Sure, there are test generators out there with DVI output. Sencore and AccuPel both make them. AccuPel even supports the 8-bit HDMI YCbCr format, I believe. But they're fairly new, so your ISF contacts may just be a bit behind the times.
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Can you get ISF Calibration on DVI input?
I've tried to call 2 or 3 ISF calibrators and nobody has the equipment to calibrate the DVI input on my Marantz S2. They can all do component, but not DVI. Component is history with a Dish 921 and Denon 5900!
What's up with that. Don't they make test generators that output on DVI? Has anybody gotten their DVI or HDMI inputs ISF calibrated?
What's up with that. Don't they make test generators that output on DVI? Has anybody gotten their DVI or HDMI inputs ISF calibrated?
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I thought so. Shouldn't these guys have to have the most current equipment to be ISF certified? Anybody know the rules/requirements? Or did they just have to take some night class at the local CC?
I don't know. But I'm not sure it would be fair to force them to buy the latest equipment every year. These DVI test generators really are rather new.
I'll tell you a secret. ISF means almost nothing. Basically you just get "certified" once, and then that's it. You don't have to keep updating your equipment or even knowledge. The main reason to look for an ISF guy to do the calibration is that they usually have the necessary equipment. I know plenty of "ISF" guys that I wouldn't let near my projector. That's the tricky part. Finding one that's up to date on the latest projectors and test equipment.
Now, if you can't find anyone with a DVI type generator, they can use an Avia Pro or such with a DVI DVD player to do the setup. Not ideal, but it would work.
Now, if you can't find anyone with a DVI type generator, they can use an Avia Pro or such with a DVI DVD player to do the setup. Not ideal, but it would work.
The new Accupel has DVI output, is reasonably priced, and works great. Can't imaging anyone who calls themselves a calibrator without one.
Actually, it is preferable to use your DVD player and a calibration disc if you are going to be watching a lot of movies on your system.
One issue you may run accross is that many DVI/HDMI sets disable a number of the set-up adjustments when using the DVI input.
Kurt
One issue you may run accross is that many DVI/HDMI sets disable a number of the set-up adjustments when using the DVI input.
Kurt
Actually, if you are talking about DVI, there should be NO difference between a signal generator, a PC video card with DVI, and a DVD player with DVI output. They are all digital signals. I have measured all 3 plus a Faroudja DVP-1500, and a Margi Display-to-Go pcmcia video card, running DVI output - no detectable difference, in chromaticity, measured with a Gretag Lightspex and a JVC G150 projector.
William
William
That William guy sounds like he might know a little about this stuff. I wonder..If ET does ever call it'll probably be for a WP calibration.
Bet that one will be "no charge".
Put up a pic at the consol William, for those that didn't see you live running the hunt.
Bet that one will be "no charge".
Put up a pic at the consol William, for those that didn't see you live running the hunt.
Jimmy,
I hope so!
A picture? You mean like this one?
http://www.meier-phelps.com/temp/william46.jpg
^^^^^^^^^
William
I hope so!
A picture? You mean like this one?
http://www.meier-phelps.com/temp/william46.jpg
^^^^^^^^^
William
You are aware of course that Brownlee and Ward say it won't ever happen.
Me, I'm just hoping they're wrong and Shostak is right.
Me, I'm just hoping they're wrong and Shostak is right.
Hey William,
OT - but is there anywhere where I can read a little into your SETI involvement in Arecibo ?
OT - but is there anywhere where I can read a little into your SETI involvement in Arecibo ?
Jason, as much as I don't like to hear what you say- I do have to agree with you about people who go through ISF training and then don't do anything to forward their knowledge after that. Anyone can see that by visiting the ISF site and calling people on the list, you'll soon find that several either only calibrate what they sell, or don't have the latest test equipment.
Michael, although it is very expensive- the most active ISF'ers do uprgade/update their test equipment almost every year. It's really the only way that we can stay at the front of technological changes. So, even though there is no "official" ISF policy on the continual update of equipment, it's obviously recommended. This is actually part of what I explain to clients when I consult them about calibrations.
Ernie, what market are you in? I might know someone whom I can recommend for the calibration- that will have the proper equipment and experience to do the job.
Dan
Michael, although it is very expensive- the most active ISF'ers do uprgade/update their test equipment almost every year. It's really the only way that we can stay at the front of technological changes. So, even though there is no "official" ISF policy on the continual update of equipment, it's obviously recommended. This is actually part of what I explain to clients when I consult them about calibrations.
Ernie, what market are you in? I might know someone whom I can recommend for the calibration- that will have the proper equipment and experience to do the job.
Dan
Good info, Dan, thanks! That means it's reasonable to shop around until you find one that's really up to date, instead of giving up and attempting a crude Avia (or more expensive Colorfacts) calibration.
The Accupel HDG-3000 is $1299 MSRP. Considering what ISFers get for even a simple calibration... Well, you know the rest.
Ernie
I believe you have access to a Denon DVD5900 and a Bravo D1. Is it possible for you to compare the color test patterns from Video Essentials or Digital Video Essentials between these two players via DVI? Based on some of your shootout comments between these two DVI players, there seems to be a difference. A calibration disc would be a better reference source if there are differences and, of course, the best way to do this would be with two copies of the calibration disc and a switcher.
Ernie
I believe you have access to a Denon DVD5900 and a Bravo D1. Is it possible for you to compare the color test patterns from Video Essentials or Digital Video Essentials between these two players via DVI? Based on some of your shootout comments between these two DVI players, there seems to be a difference. A calibration disc would be a better reference source if there are differences and, of course, the best way to do this would be with two copies of the calibration disc and a switcher.
Joe,
There is quite a bit of difference between the two players (D1 & 5900) The 5900 has much more color output. Why? Who knows. I'm not sure I understand WM's comment above that all DVI sources are the same. They are not. In fact, I also have three different presets for the D1, the 5900 and the Dish 921. (The 5900's settings are at default)
So, here's a question to you ISF experts. How do you calibrate the DVI input on a PJ when the sources are different? If you were to use a DVI test generator, and calibrate to that, then the 5900 AND the 921 would both look off. If you calibrate to the 5900 using a test disk, then the 921 will not be correct. Thoughts?
There is quite a bit of difference between the two players (D1 & 5900) The 5900 has much more color output. Why? Who knows. I'm not sure I understand WM's comment above that all DVI sources are the same. They are not. In fact, I also have three different presets for the D1, the 5900 and the Dish 921. (The 5900's settings are at default)
So, here's a question to you ISF experts. How do you calibrate the DVI input on a PJ when the sources are different? If you were to use a DVI test generator, and calibrate to that, then the 5900 AND the 921 would both look off. If you calibrate to the 5900 using a test disk, then the 921 will not be correct. Thoughts?
Quote:
I use the Bravo D1 and the color seems a tad subdued, and with the color control frozen out when using DVI, I can't bump it up to compensate. On the other hand, my Motorola 6200 HDTV cable box needs brightness set a touch higher than the Bravo to give an accurate picture.
Getting back to the topic in hand, the major part of a calibration involves setting an accurate grayscale. I would have thought that while there may be variances in say the brightness setting or color saturation from one source to another, an accurate gray scale setting on one should apply to any others.
The solution would seem to be to set grayscale, and then adjust the normal user settings like brightness, color etc for each individual source and store it all into one of the prsets.
The Infocus units actually include the individual color gains and off-set as part of the user presets, so it would definitely be possible on those machines to store different grayscale set up on this unit. Actually, I basically do this now as I prefer to adjust the individual color offsets to adjust black-level rather than using the "brightness" setting.
Kurt
| There is quite a bit of difference between the two players (D1 & 5900) The 5900 has much more color output |
Getting back to the topic in hand, the major part of a calibration involves setting an accurate grayscale. I would have thought that while there may be variances in say the brightness setting or color saturation from one source to another, an accurate gray scale setting on one should apply to any others.
The solution would seem to be to set grayscale, and then adjust the normal user settings like brightness, color etc for each individual source and store it all into one of the prsets.
The Infocus units actually include the individual color gains and off-set as part of the user presets, so it would definitely be possible on those machines to store different grayscale set up on this unit. Actually, I basically do this now as I prefer to adjust the individual color offsets to adjust black-level rather than using the "brightness" setting.
Kurt
Quote:
I agree, it's easy to set the gray-scale for 5900 using test disks. But then the 921 will look slightly different. How do you set the gray-scale for the Dish 921?
| The solution would seem to be to set grayscale, and then adjust the normal user settings like brightness, color etc for each individual source and store it all into one of the prsets. |
Quote:
Well you can't unless one of the channels runs a test pannel, and I've never seen any commercial channel run the patterns you need to set grayscale.
Kurt
| How do you set the gray-scale for the Dish 921? |
Kurt
Quote:
That's not what he's saying. He's saying that all DVI connections are the same, so as long as you're sending the same source material over that connection, it doesn't matter which DVI connection you use.
Now, you say, well, if I put the same DVD into a Bravo D1 and a Denon 5900, I get different results. But there are a variety of reasons that could be the case: different MPEG decoding, different deinterlacing, and different scaling. The end result is that different data is being sent over the DVI connection in each case. The source material, as presented to the DVI connection, is different.
Now for test patterns have very precisely defined pixel values, and are far more carefully defined than the output of various DVD players. Thus, it's reasonable to expect that William was able to reproduce precisely the same results using multiple devices.
So it is definitely reasonable to calibrate a DVI input using a test pattern generator like the AccuPel, and expect it to give great results when you connect your Bravo D1 or Denon 5900 to it.
| I'm not sure I understand WM's comment above that all DVI sources are the same. They are not. In fact, I also have three different presets for the D1, the 5900 and the Dish 921. (The 5900's settings are at default) |
Now, you say, well, if I put the same DVD into a Bravo D1 and a Denon 5900, I get different results. But there are a variety of reasons that could be the case: different MPEG decoding, different deinterlacing, and different scaling. The end result is that different data is being sent over the DVI connection in each case. The source material, as presented to the DVI connection, is different.
Now for test patterns have very precisely defined pixel values, and are far more carefully defined than the output of various DVD players. Thus, it's reasonable to expect that William was able to reproduce precisely the same results using multiple devices.
So it is definitely reasonable to calibrate a DVI input using a test pattern generator like the AccuPel, and expect it to give great results when you connect your Bravo D1 or Denon 5900 to it.
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