[icaruso]

Pardon me if this is a really stupid question. I have no experience with separates.


I have a onkyo tx-ds989. The 989 had an issue with dolby digital 5.1 dropouts on a couple of comcast cable channels - fox and national geographic. If I switched to analog, the problem went away. I found a faq on the onkyo website that described my exact issue. But my receiver wasn't in the list.


I called Onkyo and they told me my problem could be fixed, authorized an out of warranty repair and gave me the location of a local authorized onkyo repair center. That was last November. Long story short, my receiver is in the shop again, this time for 3 weeks, it has been "repaired" several times. First ic's were replaced, then boards were ordered and then they went back to the receivers original ic's. The result of all this attention is I have a receiver that has NO audio. As I write this, the repair shop is trying to get onkyo to work with them. Onkyo say's that the repair shop ordered and installed the wrong components. Onkyo basically told me they are done and offered to sell me a refurb receiver with my receiver in trade. They are not giving any deal.


I'm just trying to figure out what to do. I've been looking thru the forum for days looking at receivers. And I thought maybe I should consider going with separates.


And if I did go with separates, I was wondering if I could use my 989 as the amplifier?


Right now, I have my comcast box hooked up to a boombox. And I can't use any of my other sources. So I am getting desperate to resolve my problem.


For receivers I've been looking at Harman Kardon's, Yamaha's, onkyo's and Cambridge Audio.

Onkyo's seem to have a rich set of features. But I see people are having a lot of issues with them.

And even though I love my onkyo, I am not so happy with my repair experience.


I've read that onkyo's have a 2 year warranty, denon's a 3 year warranty and yamaha a 5 year warranty. So I looked at the yamaha's. I was interested in the yamaha RX-V2065, but you can't assign the digital audio inputs. This could be a problem for me.


possible receiver candidates:

Yamaha RX-V2065

Harman Kardon AVR 3600


I'm really confused as what to do. There are so many options, my head is spinning.

I always get such great info from this forum.

Thanks for your help


Irene

 

[MichaelJHuman]

You can always use a receiver as an amp, if it has the proper inputs, such as a set of Multi-channel inputs.


It's volume control would be used to set the gain, just like gain/level controls on an amp. Depending on your setup, you may need to cover the IR sensor to keep it from responding to signals.

 

[Knucklehead90]

I think you'd be better off getting a new AVR. A prepro will cost you more than most AVRs. I tried to download the user's manual for the 989 but Onkyo doesn't have it available. Unless you have direct inputs to the amp section you couldn't connect a prepro to it anyway. The only AVR I've seen that can do this is some of the older HK AVRs such as the 520 which I owned for many years.

 

[Audiodork]

Hello,

Some, mostly Flagship AVR's, used to offer Preout/Main in connections where you removed little jumpers where you could use just the amplifier in the AVR.

Or just the Preamp part as well.

Cheers,

AD

 

[icaruso]

I have both the users manual and a brochure.

The unit has a multi channel input and also has amp in.


I took a photo of part of the back of the unit from the brochure and posted it to flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/icaruso/


Does it look like an option to use it as an amp with either the multi channel in or the amp in?


Thanks!

 

[icaruso]

That's to add an external amp to the 989. I was afraid of that.

 

[SoundChex]



Quote:
Originally Posted by icaruso /forum/post/18250392


I have both the users manual and a brochure.

The unit has a multi channel input and also has amp in.


I took a photo of part of the back of the unit from the brochure and posted it to flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/icaruso/


Does it look like an option to use it as an amp with either the multi channel in or the amp in?


Thanks!

From the photo, it would appear that removing the shorting pins would let you use the L/C/R power amps directly from an external pre-amp.

 

[icaruso]

That's awesome!!

Now I have the option of using the 989 as an amp if I can find a compatible pre/pro. And of course, I have to get the receiver back from the shop


You guys are great.

Thanks!!!

 

[RoboRay]

Yes, you can definitely pull those jumpers out and plug directly into the L/C/R power amps, bypassing the entire rest of the receiver, even the volume control.


Note that those are just for the Left, Center and Right channels, however. If you want to use all of your receiver amps, you'll have to leave the jumpers installed and connect the pre-pro outputs to the multichannel analog inputs on the 989, as mentioned above.


Another option would be to buy a receiver instead of a pre-pro. That way, you can use the old receiver's amps to power the L/C/R speakers (or even just L/R) by pulling the jumpers from the old receiver and use the new receiver's amps to power your surround speakers. Dividing your power-needs between two independent power supplies may be beneficial.

 

[icaruso]

RoboRay,


If I connect a second receiver to the R/L/C on my onkyo amp in, where do those cables go on the second receiver ?


And in this case, would my L/R/C speakers be connected to my onkyo?

And would the surrounds be connected to the second receiver?


I really appreciate your help.

thanks

Irene

 

[Knucklehead90]

That second receiver would need to have preamp out jacks - and those would be connected directly to the amp input jacks.


I see little point in doing that unless the second receiver is down on power or you have speakers that are difficult loads - you could 'share' the load so to speak.

 

[MichaelJHuman]

If nothing else, if you live in a cold climate, the extra heat will be welcome 6 months of the year.

 

[icaruso]

MichaelJHuman,


Ha, you're funny. I do live in a cold climate. My little ht room is 10x12' and with the door closed, the equipment raises the temp by 10 degrees which is nice and toasty in the winter.

 

[icaruso]

Knucklehead90,


My speakers are cambridge soundworks newton t500, with matching center and surround.

I don't have a second receiver or pre/pro yet. I'm just trying to leverage whatever I can get from my onkyo 989.

 

[bobpaule]

The ugly truth is that a setup like you suggested defeats the purpose of separates. That is to keep the interference generating low current components away from the induction loop of the amp's tranny, as it will easily amplify noise too.


I went as far as to use separated power conditioners for the low and high current stages, in "isolated" and "balanced" configurations respectively.


Using a receiver with pre-outs as a processor makes a lot of sense actually, and that is how i got started before i discovered the wonderful world on OnkyoPro/Integra separates and XLR interconnects.


You are better off by starting daily fishing expeditions on AVS Falsifieds, Audiogon, and the Bay looking for a nice 5 channel amp, preferable with monoblock construction, not older than 10 yrs. or caps may already be dried out. Stay away from puny sub 50lb machines, they lack proper heatsinks and copper isolation plates, so apart from being a fire hazard they'll also have crosstalk. My favorites are Sherbourn, BAT, Anthem, Integra Home Theater. Later, much later, after you boss's funeral, you might want to indulge into a Plinius, California Audio Labs or similar to feed the mains (chamber music or jazz vocal SACDs are often 2 channel), if you want to go the Class A solid state route, or play with Tesla tubes if you liked grandpas radio and have 1/2 hour to wait for it to warm up, those usually go with the 30k pair of granite enclosure speakers featured on the obituary section of Stereophile, 1986 Châteauneuf-du-Pape and Saint-André on rye on the house of course.


I hope this was helpful apart from the humor.

 

[MichaelJHuman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule /forum/post/18252193


The ugly truth is that a setup like you suggested defeats the purpose of separates. That is to keep the interference generating low current components away from the induction loop of the amp's tranny, as it will easily amplify noise too.

IMO, that's not the only reason for separates. And pre pros also have transformers.

 

[icaruso]

bobpaule,


Thanks for your comments.

It's good to know what all the options are.


Irene

 

[RoboRay]



Quote:
Originally Posted by icaruso /forum/post/18251862


RoboRay,


If I connect a second receiver to the R/L/C on my onkyo amp in, where do those cables go on the second receiver ?


And in this case, would my L/R/C speakers be connected to my onkyo?

And would the surrounds be connected to the second receiver?


I really appreciate your help.

thanks

Irene

The new receiver would need pre-amp output jacks, which you would connect by RCA cables to the "Amp In" jacks on the old receiver. The L/C/R speakers would be connected to the L/C/R speaker terminals on the old receiver. The surround speakers would be connected directly to the surround speaker terminals on the new receiver.


I don't normally recommend using a receiver simply as a power amp, but having pre-amp-out to amp-in jacks on the back does make it a little better, since you have disconnected the rest of that receiver from the circuit by pulling those jumpers and connecting directly to the power amps. The problems with the old receiver make it pretty much unsaleable, so you may as well find something to do with it.


You may not really benefit from this arrangement, though. A new receiver may provide adequate power for your needs on it's own. You can always try it both ways and then decide if keeping the old receiver hooked up as a separate power amp is worth it or not.

 

[icaruso]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay /forum/post/18252250


You may not really benefit from this arrangement, though. A new receiver may provide adequate power for your needs on it's own. You can always try it both ways and then decide if keeping the old receiver hooked up as a separate power amp is worth it or not.

That makes sense. I'll try it both ways.

Thanks!

 

[SoundChex]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay /forum/post/18252250


The new receiver would need pre-amp output jacks, which you would connect by RCA cables to the "Amp In" jacks on the old receiver. The L/C/R speakers would be connected to the L/C/R speaker terminals on the old receiver. The surround speakers would be connected directly to the surround speaker terminals on the new receiver.


I don't normally recommend using a receiver simply as a power amp, but having pre-amp-out to amp-in jacks on the back does make it a little better, since you have disconnected the rest of that receiver from the circuit by pulling those jumpers and connecting directly to the power amps. The problems with the old receiver make it pretty much unsaleable, so you may as well find something to do with it.


You may not really benefit from this arrangement, though. A new receiver may provide adequate power for your needs on it's own. You can always try it both ways and then decide if keeping the old receiver hooked up as a separate power amp is worth it or not.

And you are not simply limited to using the L/C/R power amps from your old receiver to power the corresponding speakers in your new configuration (viz):


The L+R Main amps on my old Pioneer AVR have been retasked to drive the L+R Surround speakers on my upgraded system (hopefully improving the new AVR's performance driving the L/C/R Main speakers!)


In addition, the old Pioneer AVR (#1) has an RIAA pre-amp for my turntable (not included in the more basic new AVRs), (#2) allows me to hook up another couple of VCRs, and (#3) "adds back" a 'tape monitor' loop (missing from more recent AVRs) on which I can hang a cassette deck, a BBE Sonic Maximizer, and a dbx Dynamics Processor that infrequently get used to 'recover' badly mixed/mastered cassette/VHS tapes, or badly mixed/mastered/transferred CDs/DVDs.

And my old AVR had pre/power shorting pins for all five channels . . . Thank you Pioneer!