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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey all,

As we all know, MS is abandoning us loyal WMC users by not putting WMC into Windows 10. I am not sure if this is possible, but, figured if we could get it to work on a build of Windows 10 we might be able to import it into the RTM when released.

With this being said, the current ISO that you get for the Preview/Insider of Windows 10, has the eHome files in it and if you modify the iso before you install, you can actually get it to install WMC BUT, there is major problems with this.

-It will report as Windows 8.1 with WMC but, IS Windows 10
-IT CAN NOT be activated even with a legal 8.1 WMC key.
-it will not get preview updates (to newer builds)

Here is a image of it running in 10074 (the newest build at this point)


The method to do this is right here.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88241#p88241

So, I tried this method, and I have a Windows 10 10074 32 bit build with WMC installed (VM) and it DOES run and work. With the issues I have listed above.

Here is proof running from my VM
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=a319be943bc0dd61&id=A319BE943BC0DD61%2110725&v=3&ithint=photo,JPG&authkey=!AN7Q6FFhBnGBn9k

So, I have built 2 VMs, one with WMC installed, one with the strait ISO with no modifications. I have tried to copy over files and registry settings and hitting security issues.

Anyone want to try to help out here, Maybe this could work, my key thing was not kicking off activation of any type making it like a 3rd party program but, at this point I am not sure it can be done.

This is the progress so far...and what has been done
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8779

Not sure if this is even possible but, if there was a way to do it and working 100%, it would be nice to see (supported hardware, performance, security of Windows 10 with WMC on it).

If anyone thinks they can help or has any ideas, feel free to drop in, maybe this could be done.

Thoughts ?
 

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One of the reasons WMC was only in select versions of Windows because of the licensing costs for MPEG2 and AC3. It was one reason DVD playback hasn't always been automatic. I'm not sure about MPEG2, but Dolby was dropped as a standard feature in W8 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-did-microsoft-cut-dolby-out-of-windows-8-2011-8

Paying for the WMC add on in W8 kind of made sense, since they were passing the cost of those decoders onto us.

As you probably know, if you try using another decoder (like lav) for TV functions then WMC will throw you errors on cable tv.

So I'd imagine the only way WMC could ever be hacked into W10 would be if it includes support for those codecs, which I highly doubt.
 

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I simply don't understand why anyone needs WMC in win10 that badly. If you want to watch cable TVs, stay with Win8 or Win7. They still works and legally supported.


There are just too many legal problems with this approach. It is the equivalent of piracy, IMO.
 

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The short answer is "no" you can't.

For the reasons mentioned above, and many, many others as well. People have been trying to "hack" WMC into various other non-WMC oses for years (mainly Server 2008, WHS 2011, Server 2012, etc) and generally it's been a miserable failure simply because MS had the foresight to recognize people might try to do things like this and took measures to prevent it.

WMC isn't just a program, it's an OS component, and like most optional OS components (or in the case of Server OSes, "Server Roles") it isn't necessarily valid in every version of the OS. Windows actively checks to make sure that any components or roles are properly licensed for the OS before it allows them to run.

The big hurdle isn't getting all of the files copies over, or getting everything setup properly in the GAC or getting all of the permissions right, or getting all of the components registered, or getting the necessary services setup properly (but of course you would still have to do all of those things) the big hurdle is tricking Windows into thinking that it should allow WMC to run at all.

But wait! You might say. I can use the Windows 8 key to get it installed just like the guide says above, and that's true you can. And what that appears to be doing is using a validation loophole to confuse Win10 into thinking it's Win8 which yea, it lets WMC run now, but it also breaks a bunch of other stuff, and that's the problem you're going to run into. Pretty much anything you do to convince Windows that it should allow WMC to run is going to break a bunch of other stuff.

As noted above, if you need WMC that bad, don't install Win10.
 

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I simply don't understand why anyone needs WMC in win10 that badly. If you want to watch cable TVs, stay with Win8 or Win7. They still works and legally supported.


There are just too many legal problems with this approach. It is the equivalent of piracy, IMO.
This. There are too many things broken in WMC for Windows 8.1 so I never saw the sense in making the switch. Considering that it's included in Win 7 Home Premium for less than half the cost of Win 8 Pro it makes no economic sense to go with Win 8.1 unless you also plan to use the PC for desktop purposes. All of my HTPCs are strictly for HTPC use. The OS that runs in the background is completely irrelevant when it comes to using WMC. Not only do I have no desire or need to go with Win 8.1, the lack of WMC in Win 10 just makes me want to avoid it that much more. I'll probably check it out for desktop use, but that's where it ends for me.

It all boils down to when and if Microsoft will turn off the switch on providing guide data. When that day comes it just means current WMC users will have to make a decision. Fortunately, there are lots of alternatives available. The only stumbling block for some will be whether their provider is flagging lots of channels. If they're not flagged then they go with another front end/back end setup using Kodi, MythTV, Next PVR, Media Portal, SageTV and probably a few others. Otherwise, they can stick with WMC and import guide data from a different source, such as Schedules Direct, using Big Screen EPG.

It's not the end of the world for WMC users.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Very Valid points, Thanks. I posted this to really see what the thoughts on it was. It does sound like a waste of time now, figured I would play but, it clearly wont work (it's licensed at the Kernel level anyway). I tried over a night or two just to see if it would work (just wondering anyway)

As for being a built in part of Windows, MAYBE. When Windows 8 came out, and there was NO WMC yet (it was not announced for a while after 8 came out), a 3rd party RIPPED Windows 7's WMC and put it in an installer. I have a copy of this software and on a Windows 8 box, it does work (I have TESTED it with some QAM tuners but, did not test cablecard or extenders ).

Here is proof of the installer...

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=a319be943bc0dd61&id=A319BE943BC0DD61%2110729&v=3&ithint=photo,JPG&authkey=!AL3OKLwb_OGdCnA

and it does clearly work on a system with out Windows Media Center license or key on it. This is why it crossed my mind to attempt this...

This app installs on Windows 10 but, does not work.. It would of been nice to get the performance boost of 10 over 7 and get the Windows 7 MCE in it....
 

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It would of been nice to get the performance boost of 10 over 7 and get the Windows 7 MCE in it....
Any performance boost would be lost on WMC users unless you're transcoding in the background. For DVR use or video playback you wouldn't see any noticeable benefit.

Even if you were able to get WMC working successfully in Win 10, you'd still be in the same boat as any other WMC user. It might not even be possible to use any guide data import apps to work in Win 10 due to incompatibility. I'm not seeing any benefit other than the personal satisfaction to actually do it.
 

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Same thoughts. Even with Transcoding, it is more of CPU resource bound than OS inefficiency. Win10 might be slightly better than Win8 in day to day desktop operations, but certainly won't be that noticeable. The only real change is the UI, But when you use WMC, the UI part doesn't really matters because you will be stuck with the same old WMC UI.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I guess I still see the NEED a little for this, I share out tuners from my dedicated machine, so on my tablet, gaming PC and another machine on my network, they are setup for live tv and the shared recorded folder with WMC. So on my tablet over wi-fi, I can watch live tv and recorded tv.


If I upgrade to Windows 10, I lose this feature that I do use a lot...
 

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I guess I still see the NEED a little for this, I share out tuners from my dedicated machine, so on my tablet, gaming PC and another machine on my network, they are setup for live tv and the shared recorded folder with WMC. So on my tablet over wi-fi, I can watch live tv and recorded tv.


If I upgrade to Windows 10, I lose this feature that I do use a lot...
You can share tuners from non WMC machines. You just need to bridge the network to allow tuner sharing. There are guides out there. For a while I was sharing tuners from a WHS box.
 

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The question is "Can WMC be hacked into Windows 10 ?". I'm thinking probably not.

Last Fall I installed the first Win 10 Tech Preview. There was no definitive info that my Win 8.1 WMC purchased license would not install. Anyway via the turn features on or off panel I added WMC and it was working properly. Later though I read on the TP forum that adding WMC breaks the TP build and the TP could not be updated or receive new TP builds. After reading that I formatted the partition and reinstalled the build sans WMC.

When Win 10 RTM is released this Summer it may be possible to do what I did above, but it might also carry the same penalty. Since Win 10 is designed to be continually updated I would not want to be stuck in place.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You can share tuners from non WMC machines. You just need to bridge the network to allow tuner sharing. There are guides out there. For a while I was sharing tuners from a WHS box.
In the same seamless interface as the TVs with all the Recorded TV, Movie Library and music too from WMC ? Yea, protected content wont work but, in my case that is maybe 2-3 channels have to worry about, 95% of everything works fine with this.

I didn't think so with out some major trickery or sharing folders that is not seamless looking.

I guess no one is interested in seeing if this is possible. I guess now to wait till RTM to bring this subject back up. I'm sure by then others will be interested in doing it.

I still think there is a NEED for cases line mine. I guess at this point I should just continue to be very vocal on Twitter and Facebook to Microsoft about putting WMC into Windows 10...

If you want to help out, use the hashtag #WindowsMediaCenter

Thanks !
 

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I guess no one is interested in seeing if this is possible. [...] I'm sure by then others will be interested in doing it.
Not really. If you're willing to use old abandonware like WMC, you should also be willing to use an old OS that supports it. If you can't live without Windows 10 for some reason, build a second PC. The solution to the lack of WMC support in Windows 10 is much simpler than you're making it out to be.

If I upgrade to Windows 10, I lose this feature that I do use a lot...
...then don't downgrade to Windows 10. An update is not an upgrade because the company that makes the software tells you it's an upgrade. It's an upgrade because it's better for your uses than the software you have currently. If you actually lose functionality by updating, then it's a downgrade, not an upgrade, so you shouldn't switch. It's that simple.
 

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In the same seamless interface as the TVs with all the Recorded TV, Movie Library and music too from WMC ? Yea, protected content wont work but, in my case that is maybe 2-3 channels have to worry about, 95% of everything works fine with this.

I didn't think so with out some major trickery or sharing folders that is not seamless looking.

If you want the WMC interface then you're obviously going to need WMC. You said you needed WMC to share tuners and that is not entirely correct. You can share tuners from a non-wmc machine to any device that supports cablecard tuners. I've done it with Ceton tuners, I'm told it could be done with ATI tuners and it seems kinda pointless with SD tuners since they are network devices by design.

I guess no one is interested in seeing if this is possible. I guess now to wait till RTM to bring this subject back up. I'm sure by then others will be interested in doing it.
There have been plenty of responses. Telling you "No it isn't possible" isn't the same as "No, I'm not interested."

It's still not possible (or at least not anywhere approaching practical) There have been projects where people spent months trying to get WMC to work on non-licensed versions of Windows. I'm very confident saying you're not going to get it working without breaking more than you fix.


I still think there is a NEED for cases line mine. I guess at this point I should just continue to be very vocal on Twitter and Facebook to Microsoft about putting WMC into Windows 10...
What do you NEED in Windows 10 that you also NEED in a HTPC? And what were you doing this time last year that circumvented the NEED for Windows 10?
 

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Not really. If you're willing to use old abandonware like WMC, you should also be willing to use an old OS that supports it. If you can't live without Windows 10 for some reason, build a second PC. The solution to the lack of WMC support in Windows 10 is much simpler than you're making it out to be.


...then don't downgrade to Windows 10. An update is not an upgrade because the company that makes the software tells you it's an upgrade. It's an upgrade because it's better for your uses than the software you have currently. If you actually lose functionality by updating, then it's a downgrade, not an upgrade, so you shouldn't switch. It's that simple.
Exactly. I could never understand all the commotion about switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8/8.1 for WMC. It broke things that worked in Windows 7 and it cost more so the logic simply escaped me. I can only assume that it's a psychological thing where some people simply have to have the latest even though it may not be the greatest. Windows 10 is probably a great OS for desktop use and I may switch my primary desktop PC to it at some point. For now, I really couldn't care less if it includes WMC because Windows 7 works perfectly fine for that purpose. The only reason I would ever switch to a different OS is if I had to replace my current hardware and Win 7 drivers were not available. Even then I'd likely buy hardware that still supported Win 7.

I think the only reason so many people are up in arms about WMC not being in Windows 10 is because they're afraid that Microsoft will stop providing guide data, which is a valid concern. Good thing for us that we have lots of alternatives to fall back on. ;)
 

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I'm assuming he wanted to be able to use his desktop on his main PC (not HTPC) while having TV play in a window/second monitor or something.

If you have HDHR Prime/HDHR tuner, you can use the HDHR View software to do this; and get channel logos/currently playing/currently on guide data. No nice interface for rec TV though (nor ability to play copy protected recordings; and you still need to rely on Windows Explorer for recordings). The HDHR DVR software will fix this though. If you have Ceton gear, your only option is to watch live TV (with no channel/guide data) through VLC or something; and no copy-protected stuff.

Or, like others suggested - just don't go Win 10 on the desktop.
 

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It all boils down to when and if Microsoft will turn off the switch on providing guide data. When that day comes it just means current WMC users will have to make a decision. Fortunately, there are lots of alternatives available. The only stumbling block for some will be whether their provider is flagging lots of channels. If they're not flagged then they go with another front end/back end setup using Kodi, MythTV, Next PVR, Media Portal, SageTV and probably a few others. Otherwise, they can stick with WMC and import guide data from a different source, such as Schedules Direct, using Big Screen EPG.
[emphasis added]

Huh, I didn't know that was possible. How does one change the EPG source in WMC?
 

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I've seen Big Screen EPG and Schedules Direct mentioned a few times in various threads. Has anyone on the Forum ever tried using these with WMC?
 

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Thanks for the links.

But I don't (yet) understand how the process of downloading EPG data into WMC from an alternative source would work, or how Schedules Direct specifically would help with that -- the SD folks only approve of open-source software, and neither Big Screen nor WMC are listed on their approved software page, so I don't see how Schedules Direct fits into the scheme.

In any event, according to a Schedules Direct bigwig, we're not allowed to use their service with WMC. Not that they explain anywhere on their website HOW that would be accomplished anyway...

I'm probably missing something here? :confused:
 
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