[thecodeman]

So the top dogs for Sony and Canon have been announced at CES. I'm looking for a new camcorder and until we get some reviews/hands on, I think this would be a great place to discuss comparisons of these two camcorders.


Here's what I've seen so far:


Canon's pluses:

24mb bit rate

30p / 24p

1/2.6-inch CMOS, RGB Prmary Color Filter Approx. 8.59 Megapixels



Canon minuses:

10x optical zoom

proprietary hot shoe?

No viewfinder

No internal storage / card only.


Sony pluses:

12x optical zoom

viewfinder

240gb internal storage

GPS ( is this even important? Probably not, just a neat feature)

"smooth slow" (just a feature)

1/3.15-inch back-illuminated Exmor-R CMOS sensor 6631K (how well it works?)


Sony minuses:

proprietary hot shoe (ais)?

memory stick - who uses that unless you have a barrage of other Sony stuff?

no bit rate info yet


Anyway, trying to decide between the big two, if it's worth saving the cash for one of these to start recording the new baby when he comes home or to get a HF-11 / SR12 now.


Anyone have any thoughts or agree/disagree with my pluses/minuses? And yes I know, we havent seen them in action yet.

 

[Jim Kiler]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15496333




Sony pluses:


1/3.15-inch back-illuminated Exmor-R CMOS sensor 6631K (how well it works?)

per this article Sony is saying nearly double the sensitivity from the new sensor.


When is your baby due, I have a due date may 31st so hopefully either one of these two camcorders will be dominant. JVC finally joined the AVC ranks but I am not expecting them or Panasonic to be nearly as good as these two vendors.

 

[thecodeman]

He's actually due Feb 28th but they are planning on taking him early, Jan 16th! I have a SD Sony DV camcorder that's biggest feature is widescreen recording. Though viewing the footage from it on my 50" 1080p panasonic makes you a little nauseated.

 

[MomEngineer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15496950


He's actually due Feb 28th but they are planning on taking him early, Jan 16th! I have a SD Sony DV camcorder that's biggest feature is widescreen recording. Though viewing the footage from it on my 50" 1080p panasonic makes you a little nauseated.

I would go ahead and choose between the HF11 or SR12 (both around $850). I wouldn't miss a moment of photos and videos of my kids.


The new Sony's aren't scheduled to be out until March, and the new Canon's are scheduled for February. If you wait six months, you can upgrade your camera with one of the new ones for less than $1000, and you have effectively gotten two cameras for the price of one. (since the retail for the Sony XR520V is about $1500 and the Canon HFS10 is about $1300)


Just a thought -

Pam

 

[xfws]

With the amped-up specs on these newer cams, it does seem like a tough call...


If you're not concerned about all the extras (at least on the newer Canons) like zebra stripes/manual gain control, etc., I think something like the HF11 will be suitable for at least a few years to come.


I'm looking at it this way; if they're still releasing standard definition camcorders, then HD is already a step ahead. The day an image from something like the HF100 becomes the bottom (like what Flip standard definition camcorders are now), that's when I'd be concerned about the image quality of the HD cams that are out now.


btw, codeman, your title says "HF S100", but you describe it as having 32 gig storage. The HF S10 has the internal storage and card capability, the 100 can only record to cards.

 

[MomEngineer]

No, not exactly. What I am saying is if you buy the top of the line now at around $800, and then you wait until Sept or so for the new "top of line" to come down in price - you will basically have two camcorders $1600. Where the Sony's XR520v will be around $1500 on debut.


(Also, I like to have a backup - Murphy's Law.)

-Pam

 

[xfws]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MomEngineer /forum/post/15502075


No, not exactly. What I am saying is if you buy the top of the line now at around $800, and then you wait until Sept or so for the new "top of line" to come down in price - you will basically have two camcorders $1600. Where the Sony's XR520v will be around $1500 on debut.


(Also, I like to have a backup - Murphy's Law.)

-Pam

ahh, I see...



P.S. Thanks, Mom!

 

[MomEngineer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws /forum/post/15502257


ahh, I see...


(I actually deleted that post because I thought I went a bit OT, but thanks for answering.

You don't have to, but if you could delete my post, I'd appreciate it. I went on a Folger's-induced rant and funked-up his comparison thread.

)

No problem - Done deal.

 

[thecodeman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws /forum/post/15501913


With the amped-up specs on these newer cams, it does seem like a tough call...


If you're not concerned about all the extras (at least on the newer Canons) like zebra stripes/manual gain control, etc., I think something like the HF11 will be suitable for at least a few years to come.


I'm looking at it this way; if they're still releasing standard definition camcorders, then HD is already a step ahead. The day an image from something like the HF100 becomes the bottom (like what Flip standard definition camcorders are now), that's when I'd be concerned about the image quality of the HD cams that are out now.


btw, codeman, your title says "HF S100", but you describe it as having 32 gig storage. The HF S10 has the internal storage and card capability, the 100 can only record to cards.

My bad on that. I see a few people going crazy for "zebra stripes". Anyone care to dumb that down for me?

 

[thecodeman]

I think the SR11 might be it for me, considering time-frame, storage capacity, and features. Was looking at the HF100 (same as hf11/hf10 in performance in most cases) but by the time you start looking at storage cards... 32gb class 4 SDHC cards are like $130 on newegg right now. So you'd need about 2 of those to meet the capacity of the SR11, at a cost of $260. Yikes. With the amount of storage on board, I'd never have to buy a memory stick most likely. Authorized reatailer pricing isnt bad, at about half the price of the HDR-XR520V

Not bad to dip your toe in HD waters. I think it makes the most *economical* bang for buck option.

 

[osv]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15507404


I think the SR11 might be it for me, considering time-frame, storage capacity, and features. Was looking at the HF100 (same as hf11/hf10 in performance in most cases) but by the time you start looking at storage cards... 32gb class 4 SDHC cards are like $130 on newegg right now. So you'd need about 2 of those to meet the capacity of the SR11, at a cost of $260.

do you have any idea how much 64 gigs will store? you probably need that about as much as you need a hole in the head


there have been a bunch of 8-gig card sales, class 6 of course, for pretty reasonable... it's a trivial expense, that's going to keep on getting cheaper over time.

 

[xfws]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15507404


I think the SR11 might be it for me, considering time-frame, storage capacity, and features. Was looking at the HF100 (same as hf11/hf10 in performance in most cases) but by the time you start looking at storage cards... 32gb class 4 SDHC cards are like $130 on newegg right now. So you'd need about 2 of those to meet the capacity of the SR11, at a cost of $260. Yikes. With the amount of storage on board, I'd never have to buy a memory stick most likely. Authorized reatailer pricing isnt bad, at about half the price of the HDR-XR520V

Not bad to dip your toe in HD waters. I think it makes the most *economical* bang for buck option.

I just want to point out a 16gb Class 6 SDHC card can be had for $30. You don't have to buy a 32gb card - you just swap out another 16gb card. The other thing is that the Sony propriety memory sticks are going for $100 for 16gb.


I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just clarifying. Whatever you do; flash or HDD make sure you have a method of backing up to external HDD(s) + DVD + whatever else, just because you said that you will be filming your baby and, since it's not tapes, you have to create an (important) archive.

 

[MomEngineer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15507404


I think the SR11 might be it for me, considering time-frame, storage capacity, and features. Was looking at the HF100 (same as hf11/hf10 in performance in most cases) but by the time you start looking at storage cards... 32gb class 4 SDHC cards are like $130 on newegg right now. So you'd need about 2 of those to meet the capacity of the SR11, at a cost of $260. Yikes. With the amount of storage on board, I'd never have to buy a memory stick most likely. Authorized reatailer pricing isnt bad, at about half the price of the HDR-XR520V

Not bad to dip your toe in HD waters. I think it makes the most *economical* bang for buck option.

Have you considered the Canon HG21 - it's about $760 at Amazon.

 

[thecodeman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws /forum/post/15507643


I just want to point out a 16gb Class 6 SDHC card can be had for $30. You don't have to buy a 32gb card - you just swap out another 16gb card. The other thing is that the Sony propriety memory sticks are going for $100 for 16gb.


I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just clarifying. Whatever you do; flash or HDD make sure you have a method of backing up to external HDD(s) + DVD + whatever else, just because you said that you will be filming your baby and, since it's not tapes, you have to create an (important) archive.

that's true about the cards. I have a Terastation that I back up to.

 

[thecodeman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MomEngineer /forum/post/15507824


Have you considered the Canon HG21 - it's about $760 at Amazon.

No I havent, and I must have missed it as there was no review for it on camcorderinfo. What's up with that? Wow, 120GB hdd, 12x optical zoom, viewfinder, 24mbps, same specs as the hf11, you may be a winner!

 

[Ken Ross]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15506134


My bad on that. I see a few people going crazy for "zebra stripes". Anyone care to dumb that down for me?

Zebra stripes is a pro feature found on any prosumer/pro camera. It indicates areas of overexposure that are above a prescribed limit. By clearly seeing where these areas are (in the form of stripes just like a zebra

), it allows you to reduce exposure to properly expose those areas (if it's an important part of the video).

 

[thecodeman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross /forum/post/15508430


Zebra stripes is a pro feature found on any prosumer/pro camera. It indicates areas of overexposure that are above a prescribed limit. By clearly seeing where these areas are (in the form of stripes just like a zebra

), it allows you to reduce exposure to properly expose those areas (if it's an important part of the video).

I see. Is that something that you typically have time to do, say at Disney World? LOL

 

[MomEngineer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thecodeman /forum/post/15508142


No I havent, and I must have missed it as there was no review for it on camcorderinfo. What's up with that? Wow, 120GB hdd, 12x optical zoom, viewfinder, 24mbps, same specs as the hf11, you may be a winner!

I am pretty sure that the HG21 is reviewed at Camcorderinfo.com; and yes, the HG21 has the same optical features as the HF11 - menu too, I believe. Go under camcorder ratings - the HG21 is there.


Alot of us are trying both the HG21 and the SR12. I am trying to make a decision between the two and send one of them back. If money is an issue the HG21 is $100 cheaper than the SR12 and HF11 at amazon.com.

By the way, the HG21 has the zebra stripes option.


Good luck,

Pam

 

[MomEngineer]

Actually the rating is for the HG20 which is the same model, but 60gb HDD and no viewfinder. But again, the optical properties are the same as the HG21.

 

[MomEngineer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MomEngineer /forum/post/15510683


I am pretty sure that the HG21 is reviewed at Camcorderinfo.com; and yes, the HG21 has the same optical features as the HF11 - menu too, I believe. Go under camcorder ratings - the HG21 is there.


Alot of us are trying both the HG21 and the SR12. I am trying to make a decision between the two and send one of them back. If money is an issue the HG21 is $100 cheaper than the SR12 and HF11 at amazon.com.

By the way, the HG21 has the zebra stripes option.


Good luck,

Pam

I made a mistake - it's the SR12 that has the zebra stripe option. That's what happens when you have been testing 2 camcorders for 2 weeks.