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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I wasn't sure if this belonged in the Rear Projection Units section or the Calibration section; my apologies in advance if this is in fact the wrong area for the query...

I am still (rather successfully, save for a lamp change in all the time we've had it) running a Sony SXRD rear-projection display circa 2008 as my primary viewing screen, but from the very beginning something has bothered me about this set with regard to picture settings and when they're adjusted for our Cable Box input (component; "Video 5" slot). While my "Video 6" (HDMI) input has been adjusted via setup discs for Blu-ray and DVD playback (source being an Oppo BDP-83 BD player), with corrections made for Sharpness, Contrast, Color, etc., I have always been stumped with how to adjust for the cable box input of the set...

Just last night and the night before, I tried fiddling again with some of the basic picture settings while watching cable transmissions -- both standard def and high def -- and for the life of me, I cannot see ANY changes being made when I adjust certain picture parameters, notably SHARPNESS. To be exact, I tried running the Sharpness control QUICKLY from minimum to maximum while keeping a fairly static image on the screen, and there is absolutely NO change to the image to my eyes. Yet, on my HDMI input, when I calibrated for Sharpness using the HD Essentials Blu-ray test pattern, you could clearly see the white lines getting "fuzzy" and "busy" as you adjust the Sharpness control for optimum setting, as you should...

Still, on my Video 5/Component input for the cable box, I can't see the Sharpness changing one way or another; someone once suggested to me that this could be due to the upconversion the TV is doing to the incoming 1080i signal from the set top box (to the TV's native 1080p resolution)...but whatever the case may be, how do I establish Sharpness for this input/source? Should I just leave it at the default 50% setting, where I have it now?

Further -- is there a good way to set parameters like Color and Brightness for a cable input without using test signal generators or hooking a disc player up to the input? Is there something I should be looking for in broadcast material that can aid in setting these controls?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Anyone? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Okay...let me ask it this way...


Is it at all possible that perhaps the COMPONENT input for my display's VIDEO 5 bank -- which my cable box is hooked up to -- doesn't allow for manipulation of such controls as Sharpness? I've read that some TVs simply won't adjust certain parameters based on input type (HDMI, component, etc.)...is this possible?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Can anyone help with this Sharpness question?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Really?


There's NO ONE here on AVS that can tell me why my Sharpness control doesn't seem to make a difference on my cable/component input but I can see a Sharpness pattern changing when I use the HD Essentials Blu-ray calibration disc via my HDMI/BD player input?? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
you answered your question.
comp rgb on some tvs act that way

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread, Cal; I didn't receive an update message...


But I didn't "know" I was "answering my own question;" is it really that simple, that the component input of my display does NOT alter Sharpness one way or the other? Is it possible that it allows for HDMI adjustment but not component?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Addendum:


Can anyone with SXRD experience confirm if the component input(s) doesn't allow for an altered image with regard to the SHARPNESS setting?


When I make adjustments for Sharpness on my cable box input (component), I see NO difference in the image, looking carefully, going from minimum to maximum on the control...
 

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There could be many reasons why not but it seems obvious that what you are seeing is real.

My old CRT TV has aspect ratio control but that only works on composite input or 480i component input. All other resolutions including DVI input are all displayed in widescreen format with no adjustability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There could be many reasons why not but it seems obvious that what you are seeing is real.

Indeed, Cheryl, it's real; but what are the "many reasons" this could be? And if it's the case that the Sharpness doesn't work on this input, what should I leave the control set to?

My old CRT TV has aspect ratio control but that only works on composite input or 480i component input. All other resolutions including DVI input are all displayed in widescreen format with no adjustability.

How old was the TV?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello,


Are there any professional calibrators here that may be able to lend some insight as to why I don't see my display's Sharpness control making any difference -- one extreme to the other -- when I'm in my cable box's component input for the display? With my HDMI input ("Video 6" from my BD player) I can clearly see the Sharpness pattern on the HD Essentials Blu-ray changing as I adjust the Sharpness control; thus, I have it set to "25" out of "100" on my Sony SXRD's Sharpness control based on the results I get on the calibration disc...


But why don't I see the Sharpness making ANY difference when I switch to my cable box/component input?
 

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Indeed, Cheryl, it's real; but what are the "many reasons" this could be? And if it's the case that the Sharpness doesn't work on this input, what should I leave the control set to?




How old was the TV?
It was one of the last CRT TVs that Samsung produced, sorry I am not sure how old (a Stanford student sold it to me for $50 along with most of the rest of her belongings when she graduated and moved back home to the midwest). I suspect it was from the 2005 era and it was my first HDTV (actually it is not even true 720P resolution but you get the point).

Here is a similar/same one:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-30-in...p/B000P4K5JM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

My neighbor is still using it in his living room and the picture looks great (for CRT anyway). He is not big on A/V and living on meager pension so it suits his purposes perfectly, as does the SD 27" tube of mine in his bedroom.

If the adjustments make no difference then probably they are disabled. All the analog inputs are digitized for SXRD anyway so maybe they just figured that with analog source there was no point putting in that sort of processing effort.

If you use an upscaling cable box with HDMI output you should be able to get around that limitation in your TV. Is there some reason you are not already doing that?

Maybe you can also use an upscaling receiver. Either way, from my impressions of cable you may be disappointed with the picture no matter what you do. Seems that all broadcast material is compressed in some way to save bandwidth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It was one of the last CRT TVs that Samsung produced, sorry I am not sure how old (a Stanford student sold it to me for $50 along with most of the rest of her belongings when she graduated and moved back home to the midwest). I suspect it was from the 2005 era and it was my first HDTV (actually it is not even true 720P resolution but you get the point).

Here is a similar/same one:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-30-in...p/B000P4K5JM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

My neighbor is still using it in his living room and the picture looks great (for CRT anyway). He is not big on A/V and living on meager pension so it suits his purposes perfectly, as does the SD 27" tube of mine in his bedroom.

Got-cha.

If the adjustments make no difference then probably they are disabled.

So, in other words only the HDMI inputs are "active" with regard to control? But the other parameters like Color, Tint, Contrast, etc. are fully adjustable via component...why would only Sharpness not work?


All the analog inputs are digitized for SXRD anyway so maybe they just figured that with analog source there was no point putting in that sort of processing effort.

What do you mean?

If you use an upscaling cable box with HDMI output you should be able to get around that limitation in your TV. Is there some reason you are not already doing that?

Not sure what you mean here, either; my cable box outputs a maximum resolution of 1080i, which my SXRD then upscales to native 1080p...
 

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So, in other words only the HDMI inputs are "active" with regard to control? But the other parameters like Color, Tint, Contrast, etc. are fully adjustable via component...why would only Sharpness not work?{/quote]

Who knows? Laziness? Schedule? Irrelevancy? I have written code and designed circuitry for several large corporations and the only thing that matters more than making money is... making money. No matter where you go, the company motto is, "Ship it!" because waiting a few more weeks for the design to solidify is tantamount to corporate suicide. Competitors that hit the market window in the 'sweet spot' eat your lunch.

What do you mean?
If the input is analog maybe whoever made the decision about "Ship it!" decided that analog is not important enough to bother with a complete feature set. Just guessing...

Not sure what you mean here, either; my cable box outputs a maximum resolution of 1080i, which my SXRD then upscales to native 1080p...
So the way to get around that is to use a home theater receiver that will upscale for you before the signal gets to your TV. Then you can use the sharpness controls in the receiver (if it has such) or in the TV. From your posts it seems you are using your TV as the input switch and in that case you just have to live without the sharpness control.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Who knows? Laziness? Schedule? Irrelevancy? I have written code and designed circuitry for several large corporations and the only thing that matters more than making money is... making money. No matter where you go, the company motto is, "Ship it!" because waiting a few more weeks for the design to solidify is tantamount to corporate suicide. Competitors that hit the market window in the 'sweet spot' eat your lunch.

While I'm not questioning your competency or opinion, I would have to think there's something more at play here; perhaps I will have to track down other owners of this generation SXRD and ask if their component inputs don't work with every control, either (unless it was a specific hiccup with my particular set as it came off the assembly line; always a possibility).

If the input is analog maybe whoever made the decision about "Ship it!" decided that analog is not important enough to bother with a complete feature set. Just guessing...

I see; still seems suspicious to me -- especially since the other parameters, like I said, such as Color, Tint, Contrast etc. seem to work...

So the way to get around that is to use a home theater receiver that will upscale for you before the signal gets to your TV. Then you can use the sharpness controls in the receiver (if it has such) or in the TV. From your posts it seems you are using your TV as the input switch and in that case you just have to live without the sharpness control.

I see; well, I'm not running the cable box through the receiver and don't plan to, nor would I really want to adjust picture parameters via an AVR (just preference) so I guess I'm stuck at wondering why the Sharpness doesn't work....interestingly, I am using, I suppose, the TV as the input switch as all I have connected to it is this HD cable box and a Blu-ray player (running via HDMI through an Onkyo AVR)...
 

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While I'm not questioning your competency or opinion, I would have to think there's something more at play here; perhaps I will have to track down other owners of this generation SXRD and ask if their component inputs don't work with every control, either (unless it was a specific hiccup with my particular set as it came off the assembly line; always a possibility).




I see; still seems suspicious to me -- especially since the other parameters, like I said, such as Color, Tint, Contrast etc. seem to work...




I see; well, I'm not running the cable box through the receiver and don't plan to, nor would I really want to adjust picture parameters via an AVR (just preference) so I guess I'm stuck at wondering why the Sharpness doesn't work....interestingly, I am using, I suppose, the TV as the input switch as all I have connected to it is this HD cable box and a Blu-ray player (running via HDMI through an Onkyo AVR)...

Interesting problem.

The sharpness function should work for all inputs. Also keep in mind that each input is usually independent from each other unless it is designed to share set-up values as designed by the manufacturer. I can only assume that the cable box does not have a HDMI output. Try switching the cable to another input, say from #5 to #4. You could also attach your DVD player via component cables to the component inputs on your TV and run the test disc to evaluate if the issues go away. By what you have conveyed the DVD player does not exhibit any issues but the cable box might. With this switching process you will be using a source device that you know that works and if the TV behaves properly while the DVD is connected to either input #4 or #5, then the culprit is the cable box. My last suggestion then would be to make adjustments to the service menu of the cable box. Many people do not realize that one exists. The default for a cable box is 480i. Change this to 1080i. Make sure that the colorspace is also at it's proper setting. If you toggle on the Dolby function while only using a stereo output the sound level will diminish by 50% as sound tracks that were being combined are now going to speakers that don't exist.

To recap, you know the DVD player works, switching the sources around will tell if there is any issues with the TV and eliminating two out of the three, points to the last device; the cable box.

To get into the service menu, the information can be found within the manual for the cable box.

The up-conversion is not the issue.

Lastly, when adjusting the sharpness, do it from the viewing position not up close like many do.

Let me know how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Interesting problem.

Thanks for your input, Randal.

The sharpness function should work for all inputs.

That's what I thought as well...that's why I am so confused.


Also keep in mind that each input is usually independent from each other unless it is designed to share set-up values as designed by the manufacturer.

Yes, I'm aware of that; my TV actually allows INDIVIDUAL adjusting of EACH input across PICTURE MODES...it doesn't lock you in to one general setting matrix for all...


I can only assume that the cable box does not have a HDMI output.

It DOES in fact have an HDMI output, but I've always run the cable boxes via component for some reason; I suppose I could try an HDMI link...I was just curious as to why the Sharpness isn't working with this one input (using actual broadcast moving material).


Try switching the cable to another input, say from #5 to #4. You could also attach your DVD player via component cables to the component inputs on your TV and run the test disc to evaluate if the issues go away. By what you have conveyed the DVD player does not exhibit any issues but the cable box might.

The source in question is actually an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player that I use for DVD and Blu-ray playback; but yes, when this player is connected to the "Video 6" HDMI input of my display (running through an Onkyo AVR as passthrough) I can clearly see the Sharpness change when using setup test discs and their patterns...


With this switching process you will be using a source device that you know that works and if the TV behaves properly while the DVD is connected to either input #4 or #5, then the culprit is the cable box. My last suggestion then would be to make adjustments to the service menu of the cable box. Many people do not realize that one exists. The default for a cable box is 480i. Change this to 1080i. Make sure that the colorspace is also at it's proper setting. If you toggle on the Dolby function while only using a stereo output the sound level will diminish by 50% as sound tracks that were being combined are now going to speakers that don't exist.

My cable box is DEFINITELY outputting 1080i, as confirmed by my SXRD's incoming signal indicator; the TV then upscales the signal to 1080p based on its native resolution...

To recap, you know the DVD player works, switching the sources around will tell if there is any issues with the TV and eliminating two out of the three, points to the last device; the cable box.

To get into the service menu, the information can be found within the manual for the cable box.

The up-conversion is not the issue.

Lastly, when adjusting the sharpness, do it from the viewing position not up close like many do.

Let me know how it goes.

I will try and find the service menu for the box...thanks.
 

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The source in question is actually an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player that I use for DVD and Blu-ray playback; but yes, when this player is connected to the "Video 6" HDMI input of my display (running through an Onkyo AVR as passthrough) I can clearly see the Sharpness change when using setup test discs and their patterns...
Since you're familiar with the behaviour of the BDP-83 when connected to the TV's HDMI input, you can temporarily connect the the player's Component Video outputs to the TV; this should "prove" conclusively whether the issue is with your TV's Component Video inputs, or with your Cable Box. However, I really can't think of anything that the Cable Box can do to "disable" the Sharpness adjustment of the TV.

There are two possibilities that I can think of:
1. The TV does not allow sharpness adjustments of the Component Video inputs. This is very unlikely, and even if it were the case, any "reasonably designed" equipment should grey out the adjustment, rather than let you change the value but ignore the changes.
2. The source material from the Cable Box has an inherently low sharpness and any adjustment effects are not very noticeable.
 

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Thank you for your response.

As I stated before, connect the DVD player up to the TV utilizing component cables. This is the quickest and cheapest way to determine if the inputs on TV are working properly. Be sure to initiate the settings in the DVD player to route the signal through the component cables instead of the HDMI. I see that Dominic Chan agrees with this method.

Every input will allow for the sharpness function, if it doesn't it is probably broken.

I am curious as to why you would not have as many source devices run HDMI as a pose to component? Most people would run as much as they can using HDMI. Not only does it help eliminate cable clutter but when the cable programming offers 5.1 surround sound this will only work via HDMI.

If you forward the manufacturer and the model of the cable box I might ba able to assist you better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you for your response, Dominic.


2. The source material from the Cable Box has an inherently low sharpness and any adjustment effects are not very noticeable.

I'm thinking THIS is likely the culprit...but I swear it seems like that Sharpness control is making NO -- not "little" -- changes to the picture structure...:mad:
 
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