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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for a starter projector right at $1000-$1200. I don't want to deal with inexpensive DLP projectors with possible "rainbows" or eye fatigue. I'm looking at these two projectors:


Proxima DP2000s Price: $1,049.00

Resolution SVGA (800 x 600)

Brightness 1000 ANSI lumens

Contrast Ratio 400:1

Uniformity --

No. of Colors 16.7 million

Aspect Ratio(s) 4:3; 16:9

Display Tech. LCD; 0.55-inch Polysilicon TFT

Compatibility

Data Signals IBM PC or compatibles (VGA, SVGA, XGA, 1152, SXGA), Apple Macintosh.

Video Signals NTSC, PAL, SECAM, EDTV, SDTV

Video Resolution

H Sync 15 - 100 kHz

V Sync 43.5 - 130 Hz

Dot Clock --

Connectivity

Inputs Composite Video (Single RCA) x 1

S-Video (Mini DIN 4-pin (Y/C)) x 1

Computer, Analog RGB (Standard VGA, mini D-Sub 15-pin) x 1

PS/2 Mouse x 1

USB Mouse x 1

Computer Audio (Stereo mini jack) x 1

Outputs Computer, Analog RGB (Standard VGA, mini D-Sub 15-pin) x 1

Built-in Audio 1 Watt stereo

Projection Lens

Lens Zoom lens with manual focus and manual zoom adjust

Image Size 40 - 200 inches diagonally

Throw Distance Minimum 1.46 m - 8.85 m; throw ratio 1.8-2.15:1

Keystone Corr. Digital keystone correction ±15 degrees

Lens Shift No

Proj. Methods Front/rear, desktop/ceiling


NEC VT460 Price: $1,199.00

Image Quality

Resolution SVGA (800 x 600)

Brightness 1500 ANSI lumens

Contrast Ratio --

Uniformity --

No. of Colors 16.7 million

Aspect Ratio(s) 4:3

Display Tech. 0.7" p-Si TFT active-matrix

Compatibility

Data Signals 800x600 pixels native, up to UXGA with Advanced AccuBlend

Video Signals NTSC, NTSC4.43, PAL, PAL-60, PAL-N, PAL-M, SECAM, HDTV: 1080i, 1080i/50Hz, 720p, 576p, 480p, 480i/60Hz

Video Resolution 1080i, 1080i/50Hz, 720p, 576p, 480p, 480i/60Hz

H Sync 15.0 - 100.0kHz

V Sync 50 - 120Hz

Dot Clock --

Connectivity

Inputs Component RGB (Shares mini D-Sub 15-pin) x 1

Composite Video (Single RCA) x 1

S-Video (Mini DIN 4-pin (Y/C)) x 1

Computer, Analog RGB (Standard VGA, mini D-Sub 15-pin) x 1

RS-232 (Serial) x 1

USB Mouse x 1

Video Audio (RCA x 2) x 2

Computer Audio (Stereo mini jack) x 1

Outputs Computer, Analog RGB (Standard VGA, mini D-Sub 15-pin) x 1

Computer Audio (Stereo mini jack) x 1

Built-in Audio 1.0W Mono

Projection Lens

Lens Manual zoom and focus

Image Size 21 - 300 inches (0.5 - 7.6 m) diagonal

Throw Distance 2.38 - 35.8 ft / 7.3 (Tele) - 10.9 m (Tele)

Keystone Corr. +/- 30 degrees electronic (auto)

Lens Shift --

Proj. Methods Desktop Front and Rear, Ceiling Front and Rear



(1)Is it correct that if plug my DVD player up to the S-video input of either projector, the projector will line-double the 480i signal and display a 480p image?

(2)It is true that betwen these two projectors, only the NEC will accept a 480p input from a DVD player via a component connection?

(4)How is that connection made?

(3)Do I need some sort of adapter? I don't see the standard component connection that is on the back of my HDTV, on the NEC.

(4) Which of these projectors would produce the "better" image on a 7ft. wide screen?

(5)Which of these projectors can be placed further back from a 7' screen? My room is approx. 20' long, and I'd like to place it as far back as possible. I picked a 7' screen because my couch is fixed as 12 ft. from where the screen will be, and 7'x1.75=12.25'.

I'll listen to any more advice you want to give me short of convincing me to get a DLP projector :)


thanks

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
don't want to read all those specs, but add $300 and go with Z1 .....
Did you bother to read my second (or last) sentence? PEOPLE, I don't want to spend more than $1200 and don't want a DLP projector.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Banville

I'm looking for a starter projector right at $1000-$1200. I don't want to deal with inexpensive DLP projectors with possible "rainbows" or eye fatigue. I'm looking at these two projectors:



(1)Is it correct that if plug my DVD player up to the S-video input of either projector, the projector will line-double the 480i signal and display a 480p image?
Yes, it has to since digital projectors are progressive scan devices by nature. How well each projector does this is the trick.

Quote:
(2)It is true that betwen these two projectors, only the NEC will accept a 480p input from a DVD player via a component connection?
No. They will both accept a 480p signal. Only the NEC will accept HDTV signals.
Quote:
(4)How is that connection made?
Via component video, through the HD-15 RGB/component port. You'll need a breakout cable to accomodate the component connection.
Quote:
(3)Do I need some sort of adapter? I don't see the standard component connection that is on the back of my HDTV, on the NEC.
You'll need a breakout cable with three RCA's on one end and an HD-15 on the other. These can be readily purchased or made.
Quote:
(4) Which of these projectors would produce the "better" image on a 7ft. wide screen?
Better is always in the eye of the beholder. I've not seen both projectors, but the NEC has a larger imager and a more lumens. Similar contrast specs. My money is on the NEC.
Quote:
(5)Which of these projectors can be placed further back from a 7' screen? My room is approx. 20' long, and I'd like to place it as far back as possible. I picked a 7' screen because my couch is fixed as 12 ft. from where the screen will be, and 7'x1.75=12.25'.
For a 7' wide screen the Proxima can be as far back as 15.3 ft, the NEC can be a maximum of 11.3 ft back.
Quote:
I'll listen to any more advice you want to give me short of convincing me to get a DLP projector :)
My concerns with both of these projectors are:

-These projectors are business class projectors. This means that the they were designed for maximum lumens and not video performance. For decent performance they will require an progressive scan DVD player, but for best performance they will require a scaler or HTPC that can feed them their native resolution. They will require a color calibration and possible filter to reduce the "blue" push that business class projectors have to increase lumen output.

-Noise, they are 3-6dB noiser than many HT oriented projectors.

-No HDTV capability on the Proxima


Bottom line: These projectors can be pressed into HT service, but you need to be prepared to do some tweaking and provide a scaler/HTPC to get them to perform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
My concerns with both of these projectors are:

-These projectors are business class projectors. This means that the they were designed for maximum lumens and not video performance. For decent performance they will require an progressive scan DVD player
I'll be using a Sony DVP-NS700P progressive scan DVD player :)

Quote:
They will require a color calibration and possible filter to reduce the "blue" push that business class projectors have to increase lumen output.
I've downloaded their manuals from www.projectorpeople.com and they both have extensive picture controls (including color temp). They both have native 4:3 LCD panels, but they both have the ability to adjust their aspect down to 16:9.

Quote:
-No HDTV capability on the Proxima
Do you know they technical reason for this? Is it that it can't receive the signal or that it can't display it?



thanks

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also, since both can recieve the 480p signal, the DVD player's 2/3 pulldown function will remain intact, yes?


thanks

Jim
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Also, since both can recieve the 480p signal, the DVD player's 2/3 pulldown function will remain intact, yes?


thanks

Jim
Yes, the progressive scan DVD player's inverse telecine (3/2 pulldown) will be used to create whole frames from the interlaced fields stored on the DVD. The projector's scaler engine will still be used to "fit" this 720 x 480 frame onto the 800 x 600 imager. That's where the outboard scaler or HTPC shine.


There is normally additionally circuitry required to handle HDTV which uses a tri-level sync and a higher horizontal scan rate than 480p. The Proxima is apparently lacking this.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Did you bother to read my second (or last) sentence? PEOPLE, I don't want to spend more than $1200 and don't want a DLP projector.
There you go. That's really how to take advantage of all the knowledge and expertise available on this forum. First you ask what was not possible 6 months ago - a projector with adequate performance for a home theatre for $1200. Next you throw a bunch of useless specs into your post - most here are familiar with what might work in a home theatre environment. You could have just asked what LCD projector $1200 or less would you recommend. Its obvious you haven't spent any time reading through this forum or chose to ignore what you read. But, worst of all you choose to belittle someone offering what many here would perceive as very legitimate suggestion.


Take my advice, which I doubt you will. If you want help here, don't start with an attitude and don't be insulting to those who offer their suggestions.


That said, the VT 460 appears (do a search on VT460) to be a reasonable choice. For your budget though, I'd seriously consider a CRT projector like the Sony 1031 which can be had for around $500 and put the rest of your budget into a transcoder and/or HTPC to drive it with.
 

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Marvin,


That was a little harsh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
That was a little harsh!
YES it was :(

I HAVE been reading this forum for a short while recently when I decided I wanted a projector. THAT, along with reviews I've read in magazines, has caused me to RULE OUT an inexpensive DLP for my needs. "Worthless specs"? How about the next time you buy a piece of home theater gear, just look/listen to it and ignore the specs! I think NOT!

Quote:
That said, the VT 460 appears (do a search on VT460) to be a reasonable choice. For your budget though, I'd seriously consider a CRT projector like the Sony 1031 which can be had for around $500 and put the rest of your budget into a transcoder and/or HTPC to drive it with
Is the Sony as small and light as one of the LCD projectors I listed? If not, it will not fill my needs. My needs are a small, light, LOW MAINTENANCE (NO convergence & geometry adjustments over time), reliable, under $1200 projector that will accept a 480p signal and display a "decent" (i.e., watchable) picture on a 7' screen. I honestly didn't think I needed to spell all this out since my post clearly showed what type of projector I was interested in, and what kind I was not interested in. "New" CRT and LCD projectors are really in different leagues in terms of price, size and maintenance, are they not? I wouldn't suggest a Ford Expedition to someone looking at a Ford Focus stationwagon.
 

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yes I read your second sentence . But if you only want to spend $1000 on a PJ don't bother !!!! After a while with it you will regret you ever bought one and you will WISH you took my advice !!! 400 Contrast ? R U KIDDING ME and for DVD viewing with not even a component input ?


get second job , make $300 and buy Z1, otherwise don't bother ... Contrast matters and you don't know HOW MUCH !!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Did you bother to read my second (or last) sentence? PEOPLE, I don't want to spend more than $1200 and don't want a DLP projector.
 

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I agree. Find the extra 300 bucks and get the Z1. As has been stated by LetMeIn, contrast ratio is a huge factor in quality video and the Z1 is great in this respect. I know because I went from the Ae100 to the Z1 and the difference is quite a lot. I used to think the importance of a high contrast ratio was over-rated but it isn't. It plays such a huge role in image quality.


But hey, if you are deadset on 1000-1200 price range by all means get an inferior projector and in a little while wish that you would have spent the extra 300 bucks.


Another option you could try is to go for a used Ae100 which despite being inferior to the Sanyo Z1 in every way except lamp life, is still a very good pj for the price. Don't know if the AE200 has dropped in price but if it has, it could be close to 1200 and would be a beter choice than the Ae100..
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
For those looking at the NEC VT460, here's a very positive review... http://videosystems.com/ar/video_str...orld/index.htm

"Video quality ... took big steps up with S-Video and component video inputs. 480p DVD video looked even better. One of the reasons is NEC's excellent color management--with the drive and bias controls, you can tune this projector to a real neutral D6500, unlike many other LCD boxes. 720p and HDTV were exceptional...The VT460 doesn't clip too much HD bandwidth at high frequencies--I've seen worse performances on $8,000+ home theater projectors. Brightness uniformity was very good at 79%, and color temperature uniformity was outstanding at +/- 274 degrees K. All in all, this is a nice package of features and performance in a projector that would seem reasonable with a price tag between $2,000 and $3,000. At $995, it's an outright steal!"


And from projectorcentral.com...

"The NEC VT460 and Epson PowerLite 30c at 16% and 13% of the price of the Toshiba ($9,999) respectively, offer a remarkable image for the price. If budget is your issue, these products are worth a look."


Were the reviewers who wrote these reviews on crack? Seriously? Why would a professional reviewer recommend this projector if it wasn't worth the time of his readers? Wouldn't he say, "Don't bother"?

Quote:
400 Contrast ? R U KIDDING ME and for DVD viewing with not even a component input ?
Apparently they both have component inputs via the RGB/15 pin plug. Isn't the 400:1 contrast ratio just one of those "useless specs" that marvinholland mentioned? :)

Quote:
get second job , make $300 and buy Z1
There sure are some nasty people around here :(

Are you familiar with the term "budget"? It the context of me buying a projector, it is a reasonable anount that I am willing to spend. Is it ALL I can afford? No! I COULD buy a $5000 projector if I chose. I spent $3000 on my 53" Sony HiScan TV when they first came out about 3 years ago.

I may buy a DLP projector WHEN they solve the rainbow issue at a $1000 pricepoint, which shouldn't be long since marvinholland said "a projector with adequate performance for a home theatre for $1200" wasn't even possible 6 months ago :)


EDIT: Okay! How about this, if you want to help me out by answering my questions regarding the projectors I'm looking at (NEC & Proxima), or you want to suggest another LCD projector under $1200, please do! I would appreciate the friendly advice :) If you want to insult me or tell me that the X1 is the messiah or that I can't possibly get a decent picture from any "new" LCD projector under $1200 (which flies in the face of the above mentioned professional reviews), in the words of letMeIn, "Dont' bother" ":(
 

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well Im talking about Z1 which is LCD , don't know why you keep talking about DLP and X1 .. Second, you compare my opionion of adding $300 to your budget to buying $5000 projector ??? haha come on dude


but seriously , once you buy one of those PJs your next Thread on this forum will be " What should be my next upgrade be ? " ..... Just don't say I didn't warn you . Im not telling you to buy $3000 + projector, Im just saying just add $300 and buy Z1 WHICH IS AN LCD PJ. You can't do it now, wait .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My bad. I keep confusing Z1 with X1. Just like I was confused when I read where someone referred to wheel speed on an LT240. I thought they were referring to the Infocus LP240, which isn't DLP. I think they were referring to a DLP NEC projector. These model numbers can get confusing if the brand isn't mentioned.


I could do a search on Z1, but the dang search function won't allow a search based on only two characters :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Okay, the Sanyo has half the lumens, but twice the contrast ratio. Why? And what does the Sanyo's lens shift function do? I see it has 16:9 LCD panels. How is it better than having a 4:3 panel that can do 16:9? Does the Sanyo have any known quirks (banding, video noise, etc.)? THANKS!


Jim
 

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Hey Jim, I remember you from back in the early HS10 (RPTV, not projector) days! I still have my KP-53HS10, but have since added a VPL-HS10 for DVD viewing on a "big" screen.


Anyway, I'll answer those questions that I can with regard to the Sanyo Z1. The Sanyo is rated at 700 ANSI lumens (probably lower in economy mode). This is brighter than my HS10 is in its "Cinema Black" mode (about 400 lumens IIRC) and that's plenty bright for DVD viewing in a darkened room. The Sanyo's good contrast ratio will really, really help with dark scenes, too. On projectors with sub-par contrast ratios, blacks will only look dark grey and shadow details will be completely lost. This can be very distracting, and if you're sensitive to it, can really take you out of the movie-watching experience. For your situation, unless you're trying to drive a really big screen, I'd be more concerned with contrast ratio than with lumen output.


The Sanyo's lens shift is a pretty nifty feature. It performs the same function as digital keystoning does, but it does it optically so that the picture quality doesn't suffer. Basically it allows you quite a bit of placement flexibility.


16:9 panels allow you to use the full panel resolution to deliver a widescreen picture, as opposed to watching widescreen movies on a 4:3 projector, where a sizeable amount of the projector's resolution is wasted on black bars. Since you plan to watch DVD with your new PJ, this is a critical consideration. Basically, if you go with a PJ that has 16:9 panels (as opposed to an 800x600 4:3 PJ), the active picture area will have a higher pixel density, and because of this, the image will appear sharper, better defined, and with less pixelization (all else being equal).


Since I have a Sony PJ, I can't speak to any quirks with the Sanyo. Based on what I have read here, though, I'll second the advice of the others...save up an extra $300 and go with the Sanyo Z1 which was designed with home theater in mind.
 

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Jim, I've had 4 projectors now (in the space of about 10 months) and I can truly tell you that good "Contrast Ratio" is the most important quality of a home theatre projector. The next one after that (for me) is resolution although others might have different views on this one. You simply cannot get a real movie-like experience with low contrast ratio resulting in grey blacks and a lack of shadow details. To this extent, I'd second the above opinions to go with the Sanyo Z1 or indeed the Panasonic L200U if you can get it much cheaper than the Z1.


Xander
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks guys! I'll probably poney up the extra money and get the X..., no... Z1 :)
 
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