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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please forgive the simple question. However, I'm obviously an amateur when it comes to AV technology and I'm hoping someone can help me with this very "basic" question.


A bit of background: We've got a downstairs "smallish" room that we use for movies (Onkyo SR703, Def. Tech. Mythos four's/seven/six's, Rocket ULW-10 sub, Oppo 981HD DVD). I love the setup....no problems with this.


The problem is: I just purchased the Onkyo DX-7555 "stand-alone" CD player. When I play this through my SR703, via analog connections in stereo mode, I get sound through my 2 front speakers as well as the sub. However, when I turn on the "pure audio" or "direct" mode on the SR703 (ie to by-pass the video circuitry), I get no sound from the sub (ie the ULW-10 is connected via only connection available on it....single RCA interconnect).


My questions are:

1) In the Onkyo's "Pure audio" or "direct" mode, am I not supposed to hear the sub? Is this by design? If so, would seem to defeat the purpose of having these modes, since can't use the sub?


2) I'll likely move the CD player (DX-7555) upstairs (on main floor) where I'd like to connect it to simply an AMP or stereo receiver to have music on the main floor (ie no TV on main floor...so video not a consideration). My question is: Are sub's typically used in this type of setup? For example: I'm looking at the Onkyo A-9555 stereo AMP. It only has connections for a L & R speaker (ie no sub connection). Are sub's only designed to be used with a 5.1/7.1 AVR (ie mainly for movies).


PS. I'm not looking to debate pro's/con's of dedicated CD player. I'm just confused on how a sub is used for music only setup's and hoping someone can help.
 

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Usually the connection is the key. Sometimes when you try to listen to the music on the 5.1 or 7.1 system the sub won't kick in because usually people use line level connection to connect the sub to the system. This low level connection feeds low frequencies to the sub when watching DVDs, but fails to do so in stereo mode when you listen to CD. The CD is just 2 channel stereo. This is why people connect their subs using two methods high level-using speaker wire and line level connection -using coaxial cable.
 

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Look in your SR703 manual (not in .pdf on Onkyo's site) -- most receivers turn off all Digital Signal Processing (DSP) in "Pure Direct" and similar modes -- that's the point! Separating out a signal to the sub is a DSP function, and so is diabled.


Just keep your SR703 in regualar "stereo" mode and you'll have the sub and your tone controls available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the feedback.


So, if I'm understanding correctly, it looks like I have a couple of issues:


1) Neither the SR703 or the UWL-10 have an option to connect via "hight level: speaker-wire" (ie both only have the option for a coax-line level connection). I know other sub's have the option to connect via both methods. I'm assuming the current "higher end" AVR's to also...not sure though.


2) I see now why "pure audio" and "direct" modes on the SR703 do not output to sub. Seem's like these modes are kind-of useless if they don't allow for sub output....not really sure why anyone would use for music only (ie as these modes are designed for).


I'm still a bit unclear if I connected the SR-7555 CD up to thte A-9555 stereo AMP how this system would work with bass. Since it only has connections for a L & R speaker (ie no sub connection). Do people typically "not" use a sub for a music only configuration that does not employ an AVR (ie with sub connections)?
 

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for myself, I can't imagine not using a sub. Movies or music. Many hardcore audiophiles will debate this to the death. It all depends on your tastes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstofel /forum/post/0


... edit...

I'm still a bit unclear if I connected the SR-7555 CD up to thte A-9555 stereo AMP how this system would work with bass. Since it only has connections for a L & R speaker (ie no sub connection). Do people typically "not" use a sub for a music only configuration that does not employ an AVR (ie with sub connections)?

It actually comes up a lot -- the classic example is someone who buys an integrated tube preamp/amp and a pair of mini-monitors -- and then wants more bass
The only outputs they have are their speaker outputs.


One solution is to get a sub that has speaker level connections -- the SVS SB12-Plus and ACI Force are small, musical subs that have the high level inputs.


Another option is to buy or make a voltage divider circuit. A simple "ideagram":


(A)xx[1k]xx(B)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[9k]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx(C)


The 1k and 9kare resitances in ohms.


If I connect a speaker level signal to (A) and (C), about 1/10th of that total voltage will appear between (A) and (B) --- that's enough of a reduction you could send that signal to your sub's low level input. A commercially available product that does this is at:
http://www.russound.com/accessories.htm , and on the righthand list of items under 'Circuit Modules' click on "ADP1.2 adapter". Look closely at the picture and you will see that this is just a stereo pair of the circuits described above.


If you stop and think about it, there's never been a subwoofer signal recorded in stereo music. Our desire to run our subwoofers, designed to be connected to the dedicated Sub Out of an AVR for the reproduction of movie soundtracks that Do have a dedicated LFE signal, on stereo music, WITHOUT using the processing power of an AVR to synthesize the subwoofer signal, puts us in the same place as pre-AVR audiophiles wanting to add a woofer to their system --- external crossovers, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstofel /forum/post/0



2) I see now why "pure audio" and "direct" modes on the SR703 do not output to sub. Seem's like these modes are kind-of useless if they don't allow for sub output....not really sure why anyone would use for music only (ie as these modes are designed for).


)?

Does not allow using sub does not mean the mode is useless. There is no need to use sub with good speakers that can go low, and this mode allows the purest audio possible the way it is intended for.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstofel /forum/post/0


Please forgive the simple question. However, I'm obviously an amateur when it comes to AV technology and I'm hoping someone can help me with this very "basic" question.


A bit of background: We've got a downstairs "smallish" room that we use for movies (Onkyo SR703, Def. Tech. Mythos four's/seven/six's, Rocket ULW-10 sub, Oppo 981HD DVD). I love the setup....no problems with this.


The problem is: I just purchased the Onkyo DX-7555 "stand-alone" CD player. When I play this through my SR703, via analog connections in stereo mode, I get sound through my 2 front speakers as well as the sub. However, when I turn on the "pure audio" or "direct" mode on the SR703 (ie to by-pass the video circuitry), I get no sound from the sub (ie the ULW-10 is connected via only connection available on it....single RCA interconnect).


My questions are:

1) In the Onkyo's "Pure audio" or "direct" mode, am I not supposed to hear the sub? Is this by design? If so, would seem to defeat the purpose of having these modes, since can't use the sub?


2) I'll likely move the CD player (DX-7555) upstairs (on main floor) where I'd like to connect it to simply an AMP or stereo receiver to have music on the main floor (ie no TV on main floor...so video not a consideration). My question is: Are sub's typically used in this type of setup? For example: I'm looking at the Onkyo A-9555 stereo AMP. It only has connections for a L & R speaker (ie no sub connection). Are sub's only designed to be used with a 5.1/7.1 AVR (ie mainly for movies).


PS. I'm not looking to debate pro's/con's of dedicated CD player. I'm just confused on how a sub is used for music only setup's and hoping someone can help.


I was in a similar situation - setting up a good 2-channel music only system - so I got the Outlaw RR2150 2-channel receiver which has bass management and a subwoofer output. I'm using it as a pre-amp with a 350 watt/channel B&K amp (dual mono) to push a pair of Maggie 1.6s. I've got a HSI VTF-3 MK II subwoofer but I am looking for something a bit faster, maybe a REL T-series or the Vandersteen 2WQ...


Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell /forum/post/0


If you stop and think about it, there's never been a subwoofer signal recorded in stereo music. Our desire to run our subwoofers, designed to be connected to the dedicated Sub Out of an AVR for the reproduction of movie soundtracks that Do have a dedicated LFE signal, on stereo music, WITHOUT using the processing power of an AVR to synthesize the subwoofer signal, puts us in the same place as pre-AVR audiophiles wanting to add a woofer to their system --- external crossovers, etc.

I think a light just went on for me with this and some other comments in this thread. I think I was under a bit of a false assumption that a sub "typically" used in a "music only" setup. Looks like this is not always the case (ie depending on type of main speakers used, etc...). I think I was looking at this purely from the "AVR" point of view. I think I've got some good "new" information now to help me think this through a bit more clearly. Thanks everyone!
 

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The good news is that the digital technology continues to improve in sound quality -- your next receiver should sound even better with DSP left on.


If you decide to pursue external crossovers (add a (sub)woofer to your mains), DSP in pro and pro/am equipment has reportedly closed the gap with opamp and passive capacitor/inductor crossovers, at least in midrange systems. Here's a list of pro music crossovers at Full Compass, sorted by increasing price:
http://www.fullcompass.com/category/...rder=Price-Low


As you can see it does not cost that much these days if you want to play around with x-o'ing the bass out of your mains to dedicated sub(s). Doing this is actually part of a technique called 'direct and redirected bass': you get a sub for each one of your mains (with an x-o) and set your mains to Large. Then you get a separate large sub for the LFE channel.


It's only a hobby --- only a hobby --- only a hobby ... =)
 
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