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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have almost finalised Canon HF10/HF100 eventhough i feel there were lot of shortcomings i dont like in these:


no SD recording, widely known poor low light performances, low batterry performance, etc

i really liked the SD recording facility in SR11 ( my friend rejected the canon only on that ground) since i can make a quick DVD copy to distribute. BUt the size of the cam really put me off.


When i was about to order canon, sony announced the CX12 which really made me rethink my options


eventhough the price is bit high and im not favouring the memory stick of sony, i feel CX12 will have more features/options than HF10/100.


1. SD recording


2, Better low light perf of SR11/12


3. face detection


4, Smile shutter which i feel is very help ful in capuring smily faces stills during functions while video recording is on. ( this facility i was dreaming in a camcorder which automatically capture still while video is recording). some may discard this as sonys gimmicks. since i do shoot a lot with pple face, i find its very interesting -smile detection and face detection


5 Better still quality.


6 5.1 sound


7. touch screen


8. face index, film index




since i am a newcomer in this forum, i need yr expert opinion on my options


thanx in advance
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Also if anyone can help me in evaluation of

sony's VRD-MC5

DVDirect® MC5 Multi-Function DVD Recorder

which i plan to buy .
 

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SD recording isn't much of a feature for an HD camera (in my opinion), and low-light recording performance advantage is a bit questionable -- Canon seems to produce sharper, but grainier low-light shots, and seems to focus better in low light. With 24p, you can also get additional low-light performance, as long as your subjects aren't moving too much
.


Sony obviously wins 5 and 6, and 3-4-8 are really all related, but also certainly are a Sony advantage. But, Canon has a lot of little features that one could list -- 24/30p, many manual adjustments, SDHC card support, etc..


In the end, though, CX12 has to be massively better than HF100 to warrant a higher price and those awful memory sticks that still cost 4 times the price of SDHC!
 

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If you can, I would compare the price of the CX12 with the HF100 a few months after the CX12 is out. It's not really fair to compare the price of a camcorder that's not out yet with one that's currently heavily discounted. After all, they have the exact same MSRP ($900).


Price aside, they have a different set of features, and both have pros and cons. I guess it comes down to what's most important to you.


If you're really in a hurry though, the HF100 will be a better deal in the short term.
 

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The thing is, even if the camera price comes down to match HF100 (unlikely for the next little while), the price for 2 16GB sticks (probably what the average user will buy over the life of the camera) adds another $250 to the Sony side. That's a free wide-angle lens and an external microphone on HF100, or an external light... which then puts Canon ahead in audio and low-light
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanx ericjet for comments - Canon already started discounting heavily from the MRP to around 800 $. BUt instead of blindily going for Canon i decided to wait till CX12 is out in the market.


Also i found out a minor operational diff in CX12 ( frankly observed while checking from CX7) and HF. Canon u cant shoot when LCD panel in closed position( this is useful when u position the camera and shoot parties in fixed frame) where as Sony it is possible.


Thanx pulzar for comments - Regarding SD - Many of my friends has great praise on Canon HF10/100 series BUT when they bought it, then they started to undertand how troublesome it is to edit a AVCHD media, altought video quality is excellent. This happened when one guy has to edit and make copies of his HD footage of his sons birthday. Thats why I personally feel CX-12 facility that it can record MPEG-2 which is so important when i need a format which is consider high quality and easy to edit. For the AVCHD format, i will just use it for short video which really need super high quality.



This flexibilty is very helpful to pple like me.


Still the use of memory stick sucks but the 16GB duopro is now costing around 110$ and the price is still dropping.


Regarding Night video/ low light, i personally checked HF with the current sony SR12, from my point of view, Day and Night Video Quality is way better. Now I am eagering for the Sony CX-12 for another comparison.


Regarding the smile shutter and face detection - THe current users of SR12 can vouch for the convinience of it . It is inconvinient in handling of still and video intermittently where as i can vouch for shooting a quite no. of gud Quality stills ( in this regards Sony is far better than Canon ) while un interrupted video shooting.
 

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Also i found out a minor operational diff in CX12 ( frankly observed while checking from CX7) and HF. Canon u cant shoot when LCD panel in closed position( this is useful when u position the camera and shoot parties in fixed frame) where as Sony it is possible.




I have shot with my HF10 with the screen closed. Frame your shot first with the screen open, turn off camera and close screen. Power back on and hit record. Works for me.
 

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qatarmallu,


I think that if you can afford it, your decision to wait for the CX12 to come out is very wise. At the very least, you'll be able to read comparative reviews between the two (you can bet that Camcorderinfo.com will put those two head to head) and maybe see a little price war, driving both prices down even more. IMHO, it's worth waiting a little more just for that, even if you're set on the Canon.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by qatarmallu /forum/post/14240997


BUt instead of blindily going for Canon i decided to wait till CX12 is out in the market.

Like ericjut said, that's definitely a wise decision if you can wait. My wife's due date made me get something right away to get ready for the big day
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qatarmallu /forum/post/14240997


then they started to undertand how troublesome it is to edit a AVCHD media, altought video quality is excellent. This happened when one guy has to edit and make copies of his HD footage of his sons birthday. Thats why I personally feel CX-12 facility that it can record MPEG-2 which is so important when i need a format which is consider high quality and easy to edit.

With all due respect to your friends, I think they just didn't try to figure out what their options are. I mean, if all you want to do is make a DVD out of your AVCHD video, there are plenty of options now that do this very easily... in Pinnacle Studio, you drag your clips onto the timeline and click 'create disc', pick DVD format -- how troublesome is that?


MPEG2 is easier to edit as far as computer power is concerned -- it'll render faster, and it'll be faster to add crazy special effects... but SD video is hardly "high quality" -- the difference between SD and HD isn't small, it's bigger than VHS vs. DVD, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qatarmallu /forum/post/14240997


can vouch for the convinience of it . It is inconvinient in handling of still and video intermittently where as i can vouch for shooting a quite no. of gud Quality stills ( in this regards Sony is far better than Canon ) while un interrupted video shooting.

Sony wins in still shots, for sure. The Canon still shots aren't good for anything but displaying on the web, you can't really get any good prints out of them. I'm not crazy about Sony's stills, though, either -- they work up to 5x7 or so, but if you try to blow it up to 8x10 you really start seeing a difference between those shots and a good still camera (we had a discussion on this a few months back on this forum, and I tried printing some shots before I picked a camera to buy). That's good enough for most people, though -- it's good enough for me most of the time, too, not everything needs to be blown up... I do really miss that on the Canon.
 

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What is the bitrate for MPEG2 for the CX12? If it's 25Mbps than that would a be very interesting alternative. If it's the same as MPEG4 why bother since at same bitrate is far inferior...


It's not true that Canon still shots are only good for web... Even 2M framegrabs look good in 4x6 photo print and 5x7 is decent as well.

That said if you care about stills PQ then I would recommend for either cam buying a sub $200 compact camera that will beat both PQ easily (especially in terms of color bleeding that you get with camcorders).


Ignore the resolution numbers... A good 6MP compact typically still beats a 12MP camcorder still...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by matzamiller /forum/post/14241082


Also i found out a minor operational diff in CX12 ( frankly observed while checking from CX7) and HF. Canon u cant shoot when LCD panel in closed position( this is useful when u position the camera and shoot parties in fixed frame) where as Sony it is possible.

It is possible to shoot with the LCD panel closed. Just turn it so the screen faces toward the front then push towards the cam body to close it.


Quote:
I have shot with my HF10 with the screen closed. Frame your shot first with the screen open, turn off camera and close screen. Power back on and hit record. Works for me.

Didn't know that, would have to try it! I hope Canon adds an option to disable standby when lcd is closed in their next firmware upgrade.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV Freak /forum/post/14256190


It is possible to shoot with the LCD panel closed. Just turn it so the screen faces toward the front then push towards the cam body to close it.



Didn't know that, would have to try it! I hope Canon adds an option to disable standby when lcd is closed in their next firmware upgrade.

You can disable standby, however it will not turn off the cam immediately. With default power saver turned on it will turn off after 5 minutes without operation (but that's the same amount of power as 10 minutes standby at 50% power consumption).


Actually I noticed few times before that it was still recording while I closed the LCD panel and I incorrectly assumed I stopped the recording... I could do without that feature since you always have the remote as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by qatarmallu /forum/post/14240997



Regarding Night video/ low light, i personally checked HF with the current sony SR12, from my point of view, Day and Night Video Quality is way better. Now I am eagering for the Sony CX-12 for another comparison.
qatarmallu, I didn't understand your sentence. From your point of view, "Day and Night Video Quality is way better." - On which cam?? The Canon or the Sony? I assume you meant the Sony, but I just wanted to make sure, since saying the Sony is better in low light would be contrary to what I've been reading.


However, I would like for the Sony to be better or at least as good as the Canon in low light because I have my heart set on the Sony CX12 for it's Smile Shutter and manual control knob.

Originally, I wanted the Canon for it's cheaper price, but IMHO, the colors, especially outdoors just did not look as good as the Sony judging by the countless samples and Vimeo vids I've been watching (too cool, bluish, purple fringin).

Also, the fact that the Canon takes "an abnormal amount of time" as quoted from CCI to store still shots, up 15 to 20 seconds, sucks bad and is a deal breaker for me. I discovered this phenomena at Best Buy when I tested the cams out. I took a shot with the Canon and it just sat there for WAY to long before it was ready to take another shot. Wierd.
 

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I am trying to work out the shutter speed specs between sony hdr-cx12 and canon hf100. The canon specs indicate maximum at 1/2000 whereas the sony indicates maximum 1/425 (scene selection). Can someone help me interpret this in terms of performance between the two. This is the deciding factor for me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by janisnotjoplin /forum/post/14460530


I am trying to work out the shutter speed specs between sony hdr-cx12 and canon hf100. The canon specs indicate maximum at 1/2000 whereas the sony indicates maximum 1/425 (scene selection). Can someone help me interpret this in terms of performance between the two. This is the deciding factor for me.

If I am not mistaken, CX12, like CX7 and SR11/12, does not offer manual shutter speed or aperture control. That's why the higher shutter speed is linked with Scene modes. Whereas in Canon, you can use manual control and select the aperture and shutter speed you like just like a digital camera with manual control.


This is one of the reason why I selected Canon. Aperture control gives you some adjustment in the depth of focus; and manual shutter speed is quite useful in low light. Or in action shots when you can use high shutter speed with progressive scan to give you clear frame by frame on frame advance or slow motion (using editing).
 
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