[DanMc]

Can you over-buy a reciever?


Is it a mistake to buy a better receiver than your speakers? My current Onkyo reciever (747) gets 90 watts stereo, 80 watts LR + 40 watts surround. I've got a 5.1 setup in my living room, and two more speakers running off another old reciever that I'm using to poer my outdoor speakers. I'd also like to add two more cieling speakers in my dining room.


My choices in a new Onkyo receiver are:

• The 605 (90w x 7)
• The 705 (100w x7)
• The 805 (130w x7)
• The 875 (140w x7)

I'm leaning towards the Onkyo 805, but I'm wondering if anyone has advise first. Thanks!


I've listed my setup below.

• Center:Cambridge Soundworks Center Channel Plus, Unknown watts
• Sides: Cambridge Soundworks Newton NC300 150 watts max
• Surrounds: Cambridge Soundworks Ambience 80 Cieling Speakers, 125 watts max
• Woofer: Cambridge Soundworks Base Cube 8.
• Outdoor Speakers: Yamaha Outdoor Speakers 120Watt Max.
• HDTV: Panasonic 42" Plasma
• BluRay DVD Player: Sony

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The 805 is very nice and might even motivate you to step up to more suitable speakers. It is way over the top for your current batch.

 

[DanMc]

My budget is around $500, So should I spend that cash on new front speakers? The ones I have are basically mid-range bookshelf speakers. I just moved from a small apartment to a home with a huge living room. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[oztech]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMc /forum/post/14249232


My budget is around $500, So should I spend that cash on new front speakers? The ones I have are basically mid-range bookshelf speakers. I just moved from a small apartment to a home with a huge living room. Any suggestions? Thanks.

I would catch the 805 while it is still on sale before the 806 hits the shelf

and save more money up and then demo as many speakers in your price

range possible.

 

[MichaelJHuman]

You can use a receiver with higher power than your speaker's continuous power rating. Just use some care.


There are two kinds of limits. Physical and thermal. Physical may be obvious, as the sound of your woofer hitting it's excursion limits is something you would likely notice.


If you exceed thermal limits, you could fry your voice coils - and may not realize that was happening.


Only time I have ever fried a speaker, I was asking for it

 

[captavs]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/14249455


You can use a receiver with higher power than your speaker's continuous power rating. Just use some care.


There are two kinds of limits. Physical and thermal. Physical may be obvious, as the sound of your woofer hitting it's excursion limits is something you would likely notice.


If you exceed thermal limits, you could fry your voice coils - and may not realize that was happening.


Only time I have ever fried a speaker, I was asking for it

I fried a speaker once myself. The speaker litterly ignited and poured out smoke.

I was asking for it! Was a book shelf speaker with a continuous power rating less then what the Denon receiver could put out and cranked for several hours. Sounded great until it went up in smoke.

 

[Fanboyz]

I wonder about power ratings myself, my Klipsch fronts and center take 150w rms while the surrounds and rears take 100w rms.

The website says they can all take like 500w in short peaks.

The Klipsch reference 82 system is super efficient, when I hit 75dbs everything sounds untaxed- aside from the personal distress the volume causes. Power is not wanting in any regard but I would love to eventually replace my Onkyo 805 with a Integera 9.9 (TBA) and Outlaw 7700.

I would mainly do this as seperates look cool and by that notion should psycosomatically enhance my HT.

The Outlaw 7700 can deliver like 215w all channel driven. I assume that would be at -0dbs on the avr/ssp, My klipsch set hit 75dbs (THX -0dbs reference) at -5db's on my Onkyo 805's display.

Would the Outlaw burn out my Klipsch'es? I know a few people who believe you should always have twice your speaker's rated power in amplifier output. Which is correct?

 

[Fanboyz]

Which is correct?

 

[oztech]

You have control of the volume so no unless you go crazy and turn it way up I drag

out my Radio Shack db meter every once in awhile to make sure i'm not damaging

my hearing.

 

[BobL]

Most good speakers typically can handle peaks greater than recommended for short periods of time. The ratings are usually a conservative figure from the manufacturer based on the frequency range of the speaker. A lot depends on how much power, at what frequency and for what duration.


An amp that is underpowered for your speakers and goes into 'hard' clipping will likely blow your speakers. Get a good amp and don't push it too hard if you are worried about hurting your speakers.


Bob

 

[DulcetTones]

In general a lot of speakers are designed to handle peaks above their recommended watts (which are stated for maximum continuous rating), but I want to stress it depends upon the manufacturerd speaker.

I guess this is to accomodate dynamic headroom that can be rather unpredictable.


Key point though is that I think the peak watts is meant to be provided by amps that are not clipping, otherwise you can damage your speakers even if they can handle the watts.


Some useful info here, second one is nice as it mentions about voltage-current required in amps:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/spkpwfaq.pdf
http://www.axiomaudio.com/dynamicheadroom.html


Cheers

DT

 

[MichaelJHuman]

It's very simple. The manufacturer of the speakers is giving you a number they think you should not exceed for continuous levels.


Now, because you can peak higher than that number you may want more power. How much more is what I believe you are asking.


To be honest, any number I could give you is meaningless. But I can walk you though some numbers.


You should probably be listening to average levels close to 80 dB for your ear's sake. Reduce your speakers apparent efficiency by 6 dB for each doubling of a meter. Two meters away it's down 6 dB; 4 meters 12 dB.


Say it's down 12dB. Working backwards from 80dB at your listening position, figure you need 92 dB at the speaker. Figure your Klipsch around 90 dB. Wow, that only takes two watts of power.


Say the dynamic range is 15 dB (maybe a little low, but for sake of argument.) So you need maybe 108 dB SPL at the speaker for your peaks. That's about 64 watts of power for peaks.


If you insist on spending the money on a 200x5 channel amp, or whatever, just be aware that your speakers can't be driven continuously at the amps max output. Of course getting to that point could do some damage to your hearing.

 

[r1dude57]

I used to run a pair of Boston Acoustsic T-1000 floorstanders rated at 150 watts powered by a Carver m1.5t (380 RMS per channel). I would feed every last watt outta that Carver to those things and never had an issue. They sure did sing...

 

[Fanboyz]

my Klipsch need very little power, their 98dbs efficient.

I just want a separate amplifier because I'm excessive.

 

[dsmith901]

More speakers are damaged from having too little power available than from having too much because pushing an underpowered receiver beyond it's limits will result in clipping. Below is a good article to read by a well-respected author:

http://sound.westhost.com/tweeters.htm

 

[Fanboyz]

so I can get the Outlaw 7700 then.

 

[MichaelJHuman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 /forum/post/14259332


More speakers are damaged from having too little power available than from having too much because pushing an underpowered receiver beyond it's limits will result in clipping. Below is a good article to read by a well-respected author:

http://sound.westhost.com/tweeters.htm

A commonly repeated (and true statement,) but you can have too much power. Don't doubt that. Not likely with receivers into standard speakers, but if you buy big enough amps, it can be done.


I have hit the excursion limits on my woofer before.

 

[M Code]

Loudspeakers are typically blown because of clipping distortion..

This usually happens because the power amplifier is being pushed beyond its capabilities for a continuous period...

A short peak is OK..

Also low impedance, low sensitivity loudspeakers can present a more difficult load for the amplifier to drive adequately, causing the amplifier to go into clipping sooner.


Just my $0.03..

 

[kansashick]

I was worried about the same thing. My Atlantic Tech speakers have a max of about 250 and I have a 500 watt amp that puts out 750 at the AT's 6 ohm impedance. I called tech support at AT and they told me not to worry. It is like an automobile, just don't floor it.

 

[DulcetTones]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/14264794


A commonly repeated (and true statement,) but you can have too much power. Don't doubt that. Not likely with receivers into standard speakers, but if you buy big enough amps, it can be done.


I have hit the excursion limits on my woofer before.

Would be nice to learn from this experience; can you comment about the room size, speaker spec (recommended amp power and whether they were 2-way/3-way).


I agree your right to highlight that you can experience problems with too much power, maybe considerations should also include room size with sitting location and some of the speaker specs for those asking this question.


Cheers

DT