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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I received an email from a NAB show visitor today who had spoken off the record to Canon and was told the company believes a 4K 5D Mark IV would completely overshadow the recently released C100 Mark II and so wouldn’t happen, but that Canon LOG would likely go into the camera to allow shot-matching with the XC10.


So to segment specs based on price, Canon is allegedly sticking to 1080p on future DSLRs. The exception is the 4K XC10 which isn’t a competitor to the C100 Mark II or C300 Mark II as it features a tiny 1″ sensor and fixed camcorder-style zoom lens by comparison.


Someone needs to tell Canon that what every enthusiast wants is a 5D Mark IV with 4K not a small 1″ sensor behind a camcorder zoom.
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/canon-5d-mark-iv-will-be-1080p-with-canon-log/

 

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"Someone needs to tell Canon that what every enthusiast wants is a 5D Mark IV with 4K not a small 1″ sensor behind a camcorder zoom."

Not at all! If their stuff sells, it's fine. If it doesn't sell, that's fine too. It is a great time to buy cameras because there are so many good choices. Joe, I think you've followed this forum as long or longer than me. It has been entertaining to see the parade of great video equipment.

I tried to make the point in another thread that Canon has a great market full of people that buy their stuff and like it. There may not be enough enthusiastic amateur video shooters to please them. The XC10 is aimed at someone, just not us!

Bill
 

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There is a clear market for those sorts of cameras. I think the reason Canon doesn't try, but instead focusses on other niche products, is that they know they cannot compete with cameras like the GH4 and NX1 if they went head to head. They would come third and that would be an embarrassment. So to avoid that they just don't compete at all to save face.

IMO the same reasoning applies with their MILC products.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
The Canon 5D MKII with 1080p video mode shook the video world to it's core when Vincent Laforet uploaded his short film "Reverie" in September 2008 and it knocked my socks off.
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008...h-to-this-blog-and-to-our-industry/#more-1085
http://vincentlaforet.smugmug.com/L...B66B/377930419_LBnzBFV#!i=377930419&k=LBnzBFV
http://vincentlaforet.smugmug.com/gallery/6021407_xEg87/1/#!i=378608891&k=Jd2CT&lb=1&s=A

The Web was buzzing a couple of weeks ago when photographer Vincent LaForet spent a weekend making a short, wordless movie using an early Canon 5D Mark II (an expensive, professional S.L.R.). He hired a couple of models, grabbed a crew, rented a helicopter, pulled together $5,000, and made an absolutely astonishing-looking piece of video.
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/amazing-video-with-a-still-camera/?_r=0

Since then Canon has not come out with anything like that in the under $3K price range . They are making big profits with the C100-C500 line and that is all they care about.
 

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I've never liked using adapters to use EF lenses on other cameras because I lose convenience and functionality. So this announcement comes as good news to me because I've got a big assortment of EF - L series glass to unload since they will get no use on future Canon dslr's, it's an easy decision, if unfortunate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Does the 5D produce the same horrible moire as the cheaper Rebel series? It seems that Canon cannot even figure out 1080p, so 4K is like an unthinkable dream.
My 5DmkII produces unacceptable moire. The mkIII was said to be improved, and magic lantern was said to help but I was so disgusted I never bothered. When I bought the 5DmkII people were praising the video. I think I was the first to complain about it because if I knew about moire, I would have just stayed with the original 5D.

I stayed away from the Gh2,3 and 4 out of fear from my canon experience. The Lx100 is wonderful however.
 

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My 5DmkII produces unacceptable moire. The mkIII was said to be improved, and magic lantern was said to help but I was so disgusted I never bothered. When I bought the 5DmkII people were praising the video. I think I was the first to complain about it because if I knew about moire, I would have just stayed with the original 5D.

I stayed away from the Gh2,3 and 4 out of fear from my canon experience. The Lx100 is wonderful however.
Yep. I bought the EOS M and T4i because people were praising the image, but it is full of aliasing and moire, which is pretty bad in 1080p24 and is terrible in 720p60. I like video quality from the LX100 but it felt too fiddly and contrived feature-wise for me, so I returned it. If only the HDC-SD600 that I own had more bitrate... It produces very detailed 1080p60, but 28 Mbit/s is not enough for busy scenes, which sometimes break into tiles. Still, I would be happy if Canon managed 1080p resolution like in the attached video, with an option to have shallow DOF if needed:

 

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It is a mystery to me why people still shoot video with these cameras when they are so clearly unsuited for it. I bought one back in 2010 and was absolutely shocked by the moire, 12 minute limit and the blank viewfinder in Live View (video) mode. Coming from movie cameras and camcorders, I wondered why people put up with it - but they did.

The GH cameras I bought after I sold the Canon had none of these problems - and led in areas of technical innovation later copied by Canon and Nikon (e.g., Canon swivel screens were at least a year after the GH1; the T3i teleconverter crop mode was a year after GH2 ETC and (slow) video autofocus from the T4i was pitiful compared to what the GH cameras could do).

Nevertheless, GH cameras remained a niche product, disdained by Canon shooters. Until the GH4 included a capability that directly threatened 4K Cinema EOS cameras - a capability that Canon can't add to their DSLRs without cannibalizing sales of their own pro camcorders.

This is Canon's 'emperor has no clothes' moment. Sure they'll continue to sell lots of DSLRs - but many Canon DSLR video shooters have finally figured it out - Canon has very little interest in fixing their moire problem or in providing them with 4K resolution or high frame rates.

On the video side, they are clearly much more interested in selling higher-margin Cinema EOS cameras to Hollywood than video capable DSLRs to hobbyists, amateurs and low budget pros.
 

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The really good thing about Canon video DSLRs is IMHO the phase detection AF. Want to get good IQ to go with that? Then pay $5,000-$16,000 for the C100 mk2 or C300 mk2 and some more for amateurish STM lenses to make use of the PD AF. They don't seem to bother about video on those lower margin DSLRs anymore.
 

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Does the 5D produce the same horrible moire as the cheaper Rebel series? It seems that Canon cannot even figure out 1080p, so 4K is like an unthinkable dream.
My Canon 7D (more-or-less the same vintage as the 5D2) suffered badly from moiré, and you never knew it until after the event. That apart, it produced quite good 1080p video.

When it was announced, I added a Canon 5D3 to my collection -- and yes, that solved the moiré problem. The only problem then was the noticeable softness of the video image -- each and every clip needed a very slight sharpening filter applied in post.

As it became available, I bought an optical anti-aliasing and anti-moiré filter from Mosaic Engineering for the 7D (VAF-7D) which cured the problems.
But then Sony brought out the AX-100 4K (UHD) camcorder -- and the Canon DSLRs are now only used as still cameras.
 

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As a fun side note I can say that the Canons including the eos M are 100% moire free in crop mode.
Please, elaborate.

I googled and read this page: http://filmkit.net/posts/show/4495/...the-canon-600d-is-invaluable?message=cineblah and watched the video, but all I see is a guitar amp zoomed in 3x. Well, if the elements of the picture are 3 times larger this obviously helps with moire, but it does not preserve the same frame size. Am I not getting something?
 

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Please, elaborate.

I googled and read this page: http://filmkit.net/posts/show/4495/...the-canon-600d-is-invaluable?message=cineblah and watched the video, but all I see is a guitar amp zoomed in 3x. Well, if the elements of the picture are 3 times larger this obviously helps with moire, but it does not preserve the same frame size. Am I not getting something?
A joke i think, i have an EOS M and always liked it but to compare the the moire or any part of the PQ to the Panas ive had and own is :eek:

No Joke at all. The EOS M in Crop is 100% More Free. Its in the same class as the 4K AX100, BMPC, GH4, you name it.


I have a building close to me that is the absolute worst patern I know when talking about moire. No fabric or anything comes even close.
I have tested all the cameras that went through my house there and the EOS M is so far the clear winner (haven't checked the D16 yet).
Now shooting in crop mode isn't exactly ideal and bla bla bla. But I haven't said that it was either.


Like I said , A Fun Sidenote that is interesting to me.


Here is an image illustrating the EOS M, not the best picture but Im at work and dont have the full res one here.
Followed by a video of OTHER cameras. I have some video from the EOS M as well and can post it soon.





 
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