Get an exclusive sneak peek into our new project. >>> Click Here
Our native mobile app has a new name: Fora Communities. Learn more.

Can U plz explain Toroidal benefits?

5695 Views 53 Replies 18 Participants Last post by cfraser, Jun 21, 2008

a1sy

Discussion Starter · Jun 17, 2008

A lot of discussion here and Manufacturing advertising about toroidal transformers in their receivers or Pre/Pro.

How do you think transformer affect the SQ?

Thanks

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

Garman

· #2 · Jun 17, 2008

2

The can of worms has just been re-opened!

a1sy, or we could go down the road that digital Amps are better.. Digital Amps and analog Amps do sound different to my ears, and I guess that's what counts. Not sure how it affects the SQ, but Toroidal transformers can sound different, this is an opinion of course.

Here is a old article I still had bookmarked and it is still a good read, considering the the guy does a good job of explaining it, so almost everyone can understand.

Right link, last one posted was the wrong one,

thanks jas681312!

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb071998.htm

See less See more

cavu

· #3 · Jun 17, 2008

The main advantages of toroids over 'regular' transformers are:

smaller size (about half)
lower weight (about half)
less mechanical hum (making them superior in audio amplifiers)
lower exterior magnetic field (about one tenth)
low off-load losses (making them more efficient in standby circuits)
single-bolt mounting, and
greater choice of shapes.

The main disadvantages are:

higher cost and
limited rating.

Note: SQ isn't on either list.

See less See more

Chu Gai

· #4 · Jun 17, 2008

Garman, how could you take anything seriously from that link? This is a guy who talks about squeezing the IEC connector on the power cord affecting high frequencies, wooden tuning blocks, etc. Blackburn is an idiot.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu /forum/post/14099316

The main advantages of toroids over 'regular' transformers are:

smaller size (about half)

lower weight (about half)

less mechanical hum (making them superior in audio amplifiers)

lower exterior magnetic field (about one tenth)

low off-load losses (making them more efficient in standby circuits)

single-bolt mounting, and

greater choice of shapes.

The main disadvantages are:

higher cost and

limited rating.

Note: SQ isn't on either list.

Finally, I read something usefull ! Thank you!

I am getting sick to read in a lot of thread that people like the SQ of their Amp/Receivers/PrePro with Toroidal transformers.

Note: There are good regular transformers around with less mechanical hum as well. I build some transformers and found some of them really have a good HW to eliminate the hum. But I agree toroidals takes less space and more efficient. I don't see how they will affect SQ.

oztech

· #6 · Jun 17, 2008

Almost every high end piece has them.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech /forum/post/14099950

Almost every high end piece has them.

So, does it improve SQ? Or manufacture install toroidals because they are more efficient and that's why can be a little smaller?

I don't have anything against Toroidal transformers. I do beleive their are not improve SQ in any way.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman /forum/post/14099239

The can of worms has just been re-opened!

a1sy, or we could go down the road that digital Amps are better.. Digital Amps and analog Amps do sound different to my ears, and I guess that's what counts. But digital Amps are just starting to get more popular and lets not forget tubes. Not sure how it affects the SQ, but Toroidal transformers do sound different.

Here is a old article I still had bookmarked and it is still a good read, considering the the guy does a good job of explaining it, so almost everyone can understand.

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb091998.htm

How they sound different? Better or worse?

See less See more

rnatalli

· #9 · Jun 17, 2008

"Digital" is an incorrect terming of Class D amplifiers. And some Class D amplifiers use toroidal power supplies like the Emotiva DMR-1.

oztech

· #10 · Jun 17, 2008

Could you imagine the size of an Anthem p5 if it did not have toroidal transformers.

Jakeman02

· #11 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by a1sy /forum/post/14100127

How they sound different? Better or worse?

Toroidal transformers alone will not improve or degrade sound quality. When implemented properly with other high quality parts, that's another story. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

You can put Toroidal transformers in a low end Sony and it's still going to sound like a low end Sony.

oztech

· #12 · Jun 17, 2008

What i have found on a couple of rec/amps with a high kv toroidal is large caps and

numerous output transistors per channel and seems to be the only ones out there

able to supply a lower than 4ohm output even down to 1 ohm in certain situations.

DonoMan

· #13 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 /forum/post/14100170

You can put Toroidal transformers in a low end Sony and it's still going to sound like a low end Sony.

Which is going to sound like anything else.

Jakeman02

· #14 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan /forum/post/14100248

Which is going to sound like anything else.

That's a matter of opinion and the debate will roll on throughout the ages.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 /forum/post/14100286

That's a matter of opinion and the debate will roll on throughout the ages.

Yes and no.

The reason I started this thread,because I see a lot of people beleive in "Toroidal sound quality".

There are 2 ways to go - beleive in whatever you want (or feel comfortable to beleive) OR beleive in the facts based on electronics knoweledge and experience.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech /forum/post/14100230

What i have found on a couple of rec/amps with a high kv toroidal is large caps and

numerous output transistors per channel and seems to be the only ones out there

able to supply a lower than 4ohm output even down to 1 ohm in certain situations.

Should I challenge everyone here?

How is Toroidal transformer responsible for your output 4 or 1 Ohm?

If you would use another type of transformer with right power (VA), would it do the same job, considering you use the same Caps and transistors?

See less See more

oztech

· #17 · Jun 17, 2008

I still trust my ears and I will admit the placebo affect does come into play.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 /forum/post/14100170

Toroidal transformers alone will not improve or degrade sound quality. When implemented properly with other high quality parts, that's another story. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

You can put Toroidal transformers in a low end Sony and it's still going to sound like a low end Sony.

Agree, but the same we can say about traditional transformer.

a1sy

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech /forum/post/14100467

I still trust my ears and I will admit the placebo affect does come into play.

That's exactly the case !!!

See less See more

penngray

· #20 · Jun 17, 2008

Quote:
because I see a lot of people beleive in "Toroidal sound quality".

lol, you will see this long after this discussion, people like to believe in lots of things, most dont have a clue but they still like what they believe. Nothing will change.

Im not saying Toroidal SQ is good or bad, just saying that people convince themselves of things in the AV world all the time, even if it isnt sceintifically valid.

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.