[stamina1914]

I went to BB yesterday and I saw the Sony 4K streaming Box, it was actually a 4 inch high circle and it looked beautiful. It then dawned on me, and I know for some of you here reached this conclusion years ago, that hard disc will be no more. I mean in two years time. For those who do no know, the 4K box allows you to go to the Sony online store and stream content. My question is, will it be possible to do this with an HTPC. If yes what do you think the minimum requirements will be.



Thanks

 

[Mfusick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by stamina1914  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc/0_100#post_24481281


I went to BB yesterday and I saw the Sony 4K streaming Box, it was actually a 4 inch high circle and it looked beautiful. It then dawned on me, and I know for some of you here reached this conclusion years ago, that hard disc will be no more. I mean in two years time. For those who do no know, the 4K box allows you to go to the Sony online store and stream content. My question is, will it be possible to do this with an HTPC. If yes what do you think the minimum requirements will be.



Thanks

Actually Sony and Panasonic just developed next generation BR discs that should hold up to 1TB each. 300GB discs are just around the corner and will be used to deliver 4k materials.

 

[pittsoccer33]

The "digital copy" code on a DVD gives you what - a 480p .mp4 file in most cases? Thats really the only similar, legit, option to save your movie(s) to hard drive.


Kaleidescape and RED are doing high res downloads like the Sony system, but they are both closed and proprietary as well. Look how the studios fought against RealDVD and the original Kaleidescape system - the copy saved to the hard drive was still encrypted and that was not good enough for them.


The studios want to get away from selling and renting discs as soon as they possibly can. You have to figure they each want their own "online store" where you go to lease playback of movies. They'll want that to be on demand, where access can be shut on or off at their discretion.


If a PC system were approved it would have to have the weight of someone like Apple or Microsoft behind it. I would imagine it being like the Vista Cablecard ready HTPCs - verified and authenticated motherboards and BIOS from major PC makers. The system would have to be as locked down as possible to prevent the DRM from being cracked - the same way WTV never has been. I think of someone were able to crack WTV that Microsoft would be patching it immediately.

 

[Mfusick]

 http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/178166-1tb-per-disc-sony-and-panasonic-team-up-on-next-gen-blu-ray

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/10/sony-panasonic-archival-disc/

http://gizmodo.com/sony-and-panasonics-new-optical-archival-discs-will-st-1540272773

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2106260/sony-panasonic-develop-300gb-optical-discs-for-enterprise-storage.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sony-panasonic-archival-disc-blu-ray-storage,26252.html

Sony & Panasonic Optical Archival Disc Stores 300GB to 1TB

Quote:
The Archival discs will have the same dimensions as the current Blu-ray discs, will be double-sided packing three layers each side, and readable for at least 50 years. These discs won't even need a special controlled, storage environment, and have a lower power consumption compared to linear tape-open technology (LTO).

 

[Mfusick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by stamina1914  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc/0_100#post_24481281


I went to BB yesterday and I saw the Sony 4K streaming Box, it was actually a 4 inch high circle and it looked beautiful. It then dawned on me, and I know for some of you here reached this conclusion years ago, that hard disc will be no more. I mean in two years time. For those who do no know, the 4K box allows you to go to the Sony online store and stream content. My question is, will it be possible to do this with an HTPC. If yes what do you think the minimum requirements will be.



Thanks

It's definetely possible with next generation HDMI 2.0. Current HDMI specs won't do 4k resolution so today you would need something like a dual HDMI link (proprietary using two cables) or Display Port or dual DVI. Next generation HDMI 2.0 should handle 4K and video cards and motherboards in the near future would likely include these.


4K from a PC perspective is not too far away. You can do it now. They sell 4K monitors already, and there is hardware that can handle 4K. With the current push in iGPU specs and capabilities I would imagine that 4k in the near future might even be possible without a GPU card and just standard mobo and CPU. Doing 4k isn't all that crazy as far as standard playback of video or pictures goes. Doing something like MadVR might need some high power. I'd cringe to think what it might take to do SVP frame interpolation at 4k. That would be serious hardware.


I think the next generation of Intel CPU and mobo and chipsets will probably support 4k. That's the rumor now anyways. If it costs a lot more to do 4k, that will also be temporary. 4K will be the new 1080p in the next few years.

 

[pittsoccer33]

I think @stamina1914 's question is "will home users be able to build their own homebrew 4K server?"


If the question is whether or not a PC can be built to store and playback 4K media the answer is yes we can do that now. Like you noted the next gen hardware (HDMI 2.0 connections, H265 decoding) is still being drawn up to match a codified "this is what Ultra High Definitition is" standard, but there are certainly 4K monitors, video files, and video cards that can display it now.


If the question is whether or not a PC will be able to digitally purchase, store UHD/4K media like the Sony server or REDRay I think that is very much in doubt. As long as you can get movies on disc and there is PC hardware to read those discs someone will figure out how to copy them. But that will be the next evolution of what current HTPCs are doing, not exactly an alternative to the Sony system.

 

[Mfusick]

Yeah I am nearly certain that once 4K material is created or available it will be for sale, and someone will be willing to sell it to you. That's a basic given

The internet and HTPC is only growing, and anything that is available in streaming or discs will likely find it's way to PC. PC tech always supports cutting edge, in many ways it shapes it.


You can always download 4K torrents, or demos - including the Sony demo which is 300GB for 4K.

 

[ajhieb]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24481410


It's definetely possible with next generation HDMI 2.0. Current HDMI specs won't do 4k resolution so today you would need something like a dual HDMI link (proprietary using two cables) or Display Port or dual DVI. Next generation HDMI 2.0 should handle 4K and video cards and motherboards in the near future would likely include these.

HDMI 1.4 (circa 2009) supports 4k resolutions. The problem isn't with the specification, the problem is there simply isn't much hardware out there now that supports 4k video.


HDMI 2.0 adds support for 4k resolutions at framerates above 30p.

Quote:
4K from a PC perspective is not too far away. You can do it now. They sell 4K monitors already, and there is hardware that can handle 4K. With the current push in iGPU specs and capabilities I would imagine that 4k in the near future might even be possible without a GPU card and just standard mobo and CPU. Doing 4k isn't all that crazy as far as standard playback of video or pictures goes. Doing something like MadVR might need some high power. I'd cringe to think what it might take to do SVP frame interpolation at 4k. That would be serious hardware.

I think a lot of current hardware can run at 4k resolutions, the biggest limiting factor for that is with the decoding of compressed video. Most 4k video is compressed with h.265 which is still in its infancy.

 

[Mfusick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc/0_100#post_24481473

HDMI 1.4 (circa 2009) supports 4k resolutions. The problem isn't with the specification, the problem is there simply isn't much hardware out there now that supports 4k video.


HDMI 2.0 adds support for 4k resolutions at framerates above 30p.

I think a lot of current hardware can run at 4k resolutions, the biggest limiting factor for that is with the decoding of compressed video. Most 4k video is compressed with h.265 which is still in its infancy.

Good points. But yeah generally when HDMI 2.0 comes and the 4K sets get cheaper and more popular and more 4K content is available I think you will see 4K grow. It's coming. How fast it grows and how much consumers adopt it remains yet to be seen, but it's coming.


There is many factors that need to develop before 4k is main stream. Some of them are HDMI 2.0 and h.265 video, some of them are availability of 4k displays are reasonable prices, and some are availability of 4k content.

 

[ElJimador]

As far as 4K streaming goes, isn't the only real limitation now that the content isn't available? If Sony has a 4K streaming box that lets you stream 4K content from its online store then I'm guessing you could build a PC that could do the same thing now if only Sony will let you access that content from something other than their own proprietary equipment. So the technology is not the issue, right? It's whether the content providers are going to open it up or try to keep everything in their own closed eco-system?


BTW I notice that the Sony streaming box has a 2TB hard drive. What's that for if you're streaming? If you're downloading 4K that's not going to be remotely enough capacity as more 4K content becomes available, and if you're streaming it it's irrelevant. Correct? Or what am I missing?

 

[ajhieb]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24481567


BTW I notice that the Sony streaming box has a 2TB hard drive. What's that for if you're streaming? If you're downloading 4K that's not going to be remotely enough capacity as more 4K content becomes available, and if you're streaming it it's irrelevant. Correct? Or what am I missing?

I suspect it is more like an "on demand" system where the content is sent to your box, and stored there for a certain period of time. Unless you have an outrageously fast and reliable internet connection, you'll want a copy stored locally if you don't want to deal with hiccups and freezing.

 

[stanger89]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24481321


Actually Sony and Panasonic just developed next generation BR discs that should hold up to 1TB each. 300GB discs are just around the corner and will be used to deliver 4k materials.

Those are for archival use only. The way it looks is BD2.0 or 4KBD or whatever it's called will be based on 100GB disks:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/12/singulus-tests-100gb-4k-ready-blu-ray-discs/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24481567


As far as 4K streaming goes, isn't the only real limitation now that the content isn't available? If Sony has a 4K streaming box that lets you stream 4K content from its online store then I'm guessing you could build a PC that could do the same thing now if only Sony will let you access that content from something other than their own proprietary equipment. So the technology is not the issue, right? It's whether the content providers are going to open it up or try to keep everything in their own closed eco-system?


BTW I notice that the Sony streaming box has a 2TB hard drive. What's that for if you're streaming? If you're downloading 4K that's not going to be remotely enough capacity as more 4K content becomes available, and if you're streaming it it's irrelevant. Correct? Or what am I missing?

Sony isn't a streaming device, it's an IP delivered, download and play service. Just like Kaleidescape's store where you download (essentially) Blu-ray rips from their store and play them back locally.

 

[LexInVA]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24481473

HDMI 1.4 (circa 2009) supports 4k resolutions. The problem isn't with the specification, the problem is there simply isn't much hardware out there now that supports 4k video.


HDMI 2.0 adds support for 4k resolutions at framerates above 30p.

I think a lot of current hardware can run at 4k resolutions, the biggest limiting factor for that is with the decoding of compressed video. Most 4k video is compressed with h.265 which is still in its infancy.

H.264 is the current codec for 4K video. H.265 decoders are hitting the streets this year in the form of the latest decoder chips for electronics like TV and boxes, but h.265 won't land in computers until the next gen of GPU hardware. Same for VP9, which is running behind H.265. Both will likely be found in the next generation of GPUs like Volta and Intel's Skylake but not in the current and upcoming chips.

 

[ajhieb]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA  /t/1522506/can-i-4k-on-my-htpc#post_24482073


H.264 is the current codec for 4K video. H.265 decoders are hitting the streets this year in the form of the latest decoder chips for electronics like TV and boxes, but h.265 won't land in computers until the next gen of GPU hardware. Same for VP9, which is running behind H.265. Both will likely be found in the next generation of GPUs like Volta and Intel's Skylake but not in the current and upcoming chips.

Okay. Good to know. Thanks for the clarification/correction.