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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this might be a stupid question, but I thought I read somewhere that you can watch 4:3 without removing the Panamorph. How is this possible? I am considering using the Panamorph with a G-15 and with no scaler or HTPC, so I would like to know if it is possible to watch 4:3 with the Panamorph with that configuration.


P.S. I have a Quadscan Elite out for repair/evaluation. It does not enable one to use the Panamorph. One option I am considering is using the Panamorph instead of the Quadscan to improve picture quality (which is already excellent). Thus far, I prefer the image straight in from my DVD player over the Quadscan image, although this may change when it is repaired/evaluated by Focus Enhancements.
 

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It can be slid to one side on its mounting bracket's rail.



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Hi Smitty,


It is my plan to use the Panamorph and never slide it. I'm am somewhat of a videophile-on-a-budget, so I will abort the idea if it degrades the image, but believe that it will be great.


The idea is to modify the projector electronically (D-ILA only, unfortunately) to display 4:3 material in the middle of a 16:9 screen ("pillar-boxed", with bars on the left and right) and then stretch that 4:3 picture to a 4:4 aspect ratio electronically.


In other words, use the middle 1024x1024 pixels of the projector to display a 1024x768 4:3 image. This, of course, is vertically stretched, which is exactly what the Panamorph wants to see as input. After the optical adjustment, the picture lands on the center of my 16:9 screen.


I like this idea because widescreen images (my higher quality sources) will be bigger than my 4:3 sources (lower quality) and I won't ever have to climb up and touch the Panamorph.


The operation will be as simple as pushing one single button on the Pronto to switch from 4:3 to 16:9.


Click here to see a digital picture of the electronic adjustments (without the Panamorph in place).
 

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Smitty,


When using the G-15/Panamorph combination for a DVD that

is not an anamorphic DVD - that is the image is vertically

stretched - the HTPC or what ever scaler is used has to

simulate an anamorphic DVD.


That is - if you have a regular letterboxed movie - the

scaler has to throw away the black bars top and bottom and

stretch the letterboxed image vertically to fill the 4:3

aspect ratio panel of the D-ILA chip. This distorted image

is then compressed vertically by the Panamorph.


That is the Panamorph will undo the distortion the scaler

does. Likewise, if you have a 4:3 image that you want to

display in the middle of your 16:9 screen - then you use

the scaler to pre-distort the image so that when this

distortion is undone by the Panamorph - you have your

desired 4:3 image.


As to your P.S. - you can't get any improvement using the

Panamorph for non-anamorphic material unless you have an

HTPC or a scaler that can do this pre-distortion that is

undone by the Panamorph. Feeding a letterboxed image

directly to the G15 and viewing through a Panamorph will

not give you the proper aspect ratio image - it will be

distorted - squished vertically.


Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So, Mark, how do you modify the projector electronically to display 4:3 material in the middle of a 16:9 screen and then stretch that 4:3 picture to a 4:4 aspect ratio electronically? Is this done in the service menu of the DILA projector, or do you need Dilard or something like that?
 

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Morbius,


No HTPC needed if you modify the projector itself. The modification will works with any input (as long as the correct source is selected on the projector). Just use your remote to change the source, and you've got it.


If you use an HTPC, YXY comes to mind as another possible solution as well.

Smitty,


Unfortunately, there is no service menu of the projector. However, the projector supports a lot of undocumented modifications through the RS232 port.


You could actually try to do the modifications using just HyperTerminal and a null modem cable. The commands are fairly short.


The problem is that the commands are interactive. For instance, doing the change described above requires a few dozen calculations and data exchanges with the projector. Not all combinations are valid.


I did the 4:3 stretch pictured above using the Dilard Image Geometry Wizard, which keeps all of the settings consistent.


By the way, this technique is officially untested, as the Panamorphs are still fairly sparse.
 

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I believe my Panamorph is currently with UPS. Soon I'll be

trying exactly what you have mentioned with my G1000. I have

no wish to slide the Panamorph aside and adjust the tilt.


Might have to try this out on the LT150 too, wonder which

one arrives first. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by Mark Hoy (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

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Milori-


Will you be making your Dilard mod files, for use with the Panamorph, available on your website?


Jeff
 

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Is there any chance that projector manufacturer would supply a projector only with an anamorphic lens and build in the abilty to squeeze a 4:3 picture to produce the desired result with the push of a button. Wouldn't that be the best of all worlds?
 

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Hi Jeffrey,


If the mod. hasn't already been created by the time I get a Panamorph, I will certainly upload it to the site.


Anyone can upload mod files through their web browser, and I have a feeling that this mod. may be done by the time I get a Panamorph.


I haven't even gotten 'the e-mail' yet....
 

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The most flexible for doing presentation projectors is a HTPC with YXY and Powerstrip.

My Dwin has a set-up mode (screen selection mode) for Anamorphic lens attachments called "16:9A" which when you select 4:3 it pillarboxes a stretched 1:33:1 image to a 768 x 768 pixel count then the Panamorph does its squeeze to give a 768 x 576 for the 1:33:1 image.

Of course when you select 16:9 it uses 1024 x 768 which is then squeezed by the Panamorph down to 1:78:1.

The best part for me is it doesn't matter if I have 1080I HD ,720P,480P.480I in either component,rgb,svhs or composite inputs it all works automatically with the Panamorph.


I understand that DILARD can do this on DILA's as well.

In my view this is the best way to handle an Anamorphic lens rather than doing a mechanical bypass. XGA resolution and above can afford to give away some resolution and brightness for 1:33:1 images because we are more concerned with widescreen. The bypass mode on the Panamorph will of course come in handy for those who can not electronically stretch a 1:33:1/letterbox image.


DavidW


[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

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Chris,


I am well aware of, and appreciate Mark's expertise with

regard to the JVC's internal scaler.


However, I was giving my justification for advising the

use of the external scalers - they are better than the

internal scaler - so my own philosophy is to feed the

JVC its native resolution.


Yes - I'm aware that the JVC scaler's main drawback is the

deinterlacer. This was reported last year when Sterophile's

Guide to Home Theater did a review of the JVC G10. In a

sidebar, SGHT technical editor Tom Norton reported that the

scaler-induced artifacts were greatly diminished when the

JVC was fed a progressive signal from a Toshiba progressive

DVD player. His conclusion was that the JVC de-interlacer

was responsible for most of the artifacts.


However, even if the internal scaler does not have to do

the job of de-interlacing - I believe external scalers like

Radeon- and Nvidia-based HTPCs and hardware-based scalers

like Faroudja will still beat the JVC internal scaler.


It may be a marginal increase - but when using a JVC D-ILA

with Panamorph - aren't we shooting for the best?


Greg
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Norde:
Is there any chance that projector manufacturer would supply a projector only with an anamorphic lens and build in the abilty to squeeze a 4:3 picture to produce the desired result with the push of a button. Wouldn't that be the best of all worlds?
Isn't that a native 16:9 projector? They already exist and with no button pushing required e.g. sony 10ht & 11ht & Sayno plv60, etc. Granted they are not using anamorphic lenses but rather 16:9 panels , but that is even better, more resolution.


Regards,


Brian



[This message has been edited by btmoore (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

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Mark,


Yes - you could use the internal scaler of the G15 to


do the pre-distortion - but the G15's internal scaler is


not as good as external scalers like HTPCs and others.


I'd try to stay away from using the internal scaler - and


only feed the G15 its native 1365X1024 signal so the


internal scaler is effectively bypassed.


Greg
 

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Brian,


A D-ILA with an anamorphic lens uses 1365x1024 pixels to fill a 16x9 screen. Because of the anamorphic lens, the pixels are rectangular rather than square. This compares with the Sony/Sanyo 1366x768 square pixels. I don't see how fewer pixels gives you more resolution. You could argue that the resolution is really the same with DVD given the source resolution, but 1080i should be better on the D-ILA coupled with the anamorphic lens. No question that 16:9 panels are simpler though.


- Chris
 

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Greg,


With the possible exception of Mark Foster and perhaps some people at JVC, Mark Hunter probably knows more about the D-ILA scaler than anyone on the planet. What has been said before is that the internal scaler has been given a bad rap, and that it is really the deinterlacer that sucks. Mark thinks that the scaler will be able to do a decent job with the reverse anamorphic stretch. I'm hoping he is right, because I want to continue using my Quadscan, which doesn't do this. There have been other threads on this topic.


- Chris
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Satterlee:
Brian,


A D-ILA with an anamorphic lens uses 1365x1024 pixels to fill a 16x9 screen. Because of the anamorphic lens, the pixels are rectangular rather than square. This compares with the Sony/Sanyo 1366x768 square pixels. I don't see how fewer pixels gives you more resolution. You could argue that the resolution is really the same with DVD given the source resolution, but 1080i should be better on the D-ILA coupled with the anamorphic lens. No question that 16:9 panels are simpler though.


- Chris
I agree on your points but the original poster I responded to was asking about a native anamorphic projector and not just dila. It would be great if someone produced a native anamorphic dila that did not require all the tweaking to be able to watch 16:9 and 4:3 at a constant height.


Regards,


Brian
 

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Certain projectors can alter the image internally to allow the perminent placement of an anamorphic lens for any aspect ratio. Some examples are the Seleco's, Dwin Transvision, and JVC D-ila projectors. Basically, most true HT projectors can do this. Presentation units will for the most part not have this capability.


Thanks!


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716-454-1460 ext.204

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Sounds like the Panasonice RP91 would be the perfect DVD player to mate with the Panamorph since it will scale any standard and letterboxed images into an anamorphic images.


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Christopher Young

Seattle, WA
 
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