit color, rec709 etc.)

Does anyone know for sure or is this an issue which hasn't been formally announced/resolved/specified yet?

 

[Mike Garrett]

That was my next question Zombie - I'm not clear on the UHD BD specs. Is it the case that UHD BD players will pass a signal (albeit a downconverted one) to a non HDCP 2.2 compliant display? Or will they completely block the signal? If they DO pass the signal, to what extent will it be downgraded (i.e. just resolution downgrade, or also only passing 8 bit color, rec709 etc.)

Does anyone know for sure or is this an issue which hasn't been formally announced/resolved/specified yet?

Has to have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2to display 4K BD. P3 and 10 bit are an added bonus. You are not going to find this on any DLP projector, that you can afford, unless you are shopping in the 100k range. The Sony VW1100 has all four items.

 

[chrisreeves]

Has to have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2to display 4K BD. P3 and 10 bit are an added bonus..

So there will be no "downconverted" version of a UHD Blu Ray that is displayable if you hook up a non-HDCP 2.2 device? There is zero backward compatibility built into the UHD Blu Ray spec? We know that 100% for sure at this point? I thought it hasn't even been finalized yet.

 

[Seegs108]

Most likely not. But, if they're able to break the new encryption on the disc you'll be able to view the content via PC on legacy HDCP devices. This is when something like the Q750i and other P3 10bit capable HDCP legacy devices will be useful for UHD bluray. Currently the only consumer projector out that will be ready from the get-go is the VPL-VW1100ES.

 

[mark haflich]

By backward compatible, I am reasonably sure that the UHD 4K Bluray player will down covert the content to 1080p, rec 709, 8 bit. I think this is indeed a requirement for any UHD 4K player.

 

[Elix]

Mitsubishi HC5/HC9000 has a 100% P3 gamut coverage. In fact it is its native gamut.

 

[stanger89]

So there will be no "downconverted" version of a UHD Blu Ray that is displayable if you hook up a non-HDCP 2.2 device? There is zero backward compatibility built into the UHD Blu Ray spec? We know that 100% for sure at this point? I thought it hasn't even been finalized yet.

We don't know and we probably won't know until it comes out. I tend to agree with Mark in so much as I can't imagine them releasing a new format that won't work at all on existing 1080p displays, but if I were the betting type I'd bet that you'll get Rec709 and 8-bit only when downconverted. Or to look at it another way, a 1080p display without HDMI 2.0 will have no way to signal to the UHD BD player that it can handle P3 color, so the player would thus revert to "compatibility" mode.

I think the only "safe" choice to make today, if you're interested in UHD Blu-ray, is to wait, and see what the actual requirements are.

 

[Mike Garrett]

We don't know and we probably won't know until it comes out. I tend to agree with Mark in so much as I can't imagine them releasing a new format that won't work at all on existing 1080p displays, but if I were the betting type I'd bet that you'll get Rec709 and 8-bit only when downconverted. Or to look at it another way, a 1080p display without HDMI 2.0 will have no way to signal to the UHD BD player that it can handle P3 color, so the player would thus revert to "compatibility" mode.

I think the only "safe" choice to make today, if you're interested in UHD Blu-ray, is to wait, and see what the actual requirements are.

Why would you expect it to play? You can't play a BD in a DVD player. The backward compatibility would be that the 4K BD player will play BD and DVD.

 

[stanger89]

Why would you expect it to play? You can't play a BD in a DVD player. The backward compatibility would be that the 4K BD player will play BD and DVD.

I'm talking about displays, not players. When BD came out you could hook it up to an SDTV if you wanted (not sure why you would). My Pioneer BDP-51FD has Composite, S-Video, and L/R Audio outputs on it.

I would expect you can connect an UHD BD player to an HDMI 1.4 display and get something. It could be pointless to try (ie you'd get at best BD quality), but I would think it would work.

 

[Mike Garrett]

I'm talking about displays, not players. When BD came out you could hook it up to an SDTV if you wanted (not sure why you would). My Pioneer BDP-51FD has Composite, S-Video, and L/R Audio outputs on it.

I would expect you can connect an UHD BD player to an HDMI 1.4 display and get something. It could be pointless to try (ie you'd get at best BD quality), but I would think it would work.

I agree with you, I think you will get something, just don't know what it will be. I suspect that it will go to the lowest denominator. So if 1080P display will go to that.

 

[Craig Peer]

I'm talking about displays, not players. When BD came out you could hook it up to an SDTV if you wanted (not sure why you would). My Pioneer BDP-51FD has Composite, S-Video, and L/R Audio outputs on it.

I would expect you can connect an UHD BD player to an HDMI 1.4 display and get something. It could be pointless to try (ie you'd get at best BD quality), but I would think it would work.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. Perhaps 4K source material down converted for a 1080p projector will still look better than a 1080p Blu Ray. Or not.

 

[mark haflich]

I would think it would look worse than native 2K because of the processing.

 

[donaldk]

Chris, I posted a reply, while you were deleting it, see the replies in the Big Boy's Big Toys section. Yes, there are current 3 DMD projectors that can do what you want, just not the one you mentioned. The new Alchemy mediablock by Barco supports this via HDMI. Internally current DCi machines are 16 bits or even more.

 

[donaldk]

I would think it would look worse than native 2K because of the processing.

With proper subsampling MTF should be better, as you are taking everything below the 4K MTF curve?!

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

It will be interesting to see how this works out. Perhaps 4K source material down converted for a 1080p projector will still look better than a 1080p Blu Ray. Or not.

UHD 420 res = FHD 444 chroma res, and 444 is nominally better than 420 (though marginally so), so there should be an improvement.

Not sure why they don't implement P3 and 10-bit in consumer 1080p projectors in the meanwhile before 4k projectors become affordable, but that's a different discussion. I want my next projector to have better blacks, HDR, 10-bit, HDMI 2, DisplayPort 1.2a...hey a man can dream can't he? hehe