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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've just switched to a Radeon VE but I am stumped at what the correct definition for dual-display set up should be. I've got my D-ILA projector attached to the VGA port and an analog LCD monitor on the DVI port (with analog adapter).


The file attached is a zipped Wordpad document with some screen shots of the "Displays" tab available from "Display Properties->Settings->Advanced" and also the "Settings" tab itself.


In this setup I've got both monitors defined with a Screen Area of 1360x1024. But the Ati Monitors shown on the "Displays" tab where I would create Schemes shows only 1280x1024 for both.


What's worse, Win98SE is doing virtual desktop on both displays -- my analog LCD monitor and my DILA projector. I understand the LCD monitor since its native resolution is 1280x1024. But the D-ILA projector is native 1365x1024, resize is OFF, source is SXGA3, and the desktop fills the screen. But if I mouse off to the side, it VDs wrapping the 1360-wide desktop around the other side !


Finally, when I play PowerDVD (2.55) it behaves as though "full screen" means 1280x1024 -- leaving me about 80 pixels of dark screen where the dvd image won't expand into.


So wherever PowerDVD (and the Ati player is the same) looks for the Windows desktop resolution, it is finding 1280x1024. Why ??


I am using a DILA monitor file that Mark Rehjon posted a long time ago, Radeon driver 7009 I think (I tried 7189 with no change so went back to what came with the card). I've also got the latest Powerstrip, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.


What I'd really like is to be able to define schemes with the D-ILA always at 1360x1024, the LCD always at 1024x768, and just switch which one is the primary display. In Projector scheme: desktop at 1360x1024 with desktop extended onto the 1024x768 LCD monitor. In monitor scheme: desktop at 1024x768 with desktop extended onto 1360x1024 projector (or alternatively, with projector disabled in this scheme).


Can anybody tell me what I am doing wrong ? Does anybody have a setup like this that would like to e-mail me screen shots and driver version numbers ? If so, feel free to e-mail [email protected]


That is my work e-mail, so I won't be able to test right away, but I will be able to ponder and do faster downloads of any drivers you suggest.

 

radeon pics.zip 65.4111328125k . file
 

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Dreamer, I don't know if your card is the same but on my Radeon 64mb VIVO if you use the TV out the card defaults to the TV setting so it can display the tv and monitor desktops. Apparently the card is incapable of running two different resolutions on the two displays. I'm just wondering if the VE has the same limitations. If so then there's not alot you can do about it. Oh nearly forgot. The VIVO does the same as your VE in as much as, as soon you enable both displays, regardless of their individual settings, they both show the same resolution and refresh rates.
 

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Hi dreamer,


In Win98SE, try the 7140 drivers for the VE. I don't use Win98SE anymore but It worked well without the virtual desktop on your DILA. The VE is very different in that drivers that work for other Radeons will not work well with the VE. For WinMe, CCLAY and I use/have used the 7143 drivers with no virtual desktop on the DILA but you do get a VD on your monitor. If at first you still get a VD on your DILA using the above drivers, try a different monitor inf file like the SuperVGA or Sony GDM?900 file but I am using a DILA.inf file with good success. You are using Powerstrip for to add custom resolutions and timings, right?


I do not "extend" my desktop, only clone the desktop to the 2 devices. I would not recommend extending the desktop when you play your movies on the DILA, just use the projector only with the overlay active on that.



Rick
 

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Hey Dreamer,


Chris saved my bacon after he recommended a VE to me and I encountered the same problem.


There is a bug in how the VE accepts custom T&R. This is how you work around it:


Delete all the custom T&R.

Reboot.

Add the custom T&R again using Powerstrip but change the vertical refresh rate to 60 before you finalize. The VE will then accept the new T&R and this will be reflected under display. You can then adjust the refresh rate as desired and it will stay.


He talked me through this on the phone. It works with 98SE and driver 7143. Use the DVI out as a clone, and this will remain with a virtual desktop. Make sure your monitor is set to 1600 X 1200 or higher.


Good luck and hold your mouth just right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys. I am downloading the 7140 driver now. All 13+MB of it. :)


Should I be setting the resolution in Display properties to 1360x1024 before I set up anyhing in Powerstrip ? Or will I even have them available before they exist in Powerstrip ?


What is the proper sequence of events ? Set resolution and apply in Powerstrip, then go into "Displays" and set which monitor should be primary and save the Scheme ? Then go out to Powerstrip and change resolution and apply, then go back into "Displays", set which is primary, and save as another scheme ?


When the primary is the LCD monitor, I really need resolution to be 1024x768 -- it is just too hard on the eyes otherwise.


Should I not be bothered by the 1280x1024 showing up under the two Monitors on the "Displays" tab ? Or if I have it right, should they actually say 1360x1024 as I expected when I've got Powerstrip T&R applied to that ?


At one point, I had both monitor and DILA showing an image (albeit doing VD on both) and the "Displays" tab wouldn't allow me to create a scheme. It told me that I first needed to have two displays attached. :D Looking up at both, I was really scratching my head. I asked Chris (on Halloween) before I bought the VE. He PROMISED that his VE and Powerstrip setup was not haunted. I'm starting to wonder ...
 

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Kirk,


Was that on HALLOWEEN??? Uh oh! I don't think I was myself that night...............:D


Ok, really, there is a slight trick to this. I'm not sure if it has only to do with the DILA, but Mr. Bad Dog is right, there is a method.


Hang tight whilst I try to compile this correctly.


Chris
 

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Kirk,


Ok, first of all, follow this guide for cleaning out your old drivers. Yes, it's an old post, but it's still one of the most complete I've seen. Follow it to the "T", with exception to the "tweaks" at the end. I'm sure you're not new to this, but still...............:)


The absolute last thing you want to do is set up your schemes, so forget that til' last.


After you get a clean driver install, and I think the 7143s apply well if you can find them still, change you monitor driver to the standard Windows Super VGA 1600 x 1200. This will ensure that your system will accept the resolutions that you'll be loading shortly. You can of course try the others but personally I've never been at a loss with the standard Win driver.


As Rick says, make SURE that "extend desktop" is NOT enabled. I actually think that this is permanently greyed out when you switch to the higher drivers but can't swear to that so make SURE.


Then, as Chip says, go thru Pstrip and delete ALL the previously saved resolutions that you may have. This is REALLY important, so much so that if you have a lot of custom stuff in there, you might just want to re-install the latest version and start fresh. Confirm by right clicking the monitor icon in the taskbar to make sure there are NO custom resolutions in there. Reboot if you have to, to make sure.


I'll back up a little here. This should all be done while viewing thru the DILA hooked to the primary VGA(as I think you have) and having the second monitor hooked up as well, even though your not getting any image on it yet. The standard default for the VE is "default single display". That means only one visual for now, the DILA. Setting the clone modes will come later. Another note: you should be in a VGA resolution now, like 640 x 480 or 800 x 600, NOT a custom resolution.


Ok, when you've gotten to this point, you can go into Pstrip/display profiles/configure/Avanced timing options/custom resolutions(make sure you check "lock total geometry"), then pick your predefined DILA resolution, starting of course with 1360 x 1024. Stay in True Color.


Here's where the trick is. The standard default is 72Hz vertical refresh. CHANGE THIS to 60Hz, then click OK. If it asks for a reboot, then reboot, keeping in mind that you'll probably return to a VGA desktop, assuming you don't have Pstrip startup at bootup.


You should then be able to right click your monitor icon in the lower right taskbar and see your new 1360 x 1024 resolution.


Hopefully, you'll click on it and have a non VD desktop. If so, then you can add the other DILA resolutions(if you have the Panamorph, you only need the one) and away you go.


Modify the "refresh rate" as you see fit by going back into Pstrip/display profiles/configure/Avanced timing options/custom resolutions and "bumping up" the rate click at a time. I tried to go straight to the 73.xxx refresh rate once by typing it in to the box and clicking "OK", but it crashed hard, so be safe and do it one click at a time. I personally like the 73.xxx or higher so that the DILA syncs to SXGA3 consistently. What's neat is knowing that you can set lower refresh rates to make the DILA sync to a lower SXGA for different applicatios, such as 4:3 DVDs.


If you've gotten this far on the first try, you're a wiz. :)


The schemes are actually pretty easy.


One big thing to remember. You cannot have two different resolutions on each monitor at the same time. One res goes with both displays. If you are in a higher res than your LCD can go, it will VD. Anything equal or less than, and your LCD should be correctly displayed. Not a problem because of the ease of switching "modes" via the hotkeys on your desktop(or Pronto).


Go back to a 800 x 600 mode, the turn both monitors on and go into Properties/Settings/Advanced/Displays and see that your default setting is "single display". Then just "play" a bit with the icons to enable the second monitor. You should be able to have BOTH monitors on at the same time, have only the DILA on by itself, or only the LCD on by itself. As you find each one, "save" these and name them as you see fit. I have "G11" primary", "monitor primary" and "clone", which is both on but the overlay will go to the G11 as it is on the primary VGA of the VE card.


I hope this is helpful. :)


Chris
 

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"You cannot have two different resolutions on each monitor at the same time. One res goes with both displays."


I should rephrase that to "I can't get different resolutions on each monitor".


Ashley of Powerstrip has said that there is a way, a certain "Radeon VE" selection somewhere in Pstrip, but I haven't tried hard to find it, mostly because I really don't have a need to do seperate resolutions. In all reality for me, I'm not in "clone" mode much. I'm either in G11 primary or monitor primary since the overlay isn't available on both monitors at once, like the GF2 Twin View was.


Chris
 

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I have been running into problems with Radeon VE getting the second monitor to work. My No. 1 monitor is a Sony 1272 FP and the second is an NEC 17" CRT monitor. I get a picture during boot up and then the 17" monitor clicks off. Do the same basic rules that have been described in this thread apply when using a CRT FP or do I have to take any different steps? Obviously I would not have to be as concerned with a specific resolution setting.


Also, are the 7189 drivers not recommended for the VE?


Any help you can give would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Chris,


Well ... things didn't work out as described.


With both the 7140 and 7143 drivers, I followed all instructions to a 'T' in removing and installing, but for some reason the Radeon 7000/VE was not listed in drivers I downloaded.


I only had choices like RADEON SDR, RADEON DDR, RV100, RV200, RADEON ALL-IN-WONDER. Tried all of them (except AIW), with a complete uninstall, registry clean-up, ati*.inf cleanup in between loads. In every case, Display Properties gave me a message saying it was unable change the resolution from 640x480 to anything else at all and to check my hardware in Device Properties.


Finally I went back to the 7189 drivers and this time I was able to make things work following your instructions above.


Except:


1) I never lost either display. Both monitors were always showing a clone image even when coming up with just the Standard VGA driver. Only after disabling a monitor in the Ati "Display" tab would a monitor go dardk.


2) Extend Desktop is NOT greyed out in the 7189 driver, but I left it unchecked.


3) You didn't say how to delete the Pstrip custom T&Rs, and just removing them from 'user defined' list didn't get rid of them. So I uninstalled Pstrip, cleaned out the registry of all Entech and Powerstrip and Pstrip keys, then re-installed and it came up with no custom resolutions.


4) Apparently, one secret is to be in a standard VGA resolution while trying to set up a scheme where the primary display is to change. If you try to do this while in a custom T&R, the primary display (and hence the overlay) doesn't switch. After the scheme is defined, it will switch in any resolution. Thanks, Chris, I would never have thought of that ! The schemes also work for some reason when hitting "OK" in the "Displays" tab, but even though the ATI icon is running on the taskbar ... hot-keys are ignored.


5) Somehow I managed to get my LCD monitor set to 1024x768 completely unintentionally. So the 1360x1024 desktop requires quite a bit of scrolling around in VD mode.



6) The Pstrip 1360x1024 (DILA) resolution that comes with Pstrip just doesn't work right on my G1000 for some reason. It used to work correctly with my GeForce-based ASUS V6600, but not with the Radeon VE. The supposedly 1360 horizontal pixels were being squeezed into about 1280 pixels of my G1000, it looked like. I had to "grow" the screen size in Pstrip to fill out the D-ILA panels. This left me with very odd numbers for front porch, back porch, sync width, and total pixels -- my total pixels was something like 1632. I also had to adjust the vertical refresh to keep the G1000 from "collaging" the image. I ended up with 72.045 or something.


I apologize for not having the exact numbers or another screen shot. It was 2AM by the time I got full D-ILA panel resolution. I'll edit this post later from home and see if I can attach a zipped doc with screen-shots like I did above.


All-in-all, I've got very funny numbers in Pstrip, but text on my D-ILA has never been sharper. I have no Virtual Desktopping on the D-ILA, either. So I've accomplished most of what I was after. Unless something goes wiggy on it, I think I'll leave it alone until after the Thanksgiving demos to friends and family.


Thanks everyone for the advice :D


(But I still think my Radeon VE is haunted.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bill,


What resolution did you have set ? If you exceed to NEC monitor's supported resolution and refresh rate then it may go dark.


The other possibility is that your VE really is defaulting to "default to single display" in the Schemes, or else you have actually created a scheme with the second monitor disabled (red corner tab).


It certainly takes more fiddling than I was expecting.
 

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I had some luck last night installing the 7189 drivers and following some of the instructions in this post. I was unable to remove the custom resolutions in powerstrip and wanted to avoid uninstalling it. I did change the monitor settings to super vga and got both my FP and 17" monitor to display 960 x 540p at approximately 72 hz, and was careful to keep both the FP and the monitor at the same resolution. I did switch to 6o hz and then stepped it up to about 72 and both monitors stayed on.


One thing I did which was counter-intuitive for me, is that I did not enable dual monitor support in powerstrip.


I am going to play with some higher resolutions tonight and see how it goes. The only real problem I seem to be having now is getting the yxy settings to stick--they don't seem to want to save right.


With luck, it will keep on working.
 

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Sounds like you guys are getting the hang of it. :)


When you delete the custom resolutions in Pstrip, you're actually deleting them from showing up in your available resolutions that you see when you click the lower right monitor icon in your taskbar. The actual Pstrip DILA resolutions will always be shown in the choices of resolutions from within Pstrip, if that makes any sense. The idea is to start fresh with just the standard Windows resolutions available in that icon, nothing else. If you do not do this, you'll have nothing but trouble trying to get the 1360 x1024 resolution without having VD.


Also remember that everytime you switch drivers, you lose the schemes. I also seem to remember losing my Pstrip resolutions, but it's been so long since I've switched drivers............


Bill, I clicked on "dual monitor support" once in Pstrip and all heck broke loose. My screens went whack and it took me about a half hour to get them back. I'm sure there's a useful purpose for this but I haven't bothered to try it again since.


This might be trivial, but I thought it worth mentioning:


After you get set up, go thru your entire PC and make a list of all the hotkeys you have.


With all the hotkey commands available, Dilard, Pstrip desktop resolutions, ATI player, VE schemes, etc., there's huge possibility for conflict in hotkey commands. I had about four that I had to modify from their defaults because they shared the same Ctrl-Alt-xxx.


One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post:


I had nothing but trouble with the Hydravision part of the software. Do yourself a favor and dump it all. The ONLY thing you really need is the 4.1 player itself. What I ended up doing is scrapping the whole enchilada, registry and all, downloaded the 4.1 player only from the ATI website , installed the downloaded file using the original disc(for the CD key) and it made all the difference in the world. Ultimately, I think anyone using the VE should do this.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I apologize for not posting the odd T&R numbers I had.


Two nights ago I finally had everything working as described above, and even switched resolutions several times. I'm sure of it. :confused:


Last night I used a Pstrip icon to switch to 1024x768 and ended up back at square one. :mad:


I'm back to Virtual Desktop on the DILA, the overlay appears to be only 1280 pixels wide when using PowerDVD and DScaler, and a 1360x1024 desktop was squeezed into about 1280x1024 even with my odd T&R that worked the night before. :eek:


Chris, what is your "Horizontal Position" number on your D-ILA ? Mine is over 100 -- can't remember positive or negative right now. Would you recommend setting position, tracking and phase to zero on the DILA as a starting point before tuning in Pstrip ?


Could I have a DirectX problem ? I've never actually downloaded and installed DirectX 8.0, although I've had messages pop up that made me think some game or the Radeon driver itself was installing it. :confused:


A little more of this and I'm gonna rip this thing out and go back to my GeForce.


Frustration level: HIGH
 

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Kirk,


What drivers are you currently using? I'm sorry to say I don't know of the stability of any of the higher drivers over 7143.


Was the Pstrip icon you used an old icon, or one that you created after everything else?


Horizontal position, pixel clock, tracking won't make a difference in the Pstrip set ups, but for what it's worth, my tracking is 24, phase around -13 and H Pos is way down there for 16:9(inverted Pj), around 34 for 4:3.


Having the latest DX would never hurt, but I don't think it's your problem.


I know it's a pain, but try the clean 4.1 player install as mentioned above. It really cleans things up. I had nothing but trouble until I did this.


Don't give up, buddy. It can and will work. Try to find the 7143 drivers. If all else fails, I can put them on a CD and send them to you. I know some of the higher drivers will work, I just don't know which ones. Sorry.


Try this once more:


Go into Pstrip's custom resolutions and this time make sure you click "user defined", then find any resolutions with a 1360 in it and "remove" them. Restart and again make sure they're not in the taskbar icon. This step is VERY important.


Then add them again. This time, leave the 1360 x 768 at 60Hz so that the DILA syncs to SXGA1, not 3. Add your 1360 x 1024 at 60 Hz, make sure it doesn't VD, then go above 73Hz so that it'll sync to SXGA3. Make sure that you're in "Auto" on the DILA. Get rid of your Pstrip hotkeys before you do all this and add them AFTER you get rid of the VD problem.


It's worth it, really it is. :D


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Chris,


I not only deleted all old icons and resolutions from Powerstrip, I uninstalled Powerstrip and scoured the registry of everthing Entech and Powerstrip before re-installing.


The above tirade is with the 7189 drivers.


I have the 7143 drivers and I can try them again, but last time Windows didn't find anything to match my hardware other than a driver for an RV100. The 7189 at least shows the VE as a compatible device. Last time the 7143 installed (without anyhing saying VE) but Display Properties reported it was unable to change the resolution. I was stuck in 640x480.


I got the 7143 from the Rage3D gamers website.


You say a clean download of the 4.1 player helps ? I didn't install anything but the display driver during this last set of trials. No ATI Player at all. No Hydravision, no Media Center. The 4.1 player doesn't appear to be available for download -- the website says it is, but there is no link to a download.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
and also the failure that happens using the 7143 drivers hen trying to set a resolution using Control panel-->Display-->Settings


Yet Powerstrip has no trouble changing the resolution.


Notice the small porch numbers on the horizontal geometry. And that I get severe banding above 60hz vertical refresh. Odd that others don't seem to have this problem and can use a 72,73,or even 75 refresh.

 

failure 7143.zip 57.3623046875k . file
 

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Kirk,


"RV100" is exactly what you get with the 7143s. Probably because this was a beta driver.


The 4.1 player used to be there. I'll look when I get home for the link and send it to you. I'll also e-mail you my screenshots of various things for you to compare.


Were you in clone mode when you were trying to switch using the Windows Display Settings box?


If you would, send me an e-mail so I'll have an return address.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Chris,


Yes, I was in clone mode. I have stayed away from extended desktop and I got this error message in Windows Display Settings before I tried to mess with anything in the Advanced-->Displays as far as enabling or making changes to which monitor was Primary and Secondary.


Basically, I had the same image on both DILA and LCD and DILA was primary because it is on the VGA port (I guess). The overlay was on the DILA when I tested PowerDVD, anyway.


This e-mail is my office, but I have my mailserver set up to send copies of everything to my home account.

[email protected]


I wish I had a digital camera so I could show what the image on the DILA looks like, but I don't.


Last night I got back to where I was Tuesday: No VD on DILA, 1360x1024 desktop, VD on LCD monitor. If I use the ATI hotkey to switch which monitor is primary, when I switch back to the DILA, the resolution is 1360x1024 but only partially fills the DILA panels. If I use the Pstrip 1360x1024 customer T&R I posted pics of, then I'm good on the DILA again. I did this several times and re-booted and it all stuck. But ... I did all that Tuesday and on Wednesday couldn't repeat. So I'll see if it sticks this time. But the 60hz refresh is not really optimal.
 
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