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I've heard many times now that AVR quality has taken a back seat to features. That the added features has the effect of compromising on the sound quality.

How does that happen? Can someone please explain how features would be able to affect sound quality if one simply tried turning them off? :confused: Or are some feature not able to be turned off?
 

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I'm rambling a bit after I think about this some more....

As to your question of how, supposedly the circuitry noise in features, beyond that absolutely necessary for pure analog bliss, pollutes the experience for some so you must segregate it until it can be segregated no more! I remember more issues with sound qualities with few features in receivers back in my 2ch days, and much more with sources (pre-cd). Today you can get awesome sounding gear for great prices. You have a huge choice in source materials both audio and video. You're even welcome to even reward artists who put out crappy overcompressed recordings...or just whine about it and buy them anyways. LOL!

Does it all sound or measure the same? Does it all have the same capabilities? Of course not so you still have to find a combination that works for you. If you want to worry whether a dsp circuit or network card will pollute your experience, perhaps you can dwell in the 2ch analog separates world maybe, or blend in some digital or whatever, and be happy and pure or something like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
For all avrs? In general? What exactly did you "hear" and from who?
In general. On audio forums. From salespeople.

That engineering has gone backwards, that AVR's concentrate more on features than on sound quality. That the implementation of more features affects sound quality.

I want to know if this has any degree of truth to it.
 

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That's a big broad brush stroke, don't you think? Can you come up with a somewhat specific example? What avrs (brands, models, price range, something?) are you talking about?

You think consumer electronics have been moving backwards? In the audio industry? In general?

You can find a degree of truth to just about anything you put under enough scrutiny or limit your scope sufficiently, but how would you measure it?

What are these supposedly better avr units that we are now devolving from with this backwards move in engineering?

ps Salespeople? Really? In this industry?!
 

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This is an interesting question because we all know that the best sound quality is no interference but only a direct signal path without contour and in straight line with the shortest distance. Any video processing, DSP, radio frequencies, Internet connections, Network hubs, iPods, phono preamp, headphone amp, tone controls, balance control, ...act as an interim to a direct communication and affecting its overall effectiveness (sound performance).

So yes, the more features you have the more degraded the sound quality of its best section. Me sincerely and fully thinks.

There is no good news like bad news.
 

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A similar thread is here and my response is post 10..
Cool.

* In high-end stereo (strictly music), or from a front end analog rig or from a digital one or both; you have:

- A pair of high resolution loudspeakers (full range).
- A stereo preamplifier without tone controls.
- A separate phono preamp.
- A turntable with an anti-vibration platform base.
- An Open-Reel-Tape deck (R2R).
- A separate DAC.
- A separate CD/SACD transport.
- A separate power supply.
- A pair of monoblock amplifiers.
- A pair of speaker wires.
- Some interconnects (analog and digital).
- Some AC power cords.
- A room with a view (acoustical treatments).

Everything is minimal and simple. ...And positioned properly.
{Some hi-fi rigs are even much more simpe; it's only analog or only digital.}

________

There are usually no DSP Room correction and EQualization. But few people do use judicious parametric EQ or Dirac Live or EQuivalent.
Some people might also use a digital music server.
And other people might have a high-end analog or digital tuner (SEQuerra Reference or the like).

We don't see any video processor because it is a room strictly for the music purists (dedicated music listeners; active type).
There are no Ethernet jack for Internet streaming, but the music server.

You'll never see a packed AV receiver in that room. No DVD player, no Blu-ray player, no X-Box game console and control, no PS3.
...No mickey mouse CD player, no Cerwin Vega or Polk speakers, no Surround Sound Processor either.
Some people might use a subwoofer or two though, for that first octave (16Hz to 32Hz).

Nothing has to be expensive, but just good solid audio engineering; simple and efficient design. ...Well built and implemented and working in good synergy. The less the more there you are, you with he music, the musicians, live.

Features? What features, the apps they put in your receivers and BR players? ...That room is another room, for movies.
...For processing, for DSP, for streaming movies, with compressed sound. ...With video processors, with HDMI transmission, with USB sticks, with Wi-Fi and wireless Bluetooth and Internet interaction, eighteen speakers and six subwoofers inside a 16x12x8' size room, compact and fully loaded.
Apps by the ton loads, Apple and Microsoft living under the same roof @ the same time, inside the same machine and operated thru your iPhone and android. FLAC, WAV, MK2, AVCHD, ,,, two thousand file formats. ...Even MP3 included, ...Netflix, Pandora, Avatar, VooDoo, Rapdody, .Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra, ...all that jazz and pizzazz. ...Butt kickers under your butt, Sensation Sensor Sound, Pulmonary vascular heart transvestite, mind blowing blood veins crushing bones body parts, brain washing dishes, uncontrolled excavations from under your house, plaster cracking and beams melting, airplane landing @ your front step entrance without even ringing the door bell, setup menus spread over 436 pages under the main menu page for all parameters inside the cockpit, in dB in feet in meters in inches and in plentiful, you can lose yourself very easily for months inside the complex labyrinth that is part of your av receiver or never find your way back home and stay lost forever in space gravitating around the moon in perpetuity, features and setups and menus and configurations and adjustments and mic positioning and mathematical equation and complication of the most precise complex duplex apt residential skyscraper elevation atmospheric multiverse.

I would say that features can alter your space's perception, slightly. ...Like an out-of-state experience, where your body goes out of your mind & vice versa.
 

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Cool.

* In high-end stereo (strictly music), or from a front end analog rig or from a digital one or both; you have:
My system was designed as 2ch with surround added in side chain: only movies are going through the AVR, soon to be replaced with a new HTPC. I designed and built a mutichannel preamp so that feeds the active xover, volume controls and amplifiers. It is the shortest chain possible in the digital domain. In analogue gain structure is set so that no other devices are in chain, except the ADC (ESS9112) as the xovers are DSP based.

I understand the audiophile world well, but only visit now to shake my head at whatever the new absurdity is this month.

The point of the question is answered that you can turn off most if not all of the added features, eg room correction if you don't want to use it, so in that case they make no difference.

Nothing has to be expensive, but just good solid audio engineering; simple and efficient design. ...Well built and implemented and working in good synergy.
Correct, except there is no such thing as synergy. It's a made up hand wavy audiophile concept that the can use to mean many things depending on the user.
 
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I've heard many times now that AVR quality has taken a back seat to features. That the added features has the effect of compromising on the sound quality.

How does that happen? Can someone please explain how features would be able to affect sound quality if one simply tried turning them off? :confused: Or are some feature not able to be turned off?

They divert money from more important areas like the transformer and capacitors.
 

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I've heard many times now that AVR quality has taken a back seat to features. That the added features has the effect of compromising on the sound quality.

How does that happen? Can someone please explain how features would be able to affect sound quality if one simply tried turning them off? :confused: Or are some feature not able to be turned off?
My experience is that AVR features like bass management, dynamic EQ, and room correction can improve sound quality for the vast majority of users. I'm not an engineer, but I am very interested in learning about this issue. I've never seen anything convincing that suggests to me AVR sound quality is compromised compared to some mythical past. If anything I'd say the sound quality is improving for most users, the biggest factor being active subwoofers (and bass management).
 

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Cool.

* In high-end stereo (strictly music), or from a front end analog rig or from a digital one or both; you have:

- A pair of high resolution loudspeakers (full range).
- A stereo preamplifier without tone controls.
- A separate phono preamp.
- A turntable with an anti-vibration platform base.
- An Open-Reel-Tape deck (R2R).
- A separate DAC.
- A separate CD/SACD transport.
- A separate power supply.
- A pair of monoblock amplifiers.
- A pair of speaker wires.
- Some interconnects (analog and digital).
- Some AC power cords.
- A room with a view (acoustical treatments).

Everything is minimal and simple. ...And positioned properly.
{Some hi-fi rigs are even much more simpe; it's only analog or only digital.}

________

There are usually no DSP Room correction and EQualization. But few people do use judicious parametric EQ or Dirac Live or EQuivalent.
Some people might also use a digital music server.
And other people might have a high-end analog or digital tuner (SEQuerra Reference or the like).

We don't see any video processor because it is a room strictly for the music purists (dedicated music listeners; active type).
There are no Ethernet jack for Internet streaming, but the music server.

You'll never see a packed AV receiver in that room. No DVD player, no Blu-ray player, no X-Box game console and control, no PS3.
...No mickey mouse CD player, no Cerwin Vega or Polk speakers, no Surround Sound Processor either.
Some people might use a subwoofer or two though, for that first octave (16Hz to 32Hz).

Nothing has to be expensive, but just good solid audio engineering; simple and efficient design. ...Well built and implemented and working in good synergy. The less the more there you are, you with he music, the musicians, live.

Features? What features, the apps they put in your receivers and BR players? ...That room is another room, for movies.
...For processing, for DSP, for streaming movies, with compressed sound. ...With video processors, with HDMI transmission, with USB sticks, with Wi-Fi and wireless Bluetooth and Internet interaction, eighteen speakers and six subwoofers inside a 16x12x8' size room, compact and fully loaded.
Apps by the ton loads, Apple and Microsoft living under the same roof @ the same time, inside the same machine and operated thru your iPhone and android. FLAC, WAV, MK2, AVCHD, ,,, two thousand file formats. ...Even MP3 included, ...Netflix, Pandora, Avatar, VooDoo, Rapdody, .Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra, ...all that jazz and pizzazz. ...Butt kickers under your butt, Sensation Sensor Sound, Pulmonary vascular heart transvestite, mind blowing blood veins crushing bones body parts, brain washing dishes, uncontrolled excavations from under your house, plaster cracking and beams melting, airplane landing @ your front step entrance without even ringing the door bell, setup menus spread over 436 pages under the main menu page for all parameters inside the cockpit, in dB in feet in meters in inches and in plentiful, you can lose yourself very easily for months inside the complex labyrinth that is part of your av receiver or never find your way back home and stay lost forever in space gravitating around the moon in perpetuity, features and setups and menus and configurations and adjustments and mic positioning and mathematical equation and complication of the most precise complex duplex apt residential skyscraper elevation atmospheric multiverse.

I would say that features can alter your space's perception, slightly. ...Like an out-of-state experience, where your body goes out of your mind & vice versa.
I still say you smoke way too much dope.
 

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Hard to disagree with that Peter (post number 15).

A big difference today as compared to the 70s and 80s is the video equation and the surround sound immersion, over two-channel stereo hi-fi sound.

The movie theater room is packed with features, some good, and some less, and the sound is multiple directions, and the screen is larger and thinner.

______

For pure stereo music listening; there are other rooms in our homes, including the home theater room. ...But we don't see too many turntables in that last one (HTR).
LPs are still stereo, and mono (and few quads too). ...I wonder, how many people apply DSP surround sound modes to their vinyl albums? ...Using the ADC (Analog to Digital Conversion) from their AV receivers and SSPs.

♦ Serious music listening usually requires less features than more. ...But we are evolving, and the times they are a changin'.
Some features are good to enhance sound quality? ...Best feature is a good acoustically treated room, and second best feature is a good matching pair of loudspeakers for that room.

And slowly we build from there: Twenty-six more floor speakers, eight subwoofers, ten overhead speakers, 200" screen, 4K front projector (3D Ready), Trinnov/Datasat 3D sound mapping and object based rendering with Dolby Atmos inside along with Auro-3D and the upcoming DTS:X sound decoder.

...And a jukebox, a kaleidoscope, a movie box organizer, HD & UHD, a sophisticated movie/music server (4K & hi-res), a connection to the entire world @ the single push of a remote controlled button near right next by our main chair (armrest).

Today is not like when I was growing up in the 70s. ...Then in 1982 Dolby Surround appeared, in our VHS machines (VCRs), and AV receivers.
Look @ us now, with DTS:X 11-channels of immersive sound in our smartphones from our headphones. ...Apps.
 

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Can't take the humor with another realistic perspective? ;)

It's ok, you'll survive. Next time I'll keep my opinion to myself.

______

I brought the two sides of the equation; the stereo listening mode (music), and the movie mode, as a contrast of two worlds.
Of course I exaggerated a lot on the movie mode, but that was the point; to bring all the features and much much more, to the extreme, almost sounding like a marijuana smoking addict.
[I don't smoke pot, perhaps I should; as it frees us, some of us, from the stress surrounding us; it relaxes our brain muscles, and expand our vision into a healthier world, plus it is a healer for many, a medicinal benefactor, a cure that saves lives.]

The AVR is not usually the component for true sound quality that we associate with serious 2-channel stereo music listening; usually.

Sure, we can easily bifurcate from my vision, and some high-end surround sound processors, and AVRs too are pretty good @ two-channel music performance (quality sound reproduction).
But it is more the exception than the norm. ...In the higher-end world of strict music stereo listening. ...When on the quest to the u!timate ♫ bliss.

Anyway, we can go many directions; and I simply went one of them. You don't have to accept it as it's only a vague analysis, but still valid for many other music lovers out there. It is as expanded as there are features in our AV receivers today; the various methods and ways of doing by different people.

Voila Monsieur. ...It's about the tonality, the ♪ tone. ...Too many features, too many sound adjustments, too many tone controls, too much digital DSP equalization and processing can affect that tone, in ways that are more detrimental than natural improvement.
 
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