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Cartridge Comparison Help

5920 Views 29 Replies 7 Participants Last post by mille162, Mar 3, 2014

mille162

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2014

Looking for some input from anyone who's heard and compared the Denon DL-103R and the Ortofon Quintet Blue. I know the Quintet just came out and started shipping, but hoping maybe someone heard it at a demo event or early release in a dealer somewhere.

I was originally going with Denon model based on a friends set-up and experience using , but after talking to a few people in shops, they've been trying to steer me towards the new Ortofon model.

Other than the published specs, I can't seem to find any direct comparisons

Denon DL-103R Specifications

Output: 0.25 mV
Output impedance: 14ohms
Stylus: 16.5 Micron round tip
Coils: copper (6N)
Frequency range: 20Hz-45kHz
Tracking force: 2.3-2.7g
Compliance 5x10-6cm/dyne
Weight: 8.5g

Ortofon Quintet Blue Specifications

Output voltage at 1 kHz 5 cm/sec: 0.5 mV
Channel balance: 1.5 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz: 21 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz: 14 dB
Frequency range at -3 dB: 20-25.000 Hz
Frequency response 20-20.000 Hz: +/-2.5 dB
Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommended tracking force: 70 μm
Compliance (dynamic, lateral): 15 μm/mN
Stylus type: Nude Elliptical
Stylus tip radius: r/R 8/18 μm
Tracking force range: 2.1-2.5 g (21-25 mN)
Tracking force recommended: 2.3 g (23 mN)
Tracking angle: 20º
Internal impedance, DC resistance: 7 Ohm
Recommended load impedance: 20 Ohm
Cartridge body material: ABS/Aluminium
Coil wire material: Pure 4-nines copper
Cartridge weight: 9 g

Type of music: 90's rock, metal, punk, mostly new 180g 45rpm pressings, some vintage 331/3 in good condition.

Rest of the system: Technics 1210M5g with upgraded components, McIntosh C100 feeding a MC252 into Sonus Faber Concerto Home's.

Interested in hearing your thoughts...

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1 - 20 of 30 Posts

arnyk

· #2 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by mille162 /t/1517171/needle-comparison-help#post_24340844

Looking for some input from anyone who's heard and compared the Denon DL-103R and the Ortofon Quintet Blue. I know the Quintet just came out and started shipping, but hoping maybe someone heard it at a demo event or early release in a dealer somewhere.

I was originally going with Denon model based on a friends set-up and experience using , but after talking to a few people in shops, they've been trying to steer me towards the new Ortofon model.

Other than the published specs, I can't seem to find any direct comparisons
Denon DL-103R Specifications

Output: 0.25 mV

Output impedance: 14ohms

Stylus: 16.5 Micron round tip

Coils: copper (6N)

Frequency range: 20Hz-45kHz

Tracking force: 2.3-2.7g

Compliance 5x10-6cm/dyne

Weight: 8.5g

Ortofon Quintet Blue Specifications

Output voltage at 1 kHz 5 cm/sec: 0.5 mV

Channel balance: 1.5 dB

Channel separation at 1 kHz: 21 dB

Channel separation at 15 kHz: 14 dB

Frequency range at -3 dB: 20-25.000 Hz

Frequency response 20-20.000 Hz: +/-2.5 dB

Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommended tracking force: 70 μm

Compliance (dynamic, lateral): 15 μm/mN

Stylus type: Nude Elliptical

Stylus tip radius: r/R 8/18 μm

Tracking force range: 2.1-2.5 g (21-25 mN)

Tracking force recommended: 2.3 g (23 mN)

Tracking angle: 20º

Internal impedance, DC resistance: 7 Ohm

Recommended load impedance: 20 Ohm

Cartridge body material: ABS/Aluminium

Coil wire material: Pure 4-nines copper

Cartridge weight: 9 g

Type of music: 90's rock, metal, punk, mostly new 180g 45rpm pressings, some vintage 331/3 in good condition.

Rest of the system: Technics 1210M5g with upgraded components, McIntosh C100 feeding a MC252 into Sonus Faber Concerto Home's.

Interested in hearing your thoughts...

You might want to reword your title - in audio terminology its not a needle that you are talking about, its all about cartridges.

My thoughts on cartridges are really pretty simple = Shure M97xe.

mille162

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24342127

You might want to reword your title - in audio terminology its not a needle that you are talking about, its all about cartridges.

My thoughts on cartridges are really pretty simple = Shure M97xe.

lol, thanks arnyk, wasn't paying attention and wrote "needle" as a generic statement

-Ron

Ratman

· #4 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24342127

You might want to reword your title - in audio terminology its not a needle that you are talking about, its all about cartridges.

And... when using a MM or MC cartridge, in audio terminology, it's not a "needle". It's a "stylus".

I personally lean towards Ortofon cartridges.

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mille162

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24342551

And... when using a MM or MC cartridge, in audio terminology, it's not a "needle". It's a "stylus".

I personally lean towards Ortofon cartridges.

Ratman,

Any reason why you'd lean towards Ortofon? I've never used them before and have not heard their cartridges anywhere so I have no info on them other than recent recommendations by salesmen.

commsysman

· #6 · Feb 11, 2014

Ortophon and Grado have several models that are good performers at reasonable prices.

Ratman

· #7 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by mille162 /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24342595

Any reason why you'd lean towards Ortofon? I've never used them before and have not heard their cartridges anywhere so I have no info on them other than recent recommendations by salesmen.

Only because I've used Shure, Audio-Technica and Stanton over the years. I've been quite pleased with the sound and durability of the Ortofon. Just my opinion FWIW.

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A9X-308

· #8 · Feb 11, 2014

The chance of someone hearing the two carts on the same system (TT, arm, phono amp) is fairly low, and becomes almost miniscule when one is new.

I'd go with the Denon because it's a known and respected quantity, and I've also had several different versions of the 103 over the decades and been happy with all of them.

Ratman

· #9 · Feb 11, 2014

So, in other words, just buy a new cartridge I guess.

Some say Shure.... some say Ortofon... some say Denon.... some say Grado.

I'm sure this helps with your question(s).

Here's my additional $.02:

The new cartridge is only as good as the person that properly installs the new cartridge.

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Ratman

· #10 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24343082

The chance of someone hearing the two carts on the same system (TT, arm, phono amp) is fairly low, and becomes almost miniscule when one is new.

I'd go with the Denon because it's a known and respected quantity, and I've also had several different versions of the 103 over the decades and been happy with all of them.

So why stick with Denon just based on known and respected "quantity" (sic) since hearing the difference is so low/miniscule?

Aren't the other cartridge manufacturers known and respected?

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kraut

· #11 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
So why stick with Denon just based on known and respected "quantity" (sic) since hearing the difference is so low/miniscule? wink.gif

Aren't the other cartridge manufacturers known and respected?

Maybe it is the price?

Quote:
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-169805-ortofon-quintet-blue-mc-phono-cartridge.aspx

Price: $449.00

Quote:
http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL103

Only $229.00

The latter I never bought for more than 180$.

Why would I spent anymore for a good cartridge than is necessary if the differences are largely inaudible?

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Ratman

· #12 · Feb 11, 2014

But... there's been no mention about price(s) by the OP. I'm sure if one looks hard enough they can get low(er) prices.

I merely pointed out my opinion and perhaps other options for the OP to consider. Sorry if I offended Denon owners, but it's not the only cartridge available.

kraut

· #13 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Sorry if I offended Denon owners, but it's not the only cartridge available.

I for one am not offended, but having tried cartridges from 99 to 599$ (the latter a Shure 500 Ultra) I found the Denon to be the one with the flattest response and the least amount of distortion - checked with an RTA (the behringer DEQ) and a test record; with a great dynamic range - up to 12dB above. At a price that one cannot ignore for those on a limited budget. Fishing gear is more important to me....

Ratman

· #14 · Feb 11, 2014

If I said (or someone else) said they tried/used/tested a particular make cartridge on this or any forum, does that make it gospel?

Again... the OP made no mention about budget.

If you insist in being a stickler about your findings, post the testing equipment used, the comparison results and the TT, arm, etc. etc.....

I like deep sea fishing myself.

A9X-308

· #15 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help/0_50#post_24343691

So why stick with Denon just based on known and respected "quantity" (sic) since hearing the difference is so low/miniscule?

People who whinge about grammar usually have nothing substantive to add, other than to moan about something irrelevant.

Besides, you missed my point: not that the sound between them is miniscule (I have not used the Ortofon, but with all electromechanical transducers in a system they can very markedly in terms of linearity), but the chances of someone having actually heard the two in the same system since one is so new. I have also had at least 6 103's and still have 3 different versions and as I am happy with their good performance, I am confident to give them a recommendation based on that. It is far from the most expensive cart I own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help/0_50#post_24343691

Aren't the other cartridge manufacturers known and respected?

Yes, I never indicated anything otherwise. The Ortofon mentioned in this thread is apparently new, so there is no guarantee it will be a good performer. The Denon has been around in various models for decades because it is a good performer, where there is no guarantee a new model will be, either good, or around long. I did not look at the price but if the 2x difference someone else mentioned earlier is correct, then I would lean towards the one with the reputation.

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kraut

· #16 · Feb 11, 2014

My tests were done to satisfy my curiosity alone. I have used Goldring 1042, Ortofon X5MC. X3 MC, Shure V15VXMR, Denon DL 103, Denon DL 160, Shure Ultra 500, Shure M75 and a few others...

I am a landlubber, and do mostly lake fishing. Next goal getting into fly fishing ..dreaming about spring lake fishing at -26C and the boat covered with snow.....

Ratman

· #17 · Feb 11, 2014

Yeah... and there are other alternative Ortofon models that are not "new" but still respected and priced lower.

Quote:
People who whinge about grammar usually have nothing substantive to add, other than to ***** about something irrelevant.

People who get overly sensitive about a correction usually have personal issues that should be addressed by a professional. IMHO, if one can't use proper grammar, why should one trust a technical statement/opinion?

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Ratman

· #18 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help#post_24344151

My tests were done to satisfy my curiosity alone. I have used Goldring 1042, Ortofon X5MC. X3 MC, Shure V15VXMR, Denon DL 103, Denon DL 160, Shure Ultra 500, Shure M75 and a few others...

So then (in your personal opinion and testing results?), the Denon DL103 is the best cartridge for the price.

If I said I tested all of the same cartridges and found the Stanton 681EEE the best... does that make my opinion more credible?

I just said that I'd personally lean to Ortofon. I didn't expect a dogpile of "experts".

If you want to get a bang for the buck... go with Arnyk's suggestion:
http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB

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A9X-308

· #19 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help/0_50#post_24344158

Yeah... and there are other alternative Ortofon models that are not "new" but still respected and priced lower.

I never said there weren't or that the OP shouldn't buy one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help/0_50#post_24344158

People who get overly sensitive about a correction usually have personal issues that should be addressed by a professional.

Good grief, stop projecting. I have seen you add nothing substantive to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /t/1517171/cartridge-comparison-help/0_50#post_24344158

IMHO, if one can't use proper grammar, why should one trust a technical statement/opinion?

Minor grammatical errors do not make any difference to a technical point.

kraut

· #20 · Feb 11, 2014

Quote:
I just said that I'd personally lean to Ortofon

And I do not have a problem with that.

Quote:
Interested in hearing your thoughts...

that is what I did, including mentioning the apparently unmentionable....price.

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

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