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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was looking at Denon A/V receivers on Amazon, since Amazon is listed as an authorized Denon seller. But, I noticed that the amp would be sent from another company, not Amazon directly.


I wrote Denon requesting clarification as to whether the warranty would be considered valid. I received this response:

Response (Michael DeFilippo) - 02/11/2010 04:56 PM

The warranty is valid only if purchased from Amazon. If it's shipping from a different company the warranty is not valid. This is tricky because Amazon sells products and they also have other dealers selling through their site. Amazon themselves are authorized but bigvalue.com is not.


So, just a warning to be careful when ordering from on-line sellers that they, themselves, ship the product and not a third party. It would probably be worthwhile to check with Denon, first, if you're planning to buy a Denon product.
 

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This is a great warning to anyone who would buy a Denon product. Their customer-unfriendly warranty support policy, which requires individuals to be veritable supply chain detectives, can be invoked at any time, enabling them to deny support.


They should work toward tightening up their distribution channels rather than victimizing their customers.


Epic fail, Denon.
 

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As a denon owner i agree with boblinds, how can they deny warranty based on the fact where you bought it?

I'm sure some people can come up with some reasons, makes no sense nonetheless.


I can understand them not warranting foreign models or whatever, but normal legit local ware should always have warranty.
 

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Denon cannot control Amazon..

Amazon has much bigger muscle/leverage, if the sales invoice is billed through Amazon than the seller is Amazon and Denon must honor the warranty especially if Amazon is an authorized internet seller for Denon products.


Bottom line is that the responsibility/burden lies with Denon, they have chosen to have a wide range of sellers both direct and internet to try and catch Yamaha for the biggest market share. But unfortunately they have lost control of their distribution channels..


We know of one Denon distributor in SoCal that sells the Denon products @ 37% off MSRP, no questions asked. Other authorized Denon dealers constantly complain about this situation but in the end Denon just turns a deaf ear as they just want to pump up their max sales.


Just my $0.01..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I know of some companies that sell Denon at a discount. Regardles of how we may feel, Denon can set their own policy. I don't agree with it but I don't see what I (or we) can do. I paid over $5,000 for my last Denon product, but based on their warranty position, my next product will be from one of their competitors.


Not my problem any more. It's Denon's (if they want to address it).


Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Robert


I understand that Amazon is clear about shipping through 3rd parties. The main problem for me is that Denon lists Amazon as an authorized seller, and doesn't say anything on their website about warranties vis-a-vis third-parties using Amazon to sell their wares. Also, Amazon doesn't send a big flag warning you to check for valid warranties if the sale is through a third party.


Given the cost of Denon products, this is not a minor failing to me. The reseller notice is all to easy to miss, especially if - like me - you're used to buying from Amazon and expecting your purchase to be honored by their terms and the purchase option shows the 1- or 2-day click purchase option.


In any event, I'd buy the Denon product with Amex, which would add a year to the mfrg's warranty. Still, my older Denon AVR-5803 was updated by Denon for a reasonable $100. Had I bought the receiver through Amazon, with their current reseller, I would not have been able to get that upgrade.


Again, my message was not to avoid Amazon or any other on-line reseller. It was simply to check with Denon to ensure your product would be covered by Denon's warranty.
 

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I always thought it was obvious whether or not you were buying directly from Amazon. I understand that some people may be less clever than I am...and I "Pity the Fools" (tm)


Maybe there's a valid point here being made, that Amazon should pop up some sort of warranty warning.


I have what may be a grey market Z7, but at least I have a valid dealer invoice for it, from an authorized dealer (which someone suggested that if I used, I was unethical - how am I to know exactly how the supply chain worked, I was told that the company I bought from is directly affiliated with the authorized dealer, who am I to argue?)
 

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Quote:
All you have to do is watch for these little words:


"Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."


What is so hard about that?

The issue isn't so much that buyers can't figure out who's selling what. The issue is that Denon is screwing its customers by expecting them to be their sales channel police, and not standing behind their products. As a manufacturer, Denon should shoulder the responsibility for their distribution issues, and not force it upon their customers. They're obviously FAR more interested in maintaining dealer loyalty than they are customer loyalty.
 

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Sales channel police? Hardly. Of the Denon Authorized e-tailers, Amazon is the only one that doesn't also sell what they advertise, and as several have already pointed out, it's fairly obvious to know when Amazon is and is not the seller. When they are the warranty is valid and when they're not, it isn't. Not too difficult.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cpto /forum/post/18126736


I know of some companies that sell Denon at a discount. Regardles of how we may feel, Denon can set their own policy. I don't agree with it but I don't see what I (or we) can do. I paid over $5,000 for my last Denon product, but based on their warranty position, my next product will be from one of their competitors.

At least 1/2 of the authorized e-tailers sell Denon AVRs at below MSRP and at your level, $100's of dollars less. Among other requirements, to be an authorized vendor, the vendor must purchase the Denon products directly from Denon, rather than from a third party. The trick is to check the Denon website though as some e-tailers (eg. Overstock.com) indicate the Denon warranty is valid when in fact it is not while others offer their own warranty which allows you to still use Denon Authorized repair centers with all repair costs paid for by the vendor.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code /forum/post/18125861



We know of one Denon distributor in SoCal that sells the Denon products @ 37% off MSRP, no questions asked. Other authorized Denon dealers constantly complain about this situation but in the end Denon just turns a deaf ear as they just want to pump up their max sales.


Just my $0.01..


I'm in LA, just wondering who this is?

(or does that fall under the "no price discussion" rule, if so feel free to PM me.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpto /forum/post/18126736


I know of some companies that sell Denon at a discount. Regardles of how we may feel, Denon can set their own policy. I don't agree with it but I don't see what I (or we) can do. I paid over $5,000 for my last Denon product, but based on their warranty position, my next product will be from one of their competitors.


Not my problem any more. It's Denon's (if they want to address it).


Rick

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownlogic /forum/post/18129610


I'm in LA, just wondering who this is?

(or does that fall under the "no price discussion" rule, if so feel free to PM me.)

Ditto
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpto /forum/post/18124238


I wrote Denon requesting clarification as to whether the warranty would be considered valid. I received this response:


Response (Michael DeFilippo) - 02/11/2010 04:56 PM

"The warranty is valid only if purchased from Amazon. If it's shipping from a different company the warranty is not valid. This is tricky because Amazon sells products and they also have other dealers selling through their site. Amazon themselves are authorized but bigvalue.com is not."

So, the thread title should have been 'Caution: Denon advised me to be careful when ordering on Amazon' (not 'from')
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boblinds /forum/post/18127482


The issue isn't so much that buyers can't figure out who's selling what. The issue is that Denon is screwing its customers by expecting them to be their sales channel police, and not standing behind their products. As a manufacturer, Denon should shoulder the responsibility for their distribution issues, and not force it upon their customers. They're obviously FAR more interested in maintaining dealer loyalty than they are customer loyalty.

In their favor, they are not the only manufacturer with "authorized dealer" policies. As messed up as this policy is, it is still fairly common in electronics.
 

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I am still questioning the validity of these exlusions when it comes to Warranty. The products have serial numbers and can easily be traced as original products or not.


The uniform commercial code gives consumers protection for implied warranty basically that the products can do what they are supposed to do in a performance period that can be expected. That warranty has to be fulfilled by somebody. Maybe it is the store that sells the product or it is the manufacturer.


I have filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission basically requesting clarification. The company I selected to complain about is Pioneer that has similiar policies
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/18140193


In their favor, they are not the only manufacturer with "authorized dealer" policies. As messed up as this policy is, it is still fairly common in electronics.


That is true and when combined with the fact that it's plainly states if Amazon or someone else is the seller...I don't see this as an issue. Can someone make a mistake, certainly, but I wouldn't say Amazon or Denon have any fault in this policy. Nothing they are doing vs other's who list Amazon as an authorized seller puts them at a competitive disadvantage (since this same policy would be in place for Onkyo etc).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code /forum/post/18125861


Denon cannot control Amazon..

Amazon has much bigger muscle/leverage, if the sales invoice is billed through Amazon than the seller is Amazon and Denon must honor the warranty especially if Amazon is an authorized internet seller for Denon products.


Bottom line is that the responsibility/burden lies with Denon, they have chosen to have a wide range of sellers both direct and internet to try and catch Yamaha for the biggest market share. But unfortunately they have lost control of their distribution channels..


We know of one Denon distributor in SoCal that sells the Denon products @ 37% off MSRP, no questions asked. Other authorized Denon dealers constantly complain about this situation but in the end Denon just turns a deaf ear as they just want to pump up their max sales.


Just my $0.01..

A manufacturer can not (and should not) force a company to sell at a certain price... doing so can keep prices artificially high, much to the detriment to the consumer. What a manufacturer CAN do, is prevent a seller from advertising prices below a certain amount.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A couple of people have emailed me asking if this thread was a price discussion.


No, it wasn't meant to be, nor is it a criticism of either Denon or Amazon. I simply checked to see if a warranty was valid if an item was purchased at the Amazon site but was shipped from another company. I wasn't clear on warranty coverage and asked Denon to clarify. They did, and I just put this thread out there to caution others, since it was not intuitively obvious to me that not all companies fell under the Amazon umbrella vis-a-vis authorized resellers and warranties.


Just trying to let others know that it's worthwhile checking with the manufacturer to ensure you're OK on their warranty coverage before spending a chunk of change. That's it. No hidden agenda.


Rick
 
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